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  1. #1
    Senior Member Marrock's Avatar
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    Crank puller for an old Moto.

    I have a '76 Moto Super Mirage and I need to get into the bottom bracket, it looks like the fixed cup got itself slightly crossthreaded way back in 1976 and I'd like to try to sort it out

    Can anyone recommend a decent puller that I wont have to sell the bike to pay for and maybe an easy way to deal with that lockring and cup?

    If someone in the area of northern NJ could loan me a few tools for the weekend, that would be perfect...

    I'm just fishing here but I figure it can't hurt to ask, so far the C&V crew has been unnaturally helpful to me and mine over the past few months.
    "Engineering! It's like math, but louder."

  2. #2
    Randomhead
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    do you know what kind of crank it is?

  3. #3
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    I've got a conventional crank puller, but I assume you have one of those. What type are you looking for? Failing that, I've got this:



    I'm a little confused - which side of your BB assembly is stuck? Both? If the fixed cup isn't coming out, you can try this sort of thing to force it out:




    If you want a more delicate procedure, I'm no help. Maybe cut it out, and hope you don't slice through the BB shell?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Marrock's Avatar
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    Erg... ok, let me see if I can get this into something understandable...

    '76 Moto, Tourney cranks, basically the stock setup.

    Fixed bearing cup on the drive side isn't seated properly causing the bearings to bind very slightly during the pedal stroke.

    I want to get into the BB so I can make sure the bearings and the BB threads aren't chewed up and put it back together properly so it'll stop binding.

    As for tools... beyond the bare minimum to pull off a wheel, adjust a saddle, brakes & dérailleurs, I got squat... long story, don't feel up to telling it again.
    "Engineering! It's like math, but louder."

  5. #5
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    Go to the LBS

  6. #6
    Senior Member Herneka's Avatar
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    I think I understand what you are trying to do. Basically, and correct me if i'm wrong, you want to remove the drive side crank, and remove the drive side cup (the part that screws into the bottom bracket shell), and re-install it straight.

    To do that, you'll need to unbolt the crank (assuming it's a cotterless design). Then use a crank puller to remove the crank. Next, take off the bottom bracket lock ring with the appropriate wrench, or if you are delicate, a hammer and punch. The cup can then be removed with either a wrench or a pin spanner, depending on the make/model.

    If the bottom bracket hasn't been worked on, it will probably be pretty dirty and tough to get everything apart. If the cup has been cross threaded, the frame might be stripped too. Depending on the frame bb threading and the condition of the bottom bracket, you could either overhaul the current setup or upgrade.

    Crank Puller:
    http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._200309_200497

    BB Lockring Tool:
    http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._200309_200497

    Pin Spanners:
    http://www.nashbar.com/bikes/Product..._200309_200497

  7. #7
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    Part of the confusion is that the OP says lock ring & fixed cup.

    The lock ring would be on the adjustable cup, not the fixed.

    Having gone through the fixed cup from hell removal last weekend, I can whole heartily stand by my original suggestion of take it to the LBS, especially if it is cross threaded. No good can come out of it without proper tools and a lot of luck.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Marrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
    Part of the confusion is that the OP says lock ring & fixed cup.

    The lock ring would be on the adjustable cup, not the fixed.

    Having gone through the fixed cup from hell removal last weekend, I can whole heartily stand by my original suggestion of take it to the LBS, especially if it is cross threaded. No good can come out of it without proper tools and a lot of luck.
    No, I'm talking about both sides of the BB at once, I know the difference, the lockring and and all is opposite the side I'm trying to get at... and if the LBS here was worth bothering with I'd have just taken it there already, but since I'm not interested in buying a five year old trek for the same price as this year's model, they're not of much use.
    "Engineering! It's like math, but louder."

  9. #9
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrock View Post
    Erg... ok, let me see if I can get this into something understandable...

    '76 Moto, Tourney cranks, basically the stock setup.

    Fixed bearing cup on the drive side isn't seated properly causing the bearings to bind very slightly during the pedal stroke.

    I want to get into the BB so I can make sure the bearings and the BB threads aren't chewed up and put it back together properly so it'll stop binding.

    As for tools... beyond the bare minimum to pull off a wheel, adjust a saddle, brakes & dérailleurs, I got squat... long story, don't feel up to telling it again.
    Well, I've got some tools if you need them. I'm about 25 miles from Clinton Rd.

    I don't have a BB facer or thread chaser, though, which may be the reason the fixed cup isn't sitting square (if that's the issue).

  10. #10
    Senior Member Marrock's Avatar
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    As I said before, there's a slight binding of the cranks at the same point in the pedal stroke, though it's more noticeable when turning them by hand than when pedaling normally, and the only outward explanation I can think of is due to that fixed cup not being seated properly and throwing the bearings out of alingment.

    Then again, I could be hallucinating the entire thing and none of you actually exist.
    "Engineering! It's like math, but louder."

  11. #11
    Senior Member Marrock's Avatar
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    Maybe this will show you what I mean.

    It was taken from the front facing the rear, drive side is on the left.

    "Engineering! It's like math, but louder."

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrock View Post
    As I said before, there's a slight binding of the cranks at the same point in the pedal stroke, though it's more noticeable when turning them by hand than when pedaling normally, and the only outward explanation I can think of is due to that fixed cup not being seated properly and throwing the bearings out of alingment.

    Then again, I could be hallucinating the entire thing and none of you actually exist.

    What do the voices in your head tell you to do?

  13. #13
    Senior Member Marrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retyred View Post
    What do the voices in your head tell you to do?
    Something about a clock tower and a rifle... hard to be sure though, it has a horrible accent.
    "Engineering! It's like math, but louder."

  14. #14
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    I wasn't contesting you, just trying to get more details to see if I have the necessary tools. And again, if you need a conventional crank puller and BB tools, I have them.

    If you've never opened that BB, it could be that you have pitting on the spindle races...not at all uncommon. But yeah, the cup does look cockeyed. Could be the threading on the BB shell is off center. One advantage to cup and cone BB assemblies is that they do tolerate some degree of misalignment.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Marrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
    I wasn't contesting you, just trying to get more details to see if I have the necessary tools. And again, if you need a conventional crank puller and BB tools, I have them.

    If you've never opened that BB, it could be that you have pitting on the spindle races...not at all uncommon. But yeah, the cup does look cockeyed. Could be the threading on the BB shell is off center. One advantage to cup and cone BB assemblies is that they do tolerate some degree of misalignment.
    I figured that misalignment might be causing the binding, the bearings feel fine otherwise, no crunchiness or anything, it spins nice and smooth till the drive side pedal hits the 12 o'clock position and then it gets tight.

    My main wonder was whether or not I'd need special tools to work on it because of oddball threading or suchlike.
    "Engineering! It's like math, but louder."

  16. #16
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    Motobecane could have a swiss thread.....could be yer trying to remove it the wrond direction????
    Whatever, the heavy nut and bolt through the hole should do the job. I have a set up just like that that I have used many times successfully.

  17. #17
    Senior Member Marrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikerosity57 View Post
    Motobecane could have a swiss thread.....could be yer trying to remove it the wrond direction????
    Whatever, the heavy nut and bolt through the hole should do the job. I have a set up just like that that I have used many times successfully.
    I haven't tried to remove anything yet, and I'd rather not till I'm sure of what I'm doing.

    I'm willing to bet that most shops wont have parts lying about to for a 33 year old bike, so I'd rather err on the side of caution for the time being.
    "Engineering! It's like math, but louder."

  18. #18
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrock View Post
    I haven't tried to remove anything yet, and I'd rather not till I'm sure of what I'm doing.

    I'm willing to bet that most shops wont have parts lying about to for a 33 year old bike, so I'd rather err on the side of caution for the time being.
    Threads on crank for crank puller should be conventional. Are there any numbers on the face of the BB cups? 35x1 would mean French or Swiss. Unfortunately, the fixed cup threads on in opposite directions for each. Basically, you try it each way, without using too much force, hoping it loosens easily. If not, make a guess and go to town.

    I've got the Sheldon DIY tool if it gets stuck.

  19. #19
    Senior Member Marrock's Avatar
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    On the adjustable side I see 35xP1.
    "Engineering! It's like math, but louder."

  20. #20
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marrock View Post
    On the adjustable side I see 35xP1.
    Well, it's either French or Swiss thread. Where are all the Moto experts?

  21. #21
    26 tpi nut. sailorbenjamin's Avatar
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    I vote Swiss thread.
    Try the standard crank puller, it was a common enough size back then that a good LBS will have it. Do it yourself, though so some trainy doesn't cross thread the wrong one in trying to help you. If that's a dead end, start taking carefull measurements (stores that sell lots of nuts and bolts will have a thread guage to tell you how many threads per inch (or metric equivelent).
    I have spoken.

  22. #22
    Senior Member Marrock's Avatar
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    Did a lot of french bikes have swiss threading?

    I find that to be confuzzling.
    "Engineering! It's like math, but louder."

  23. #23
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    35XP1 is French. Swiss is 35XP1 S1.

    BB is Japanese or Taiwanese.

    There *should* be a marking on the fixed side.

  24. #24
    Senior Member Marrock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
    35XP1 is French. Swiss is 35XP1 S1.

    BB is Japanese or Taiwanese.

    There *should* be a marking on the fixed side.
    The fixed side is harder to see what with various chainrings and all in the way.
    "Engineering! It's like math, but louder."

  25. #25
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    Once the crank arm is off, it should be visible.

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