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Old 05-22-09, 10:26 PM   #1
Fredo0709
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1985-1986 Nishiki Prestige Build

Hi everyone,

I'd appreciate it if you can help me with my Nishiki Prestige build. My friend gave it to me as a gift and it's got some components on it and I'd like to set it up to a full 8 speed road bike.

What's currently on there is:
Shimano Ultegra 600 8 Spd Shifters
Shimano Ultegra 600 Rear Derailleur
Shimano Ultegra 600 Front and Rear Brakes

What's on order:
Shimano WH-R500 wheels with Shimano 8-9-10 freewheel
Shimano CS-HG50 8 Speed Cassette

I'd like to know which crankset I'll need and more importantly which bottom bracket length I can use.

I tried to build it up with 10 speed parts I had lying around but the chainline seemed to be very off because of the Hollowtech II bottom bracket width. The angle was too great when the chain reached the rear 10 spd cassette. I suspected the Hollowtech II BB length was too small.

After some research here and using google, I think the original Nishiki Prestige came with a Sugino Triple crankset and that may have used a 118mm spindle length. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks for the help!
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Old 05-22-09, 10:45 PM   #2
Torchy McFlux
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The BB spindle length will be determined by the exact make and model of crank you decide to use. The idea is to get the centerline of the middle chainring (if running a triple) as close to 45mm away from the centerline of the seattube as possible. That will ensure a good chainline and good front shifting.
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Old 05-22-09, 10:51 PM   #3
Fredo0709
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Thanks for the quick reply. I'd like to get a double chainring at the front.

I may have found more information here:

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-380951.html

Last post in the thread suggests a 115 mm spindle?

If I wanted to use a Shimano FC-6500 crankset (uses Octalink V1 BB), will I run into problems like I did when I tried to use the Hollowtech II BB and crankset?

Last edited by Fredo0709; 05-22-09 at 10:55 PM.
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Old 05-22-09, 10:55 PM   #4
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Like I said, it depends on the crank you decide on.
Every model has a potentially different profile that will require a slightly different length of spindle to put it in the right spot.
Buy the crankset first. Worry about the BB second.

(If running a double, you want to get the centerline of the inner chainring about 41mm away from the centerline of the seattube.)
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Old 05-22-09, 10:58 PM   #5
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Ok, understood... Thanks again.
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Old 05-23-09, 08:07 AM   #6
Charles Wahl
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Your Nishiki has a 68 mm wide, English-threaded bottom bracket, and it came spaced 126 mm between dropouts (6-speed or Ultra-7). Problems you may have fitting a 8/9/10-speed cassette and another crankset to it have nothing whatever to do with the frame; it's about as standard and easy to fit as anything you'll find -- except a bike that was set up for such a cassette to begin with. You'll definitely need a wider dropout spacing in the rear. If you only go to 130 mm, then you can just pry the dropouts apart when you install the rear wheel. If you need to go to 135 mm, then you'll probably have to cold-reset the spacing.

As to the crankset, as others say, this depends entirely on what the optimum chainline is for a 10-speed. Your best bet is to buy a crank and spindle that were meant for each other, and meant to be used on a 8/9/10-apeed setup.

Now for the "too much information" department:
If you use an older crankset, which probably has a "center of crank tabs between chainrings" chainline of 43.5 mm, then you'll almost certainly need a longer spindle, to align with the center of your chosen cassette. The best way to tell this is to mount the crank with a spindle having the correct taper for it (JIS, ISO, Campy or one of several others depending on brand/model), and measure the chainline you get. Then purchase a new spindle or BB that has a dimension from right side of bottom bracket housing to end of spindle that's longer than your test setup by the difference you need. Unfortunately, manufacturers seldom (if ever) publish this "SER" distance; though it's the single most important dimension on a bottom bracket. Gross spindle length doesn't tell you very much, unless you know whether the spindle hangs off the bottom bracket symettrically or asymmetrically (right side sticks out further than left), and if so, by how much (manufacturers vary in this too). So, I'd say that you should get to know a trusted LBS for this exercise, or else home in on a model that's correct, and ask C&V if anyone has one, and what the measurements are.

Footnote: the "taper" of the various spindle "standards" (if they may be dignified by that term) is actually the same: 2 degrees per side. What differentiates them is the size of the end of the spindle, which varies little, but at that low taper it's enough to make a big difference in how spindles fit into crank sockets of various sizes.

Last edited by Charles Wahl; 05-23-09 at 08:11 AM.
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Old 05-23-09, 05:33 PM   #7
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If it's got 600 Ultegra parts, get a 600 Ultegra crank set. There are plenty around, and a standard double Shimano bb will work, square taper. I'm not sure where the Octalink came into the picture, but the 600 Ultegra stuff was square taper, and if that's the case, you can get decent bb's for under $20.

You didn't say if it had 8-sp downtube shifters or 8-sp STI shifters, though it makes little difference. If it has 8 speeds, someone has upgraded the original bike.

That Tange Prestige frame is very nice and well worth the upgrades, by the way.
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Old 05-23-09, 06:00 PM   #8
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My friend who gave it to me had some Ultegra 600 parts on it but it came w/o a crank and bb. He did mention that when he used it, it was with downtube shifters. I wanted to make it STI so I added barrel adjusters that go over the downtube shifter bosses last year. I dropped the project last summer since I didn't want to spend the money to purchase all the parts.

I believe that it was upgraded since the distance between the rear dropouts are 130mm.

Yeah, it looks really nice and I didn't want to give it away... that's why I've held on to it for three years. Now, I've finally saved up some cash to buy all the parts and put in the effort to rebuild it/upgrade it.

I was hoping to get an Ultegra 6500 crank and 6500 bb, but maybe Ultegra 6400 (600) is the way to go.
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Old 05-24-09, 10:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fredo0709 View Post
My friend who gave it to me had some Ultegra 600 parts on it but it came w/o a crank and bb. He did mention that when he used it, it was with downtube shifters. I wanted to make it STI so I added barrel adjusters that go over the downtube shifter bosses last year. I dropped the project last summer since I didn't want to spend the money to purchase all the parts.

I believe that it was upgraded since the distance between the rear dropouts are 130mm.

Yeah, it looks really nice and I didn't want to give it away... that's why I've held on to it for three years. Now, I've finally saved up some cash to buy all the parts and put in the effort to rebuild it/upgrade it.

I was hoping to get an Ultegra 6500 crank and 6500 bb, but maybe Ultegra 6400 (600) is the way to go.
It's generally much cheaper to go 6400 if you can, and the group is pretty handsome. A nice set of 600 STI's just went on eBay recently, there are often some out there. Square taper has some versatility if you decided to do some switching....

However....

If you go 6500, meaning Octalink, the bb's are known to be pretty durable, you can use anything from 105 to DA, and often you can find a new 105 crankset for under $35. I don't know if there are any FD issues as far as range of movement or not. I've run that 600 tricolor FD/RD with 9-sp cassette and STI's and had no problems before, though.

Good luck, and pics are a must.
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Old 05-24-09, 12:17 PM   #10
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Thanks for your invaluable input.

I am currently scouring ebay for parts and I'll definitely update this post once the bike is finished.

Thanks again!
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Old 05-24-09, 02:46 PM   #11
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Not sure anyone mentioned, but bike originally came with a double crankset, not a triple.
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