Bioflamingo

EDIT: I'm no longer using the Grand Prix. I couldn't bring myself to change it. I've begun working on an 88 Giant RS930 instead. Also, I have an opportunity to buy a Miyata six-ten frame/fork combo, but I haven't gotten a price on it yet.

I'm not exactly sure if this is a c&v or touring topic, but I'm already here so this'll do.

After much consideration, I've decided that it will be much cheaper to convert my 77 Raleigh Grand Prix to a touring bike than it would be to buy a new one. There are no stores within a 5 hour drive that have any touring bikes in stock, and if I can't test ride it I don't buy it. I've effectively narrowed down my choices to two simple ones: Either hope someone on CL has an old touring bike locally that they'll sell(unlikely), or convert one of my current bikes. I choose converting.

Now I have three bikes that are good enough to use: 77 Grand Prix, 78 Competition GS, 91 Diamondback Apex. The Competition is 100% original, so I don't want to mess it up. I don't have any other mountain bikes for off-roading, so I can't mess up my Diamondback. That leaves my Grand Prix.

It was the first bike I fixed up, and I believe I did an excellent job. It may have taken me 5 times longer than it should have, but that doesn't matter.

As far as the touring I won't be going far. 4-5 days at the absolute most. I'll be sticking mainly to paved roads, but I'll take the occasional dirt road as well.

Now the questions:
1. I'm wanting to put some alloy wheels on it. Currently it has 27x1 1/4 steel wheels. Should I use the same size of alloy, or should I use a slightly wider wheel? The brakes should adjust to accommodate a larger wheel and tire.
2. The handles have some strange soft foam stuff instead of bar tape. It's glued on, so removing will take a very, very long time. Are there any advantages to spending my time trying to change it to bar tape? The foam is decent, but it looks rather ugly. Then again the brown metallic paint does too...
3. It's a 10 speed with 14-34 gears and a 42-52 crank set. There's a few hills around here, but not many. Should I go with slightly lower gears? I'm not sure what will bolt on and what won't, so I think I'll leave it alone.
4. Is this bike completely horrible for this idea? If so I'm back to square one on attempting to find something to hit the road on. I've still got wanted ads running craigslist, so something may pop up before I start working on this bike.

One last note, if I do end up using this bike I'll have to repaint it. The paints fine, but it really drags the bike down in aesthetics. I know a guy that says he'll do a custom paint job for free if I'll advertise for him, and he does very good work. Right now when someone looks at the bike they wonder why I'm riding a crap colored piece of crap. I want the bike to stand out for good reasons. I've got other oddball bikes for people to laugh at.

mstrpete

1. If you switch from 27" to 700c wheels, you'll be able to run a wider tire and have more tire options as well. I'm re-doing a '77 Fuji S-10S as a touring bike, and I have 700x35s for it. I love the way they handle crappy pavement yet roll smooth and fast.
3. I think a 34-tooth rear cog should be pretty good for loads and hills, but others may come along and prove me wrong. Of course, with a 700c wheel your gearset options increase, too. That's all the insight I have right now-good luck with the project!

roccobike

With regard to the bar foam, are you assuming it's glued on because it's hard to remove or because you know it's glued? I ask because it takes super strength to remove that foam by sliding it off. I did it once and won't ever try that again. I just take a razor and slit the old foam and it peels right off. I'd replace it with bar tape, that old foam has probably absorbed all the sweat it can handle.
As for the frame. I really like Raleighs, but that's not a chromoly frame. I'm very biased toward a chromoly frame, especially a nice double butted chromoly frame. But if you like the way your GP rides then it's your call. BTW, I would not repaint it. I think there's something special about riding an older bike that can immediatley be identified as a 70s Raleigh Grand Prix. There are plenty of folks here who would disagree with me, but I always like to keep the original markings.

redneckwes

I've hauled quite a bit of stuff on my GP as a commuter, it seemed to respond pretty well to hauling a load. So I think one would probably make a decent enough tourer. For a cheaper frame, the 2030 Raleigh's ride very nice, sure the workmanship is not of the highest caliber, but Raleigh still managed to make a nice machine from 2030, but then again, they had plenty of experience.

+1 to keeping the factory paint.

Bioflamingo

I just realized that i have an extra set of alloy 700x35 wheels. I'm not entirely sure how I forgot. I don't know what quality they are though, so I need to double check them. I may try to get something better off ebay anyway.

And I'm just assuming the foam is glued because it won't budge. I'll try the razor approach.

And despite being 2030, it really is a very nice riding bike. I'd honesty say it's probably my favorite bike as far as long distance traveling goes because it fits me perfectly and is very stable.

As far as repainting I'm still undecided.

Sluggo

If you are that concerned with aesthetics, I am surprised that you would consider using this low-end hearth-brazed frame for this specialized and demanding application. I am not saying that you can't make it work or you won't be happy with it, but aesthetically, ... eeewww.

As far as frame-design specifics go, one important thing for a touring bike is long-enough chain stays for heal clearance with panniers and stability with a load. The GP chain stays may be long enough, but they might be a little shorter, as would be appropriate for an all-purpose bike. They really ought to be at least 17 1/2". It would not be a fatal flaw if they are shorter, but you will have to take that into account when choosing rack and panniers.

The gearing you have now may work fine for Kansas, but if you ever want to go farther afield, consider going lower. I would suggest a 27" (1:1) low gear or lower if you plan to head for the mountains.

I hate to say it in this forum, but C/V real touring frames are hard to come by and new chromo is cheap. By the time you get this one into shape you could have bought a new fuji or trek or assembled a surly lht using some of the parts you already have.

IceNine

1. Should I use the same size of alloy, or should I use a slightly wider wheel? Without a doubt, go with 700C so that you have more options for tires and wider clearance for tires/fenders.

2. The handles have some strange soft foam stuff instead of bar tape. That fugli stuff is on a lot of bikes that I flip. I use a utility knife to take it off and replace with cotton hockey tape coated with shallac. The results are rather dramatic, visually.

3. It's a 10 speed with 14-34 gears and a 42-52 crank set. . . Should I go with slightly lower gears? If your first shakedown tour is in KS you'll probably be fine as it is now. However, that will severely limit where you can go in the future, unless you have really strong legs and your knees can handle mashing tall gears uphill. A lot of touring folks use a 24 or 26 granny ring.

4. Is this bike completely horrible for this idea? It won't be ideal, but you can make it work. In the 19th century some insane dude road across the country on a penny farthing.

One last note, if I do end up using this bike I'll have to repaint it. Won't loaded touring be rather hard on the paint? Not sure why you'd be all that worried about how it looks. My question would be whether the new paint job would make theft more or less likely than the way it is now. Obviously, you should go with the option that makes you happiest, but I'd spend the money on touring accessories if it were me.

In terms of the short chainstays, one option is to tour with a Bob Yak or other trailer rather than panniers. Esp on flat, windy terrain (i.e. KS) the Yak may be superior. Not sure how many eyelets you have for fenders and racks, and how many water bottle bosses your have, but a trailer would also minimize the lack of those.

sciencemonster

I took a Competition and swapped out the drive train with a $40 Veloce compact double crankset and a $12 SIS Shimano 13-28 and am very pleased. It can make it up any hill. I frillied it up with other stuff, too, but really all the bang for the buck was in those two components. The Aluminum wheels are a great upgrade, too. And whatever other steel part you can replace with cheap alloy.

I wouldn't paint it either. However, I just got a mid-70s brown mixte Grand Prix as a back up bike for my daughter when her current bike gets stolen, and I agree. It's faded to a horrible shade of brown. I'm going to try some polish. WHen new, that brown was much more attractive.

Blue Order

The OP isn't asking if the bike will be suitable for loaded touring; he's asking if it will be suitable for light touring. Now, before we proceed any further, we should make sure he means "light touring" and not "loaded touring." If he's using it for light touring, he won't be carrying the panniers front and rear that are part and parcel of loaded touring. He might be carrying a bag or two, but not much-- just enough to carry some food, water, clothing, and a credit card.

So, if he's not carrying lots of bags, he's looking for a light tourer. If he's planning on carrying lots of bags, he's looking for a loaded tourer.

The Grand Prix would not be suitable for loaded touring. It would be suitable for light touring, although it's no the best choice out there-- mainly because of the weight of the bike and the steel wheels. Other than those drawbacks, it's a sport touring bike, and therefore the geometry will be relaxed enough for touring.

I'd say the main change you would want to address are the wheels-- get come alloy wheels. The gearing will be fine for light touring. You're not going to get lower than that 34 in the rear, so if you want lower gearing, you can convert to a triple crankset.

If you're getting rid of the foam on the bar, you might want to also change the brake levers to aero levers for an extra riding position. Even better would be aero levers plus 'cross-style interrupter levers (unless you're riding with a bar-mounted front bag), and bar end shifters. Add a rack to the rear, maybe some fenders if you're going to be riding on wet roads, and you're good to go.

Bioflamingo

It is only for light touring. I'll have a sleeping bag, emergency bike tools/parts, one change of clothes and some food. I have a fold up fishing pole and a small tackle box I might take to the lake. I won't be gone for more than a few days at a time so I don't really need anymore. Being in Kansas I don't really need a tent either. If I decide I like touring this spring, I'll consider getting a new Surly for heavier touring this summer a little more seriously.

It already has aero bars on it. There are 4 pieces of foam in total on it, so it's not one solid piece on each side. It's just bare aluminum around the brake levers. I guess I really should take some pictures of the bike this afternoon.

On another note, I have an early 90s? Giant RS930 that has a cromo frame/fork and alloy wheels already on it. They're the wrong size, but selling them may help pay for the right size. It is not ready to ride though, and will take new cables, tubes, tires, brake pads, bar tape, chain, and saddle. Basically it needs completely refurbished. However, it's a much lighter frame and it's not nearly as vintage. Also, the paint isn't all that special, but it doesn't hurt your eyes to look at. I hadn't considered this bike before because of the amount of work involved, but it actually may be better. Not easier, but better in the long run. The reduced weight would really be nice too.

Blue Order

I googled the model, and found your bike, and then another RS930 of the same year as yours. It looks to me like it's also a sport tourer, and it has braze-ons for a rack, so that might make a good candidate for a light tourer.

Another option to consider would be to sell one or two of your bikes and buy a good light tourer that doesn't need much work. You should be able to pick up a good mid-level Japanese sport tourer for $150-$200, and it wouldn't need anything (well, maybe tires and a tuneup). Compare that to the cost to get your Raleigh or your Giant ready to decide which route you want to go.

Blue Order

PS-- does your Giant still have the components on it? I'd be interested in knowing what year it is. I have a Giant Iguana frameset with the same decals, but no components, so I don't know what year it is.

I bought it for conversion to a loaded tourer...

sonatageek

Rather than a razor to remove the foam, I have had good luck using a spoke (or other thin item) to get under the foam and spraying in isopropyl alcohol. That gets the first part loose and I work my way up a little further and then it just slips right off.

I find this method leaves no debris and is easier than the slice and rip method.

Blue Order

Good technique. I think they slide them on with isopropyl alcohol, too.

Bioflamingo

It has the components, but I'm not sure how to date Suntour stuff. It's all Suntour Accushift parts, so that would make it at the earliest late 80s. The guy that brought it in to the junk yard said it was early 90s, but he could easily be wrong.

I've already got the bike basically stripped down so I can give it a thorough cleaning/greasing. I measured the wheels that are on it, and I'll be able to put up to 700x32 tires on it according to sheldon brown. So that eliminates part of the cost. I've already got the aluminum handlebars off of a diamondback centurion that will fit perfectly. I just need to purchase some brake levers. I've got lots of them laying around, but they're all pretty rough. Although I do have a set of Shimano 500 ex levers off of the same centurion. They need new hoods though.

Blue Order

You can date components using the Component Dates page at Vintage Trek. The component dates will give you a clue about the year.

Bioflamingo

It's an 88. The front derailleur was made in dec of 87, but the rear was made in jan of 88.


On another note, I found out that my grand prix is actually a 76. It sure looked like the 77 style though. Oh well. That just makes it older, thus making it better.

Blue Order

Thanks!

TL179

wow, theres really no question in the giant vs raleigh gp. GIANT!

Bioflamingo

Yep. I just bought new mavic wheels, some nice shimano brake levers, and a touring specific shimano crankset. Now I'm going to buy a 9 speed cassette to match the hubs in the wheels, and a rear derailleur to match that. I already have a good shimano deore front derailleur, suntour shifting levers, and an extra set of weinmann brake arms. Changing all this stuff on the Raleigh would've destroyed its vintage-ness. Plus I'm not sure if it would all fit. I know it will on the Giant.

I'm spending a lot more than I originally planned($200 so far), but I'm building it like I want it. I decided that the parts it already had just wouldn't cut it. Now I can use the old parts to build up another regular road bike. Plus after I get used to touring I can buy a better, more touring specific frame and slap all this stuff on it. I've still got ads running craigslist asking for a frame, so by the time all the stuff comes in I may have a different frame.

USAZorro

Sounds like you're enjoying it - which is the most important thing. You definitely could have made the Grand Prix do what you wanted, but now you might be able to keep it as your knockabout bike. I know the frame isn't of the highest pedigree, but the GP's I've ridden are easily the nicest riding gaspipe bikes I've ever propelled.

ken_matthews

BIOFLAMINGO,

INteresting topic as I just finished up a 76 Grand Prix in time for a quick out-and-back 2-day trip next weekend. It's funny how we get spoiled into thinking "nahhh, that'll never work - I gotta have triple rings, the latest this and that."

Interesting nobody touched on handlebar/stem setup. Personally, I like the NITTO randonneur approach with a Technomic stem. That's just what I did on mine, plus added fenders, alloy 27 in. wheels and MAFAC Racer centerpull brakes. I like the old school look so that's just me, but as far as can it be done? By all means. I can PM you some pics just to get your creative juices flowin' if you want.

Good luck!

rhm

I rode that gear combination over the Rockies when I was 21 and had no problems. Were I doing it again, I'd get a triple chainring on there first.

Aaah, don't do it. Ride it proudly. If you can't be proud of it --and if that's an issue-- I really doubt painting is going to make the big difference.

Bioflamingo

I decided to leave my grand prix as it was. It's just too much fun to ride around town. I thought it was a 77 for I don't know how long, but after checking the numbers it turned out to be a 76. I'll just keep it all original and ride it around town.

Bioflamingo

I'm slowly growing to like its brown ugliness. It's turning into a good-ugly. At least it stands out against the background of walmart bikes around here.