Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-22-09, 09:30 PM   #1
KendallF
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park, FL
Bikes: Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I Cut my Soma frame in two today -- updated with pics

**4 April updated with pictures below**

Seriously! I took the sawzall to it, hacked right through the seat tube and the down tube. I must say I enjoyed it.




...I am starting on my project to make a "Ritchey Breakaway" style travel frame. Thanks to 23skidoo from this forum who donated the Soma frame. I'm using a Ritchey style double seatpost clamp that will hold the two halves of the seat tube together, and a sleeve with two pinch bolts that will hold the down tube together.

Nova had all of the small parts to make this easier; I bought a seat clamp lug, several cast steel pinch bolt assemblies, a stainless steel piece of tubing for the down tube sleeve, STI cable adjuster stops, water bottle braze-ons, etc.

Today I cut the seat stays loose from the top lug, for later reattachment to the second (lower) lug. I used a 3" piece of stainless tubing sized to slip fit over the down tube, brazed pinch bolts to it, slit it -- voila, down tube clamp.

Next I have to braze the second seat lug, along with modern style cable and STI stops. Then I'll shorten and reattach the seat stays. I'll post pics in a day or two; wish me luck!

Last edited by KendallF; 04-04-09 at 08:44 PM.
KendallF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 09:55 PM   #2
kramnnim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 705
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
...pictures?
kramnnim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 10:12 PM   #3
Old Fat Guy
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 5,285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Why wouldn't you use S&S couplers?
http://www.sandsmachine.com/
Old Fat Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 10:14 PM   #4
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
S&S requires you to have insurance that names them in the policy. That's $1800 up front for a project like this.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 10:19 PM   #5
rotharpunc
BEHOLD! THE MANTICORE!
 
rotharpunc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: 54914
Bikes:
Posts: 1,797
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
S&S requires you to have insurance that names them in the policy. That's $1800 up front for a project like this.
please explain this.
rotharpunc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-09, 10:27 PM   #6
Old Fat Guy
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 5,285
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I think it means that S&S requires people to know what they are doing before they will sell their product to them.

Typically it's about $300-$500 to have a frame properly retrofit.
Old Fat Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 12:48 AM   #7
banjo_mole 
Bicycle Adventurer
 
banjo_mole's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Portland, Oregon
Bikes:
Posts: 1,514
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Sorry friends, I'm lost here. Too many acronyms and insider terminology for me.
banjo_mole is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 02:15 AM   #8
prettyshady
12345
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: south france
Bikes:
Posts: 1,249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by banjo_mole View Post
Sorry friends, I'm lost here. Too many acronyms and insider terminology for me.
have a look at sandsmachine.com/ to see
prettyshady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 06:14 AM   #9
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotharpunc View Post
please explain this.
S&S will only sell their couplings to framebuilders that have an insurance policy where S&S is specifically certified to be covered for any claims arising from your use of the couplings. There is one insurance company that is used by framebuilders, and a policy costs a minimum of $1800 a year. It has nothing to do with knowing what you are doing.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 07:12 AM   #10
KendallF
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park, FL
Bikes: Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
Why wouldn't you use S&S couplers?
http://www.sandsmachine.com/
unterhausen nailed it; S&S won't sell to non-insured framebuilders, even for personal use. Really though, I don't feel any compelling need to use them. I'll have about $50 in my frame when I'm done, and I believe it'll be more than adequately strong.

I think the seatpost double clamp solution is simpler and more elegant than the S&S coupler. I never liked the look of Ritchey's little v-band clamp on the downtube, and thought that a sliding clamp sleeve would be stronger and more maintenance friendly. The tube cut is angled and I'll cap the ends of the tube, giving it some more resistance to torsion.

I can't take credit for that idea either though; someone on the framebuilder's list sent me to pictures of Rene Herse's frames using the sliding sleeve for a coupling.

Last edited by KendallF; 03-23-09 at 07:17 AM.
KendallF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 07:25 AM   #11
RobbieTunes 
Idiot Pro Tempo
 
RobbieTunes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: NC
Bikes: at Pedal Room
Posts: 20,589
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 190 Post(s)
My builds can fall apart for far less money, but I'd love to see the folder.
__________________

Robbie ♪♫♪...☻

Friends don't let friends drink and wrench.

1985 Raleigh Competition Racing USA Series-Coleman made me do it.....
1987 Bridgestone Radac - Aluminum (sadly, the frame is toast, RD hanger snapped off)
1988 Centurion Dave Scott Ironman Master - Steel
1989 Centurion Carbon-R - Carbon Fiber

http://www.pedalroom.com/members/RobbieTunes
RobbieTunes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 07:49 AM   #12
Banzai
Jet Jockey
 
Banzai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Bikes: Cannondale CAAD9, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Nashbar X-frame bike.
Posts: 4,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
I'm curious how the system you're using compares to S&S couplers. S&S couplers seem so...elegant.
__________________
Good night...and good luck
Banzai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 08:06 AM   #13
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by KendallF View Post
I can't take credit for that idea either though; someone on the framebuilder's list sent me to pictures of Rene Herse's frames using the sliding sleeve for a coupling.
I don't really understand how this system works, do you have a link? Is it just the pictures at Bicycle Quarterly?
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 10:34 AM   #14
KendallF
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park, FL
Bikes: Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Robbietunes, I LOL'ed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I don't really understand how this system works, do you have a link? Is it just the pictures at Bicycle Quarterly?
Here's the link someone sent me:

http://www.43bikes.com/herse-demountable.html

Herse actually used quick release levers so that the bike could be quickly taken apart with no tools. I'm not doing that because I don't want the levers in the way, extra weight, etc. but it was a pretty cool execution.
KendallF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 03:25 PM   #15
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,662
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
that's pretty nice, but the shift levers under the saddle looks like a really bad idea. The modern method of breaking the cables is far superior. I'm a little disappointed that nobody bothered to take a picture with the bike disassembled.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-09, 06:30 PM   #16
mjww
Mike
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Cayman Islands
Bikes: Cignal Silverado MTB
Posts: 54
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I done a similar thing

I made my bike into a folder and took it on an 800km tour with no ill effects.
A few details can be found at http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/p..._id=80414&v=8G. This is my third bike with the same frame joining method. Got the ideas from http://www.sonic.net/~maryking/index.html who builds take apart bikes. Cheaper the S&S and very adaptable to the DIYer.

Mike
mjww is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-09, 07:53 AM   #17
Gotte
Senior Member
 
Gotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I'd love to see pictures from your conversion. I was working on something similar a while back, but using a cut down headset to join the frame. I had a length of wood inside to give rigidity to the join. It did work alright, though the headset joint worried me as it was maybe only 3 inches in leghth, and I wasn;t convinced.
Unfortunatley, I can braze, but haven;t really got the skill to make something from scratch, so have to rely on something ready made to do the job.
Gotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-09, 12:35 PM   #18
KendallF
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park, FL
Bikes: Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
I worked on the thing a bit more last night; couldn't find the camera so still no pictures.

The original lug work was pretty rough, and taking the seat stays off of the seat lug didn't improve it. Oh well, this is about function, not beauty. ..not to mention, I'm pretty much a hack in the brazing/framework business anyway.

I cleaned up the seat lug, shortened and re-cut the seat stays for their new attachment point, and verified that a long reach brake will still work in the back with the moved stays (barely).

I need to braze the lower seat tube lug, re-attach the seat stays, and make new caps for them. The last few things will be brazing STI stops and new cable stops for the rear brake and derailleur cables.

Maybe I'll get some more brazing done on it and take some pictures tomorrow night. Tonight, I will ride my plastic wonderbike...
KendallF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-09, 07:40 AM   #19
Gotte
Senior Member
 
Gotte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 1,333
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Looking forward to seeing it.
Gotte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-09, 08:48 PM   #20
KendallF
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Orange Park, FL
Bikes: Ever changing..as of 2-24-09: 2003 Giant TCR Team Once, Sampson titanium, 1992 Paramount Series 3, 2003 Cervelo P3, 70s Raleigh Record fixed gear, 70s Fuji SL-12 commuter, mid 90s Klein MTB. Plus two or three frames lurking, plus 5 wife/kids rides
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
OK, here are a few pictures of the frame, ugly charred paint and all. After I took these pictures I sprayed some grey primer on it to keep it from rusting and built it up. I'm going to ride it for a week or two and make sure everything's OK before powdercoating it, probably bright red. It's so ugly I may have to take it on the Tuesday night World Championships ride.









KendallF is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-09, 01:10 AM   #21
yellowjeep
Senior Member
 
yellowjeep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lawrence
Bikes:
Posts: 3,270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Interesting, looking forward to hearing more.
yellowjeep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-05-09, 02:01 AM   #22
prettyshady
12345
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: south france
Bikes:
Posts: 1,249
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Thats an ingenious design. I was thinking it was going to be very dangerous to ride a home made cut and shut but I like the way its been done.
prettyshady is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-12, 11:08 AM   #23
raincrosswrench
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Cazenovia, NY
Bikes: '81 Helton tandem, '82 Somec, '96 Merckx Ti, '09 Gunnar XC, '13 Shannon
Posts: 15
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Ritchey BreakAway homebuilt

Quote:
Originally Posted by KendallF View Post
OK, here are a few pictures of the frame, ugly charred paint and all. After I took these pictures I sprayed some grey primer on it to keep it from rusting and built it up. I'm going to ride it for a week or two and make sure everything's OK before powdercoating it, probably bright red. It's so ugly I may have to take it on the Tuesday night World Championships ride.









Hey- seeing as your post is almost 4 years old now, and I just stumbled onto it, I'curious how your bike has held up? I'm in the process of trying to build a Ritchey Breakaway like frame, without the funky downtube clamp. I'm planning to use a downtube joint more like the one on the Rene Herse you linked to, only using two binder-bolt braze-ons with a length of 26.2mm aluminum seat post tubing for an internal sleeve instead of your external SS sleeve. My brazing is not great either, but I'm learning
Thanks for any insights-
Scott
raincrosswrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:43 AM.