Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-22-09, 12:01 PM   #1
unterhausen
Randomhead
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Anyone have a titanium Campy SR BB?

I was just curious about the crank bolts. I have one of these BB in a box with some titanium crank bolts, but since they don't have any markings on them at all, I'm hesitant to think they are from Campy. I know I had some aftermarket titanium crank bolts. The cups are aluminum with steel races, but the lock ring in the box is chromed steel. I'm wondering if that's original too.

Don't tell me these things are breakable, why do you think it's been in a box for 30 years? Actually, I was really surprised to find out that I had installed it at some point. I remember stealing the plastic parts, but don't remember what frame it would have been in.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 12:27 PM   #2
Otis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 2,621
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
I have one in my '77 Bianchi. It came with the standard Campy steel bolts and lockring. I think Ti bolts would have been aftermarket?
Otis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 12:55 PM   #3
unterhausen
Randomhead
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
I think you're right. I wonder what Campy was thinking about the bolts. I never used my titanium ones to put the crank on, but they certainly are strong enough to keep it on.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 01:08 PM   #4
Grand Bois
Senior Member
 
Grand Bois's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pinole, CA, USA
Bikes:
Posts: 16,625
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 51 Post(s)
I thought the titanium SR spindles were nutted.
Grand Bois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 01:16 PM   #5
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 10,837
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
The initial design of the Super Record BB used hollow spindle and steel bolts and washers. the redesign used a solid spindle, and steel nuts with formed washer as part of the nut.

Both used CP commercially pure ti, no alloys. Teledyne Linar also made a ti spindle at the time, with pressed on steel races to accept 1/4" ball bearings of the typical format and made ti bolts. Teledyne later advised to torque down the cranks with steel bolts and then install the ti bolts, the heads of the bolts had a habit of popping off if used to install the crank arms. Arnold Industries also made lightweight bolts, gold anno aluminum alloy, they also directed to install the arms with steel bolts first. By the way, the Teledyne spindle while hollow to accept the bolts, was not bored clear through.

I would not ride a Super Record BB of either type other than to the coffee house, I do not like to crash and I do not like the flex.
repechage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 01:56 PM   #6
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.
Posts: 16,439
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 88 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by repechage View Post
The initial design of the Super Record BB used hollow spindle and steel bolts and washers. the redesign used a solid spindle, and steel nuts with formed washer as part of the nut.

Both used CP commercially pure ti, no alloys. Teledyne Linar also made a ti spindle at the time, with pressed on steel races to accept 1/4" ball bearings of the typical format and made ti bolts. Teledyne later advised to torque down the cranks with steel bolts and then install the ti bolts, the heads of the bolts had a habit of popping off if used to install the crank arms. Arnold Industries also made lightweight bolts, gold anno aluminum alloy, they also directed to install the arms with steel bolts first. By the way, the Teledyne spindle while hollow to accept the bolts, was not bored clear through.

I would not ride a Super Record BB of either type other than to the coffee house, I do not like to crash and I do not like the flex.
Zeus and Stronglight also made titanium bottom brackets back then, but they avoided CP titanium and used a more suitable alloy. The Stronglight spindle also had an oversize diameter to make it stiffer, and used sealed cartridge bearings with aluminum cups. The Zeus spindle was essentially the same dimensions as the steel spindle, and was hollow with pressed on steel races. The cups were also titanium, with pressed in steel races. The steel races required that smaller balls be used; 7/32" rather than the typical 1/4" balls. The fastening bolts were also titanium.

I have one of the Zeus Ti bottom brackets on one of my bikes; I've never had any problems with it and haven't noticed it to be more flexible than a steel bottom bracket, but I'm sure I'm not that strong of a rider to bring out the difference.
JohnDThompson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 02:18 PM   #7
Citoyen du Monde
Senior Member
 
Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 1,910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
I currently have titanium super record BB in two bikes and have had them in numerous other bikes in the past. I have never broken one and I do not judge them to be overly flexible. The Ofmega Mistral and Stronglight 106 BB's that I have are both considerably more flexible. The reputation of the BB's breaking is quite overblown in my experience.
Citoyen du Monde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 02:20 PM   #8
trueno92
Building a better Strida
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: toronto, canada
Bikes: bianchi brava 1988. fuji track 2007, 2006 Bianchi Pista, 1987 Miele and a strida knock off
Posts: 1,108
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
im pretty sure that unless you are running clipless, you should be totally fine.
trueno92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 03:15 PM   #9
caterham
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Bikes:
Posts: 680
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
regarding the use of ti or other lightweight crankarm fixing bolts, first install the arms to the spindle using the standard steel bolts, bringing them up to full torque spec. remove them and replace with the lightweight bolts. torque to spec.

caterham is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 03:58 PM   #10
unterhausen
Randomhead
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
mine is one of the hollow ones. I'd also be concerned about aluminum cups in a steel frame. I don't think campy was too worried about them being used for too long.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 04:32 PM   #11
due ruote 
Senior Member
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Bikes:
Posts: 5,379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citoyen du Monde View Post
The reputation of the BB's breaking is quite overblown in my experience.
Didn't Hinault or someone famously break one in the Tour? That might have something to do with it.

I never broke mine (I'm a tad weaker than most Tour riders) but I did manage to toast the pressed-on races. I looked for but couldn't find replacements, and decided that with the breakage threat, however overblown, it made sense to call off the search and put in a NR unit.
due ruote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 08:58 PM   #12
unterhausen
Randomhead
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
by the time I bought my Super Record group, I had pretty much had my fill of broken titanium given the two broken Teledyne titans I owned. I probably couldn't have broken a crank axle though, that seems like a lot of force and a lot of cycles would be required. I did notice that Campy used much lighter engraving for the size and other lettering. Probably smart of them to do that.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 09:52 PM   #13
Citoyen du Monde
Senior Member
 
Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 1,910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbonamici View Post
Didn't Hinault or someone famously break one in the Tour? That might have something to do with it.

I never broke mine (I'm a tad weaker than most Tour riders) but I did manage to toast the pressed-on races. I looked for but couldn't find replacements, and decided that with the breakage threat, however overblown, it made sense to call off the search and put in a NR unit.
It was actually Laurent Fignon and there is not definitive proof that I know of that it was axle material that was at fault.
Citoyen du Monde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-09, 10:13 PM   #14
luker
juneeaa memba!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: boogled up in...Idaho!
Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...
Posts: 5,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
I have a campy super record titanium in my Raleigh Team and one in my Pinarello...neither have ever given me a lot of grief. I did break a Phil once, on a steep climb, and I did not meet a dismal end, although I did have to pedal home one-legged.
luker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-09, 11:02 AM   #15
unterhausen
Randomhead
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Phil had a very horrible design at one time. I think I may still have the one where the two cranks were at about a 20 degree angle off from 180 degrees.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-09, 09:27 PM   #16
Homebrew01
Super Moderator
 
Homebrew01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ffld Cnty Connecticut
Bikes: Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
Posts: 19,700
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 105 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
mine is one of the hollow ones. I'd also be concerned about aluminum cups in a steel frame. I don't think campy was too worried about them being used for too long.
What's wrong with Aluminum cups ?? Campy SR cups worked just fine for years for me.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Citoyen du Monde View Post
I currently have titanium super record BB in two bikes and have had them in numerous other bikes in the past. I have never broken one and I do not judge them to be overly flexible. The Ofmega Mistral and Stronglight 106 BB's that I have are both considerably more flexible. The reputation of the BB's breaking is quite overblown in my experience.
Correct

My hollow Campy Ti axle on the other hand .......
__________________
Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

Last edited by Homebrew01; 05-23-09 at 09:32 PM.
Homebrew01 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-09, 10:35 PM   #17
dannyg1 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Bikes:
Posts: 1,225
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
[QUOTE=Homebrew01;8973440]What's wrong with Aluminum cups ?? Campy SR cups worked just fine for years for me.

They tend to seize to the frame.
dannyg1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-23-09, 10:36 PM   #18
Citoyen du Monde
Senior Member
 
Citoyen du Monde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Bikes:
Posts: 1,910
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
My hollow Campy Ti axle on the other hand .......
How many times did you hit a pedal in a corner? Things break because they get subjected to undue stress. These lightweight parts were designed to be at the extreme of acceptable and any deviation from the ideal is bound to put it to the test.
Citoyen du Monde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 12:43 AM   #19
unterhausen
Randomhead
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Bikes:
Posts: 14,573
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by dannyg1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Homebrew01 View Post
What's wrong with Aluminum cups ?? Campy SR cups worked just fine for years for me.
They tend to seize to the frame.
That's all I was worried about. You'd have to overhaul them fairly often to keep them unstuck.
unterhausen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 04:30 AM   #20
Picchio Special
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis
Posts: 5,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Surprised no one's yet mentioned O.M.A.S., who also made a Ti spindle BB.
Picchio Special is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 05:35 AM   #21
LWaB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Auld Blighty
Bikes: Early Cannondale tandem, '99 S&S Frezoni Audax, '65 Moulton Stowaway, '52 Claud Butler, TSR30, Brompton
Posts: 2,240
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Citoyen du Monde View Post
It was actually Laurent Fignon
in a solo breakaway in a one-day Classic, not the TdF. It prompted a change of equipment by the Renault team.
LWaB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 06:02 AM   #22
Picchio Special
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Lancaster County, PA
Bikes: '39 Hobbs, '58 Marastoni, '73 Italian custom, '75 Wizard, '76 Wilier, '78 Tom Kellogg, '79 Colnago Super, '79 Sachs, '81 Masi Prestige, '82 Cuevas, '83 Picchio Special, '84 Murray-Serotta, '85 Trek 170, '89 Bianchi, '90 Bill Holland, '94 Grandis
Posts: 5,063
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
According "The Custom Bicycle," Gerald O'Donovan arranged for Campagnolo to change the specifications for it's Ti spindles for the Ti Raleigh team, making them thicker then those commercially available.
Picchio Special is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-24-09, 02:16 PM   #23
luker
juneeaa memba!
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: boogled up in...Idaho!
Bikes: Crap. The box is not big enough...
Posts: 5,627
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
Surprised no one's yet mentioned O.M.A.S., who also made a Ti spindle BB.
oh, yep. I lied. That is an OMAS in the Pinarello. Haven't had any trouble with it yet, either.
luker is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:19 PM.