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Old 07-02-09, 01:07 PM   #1
Mike Mills
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MASI Grand Criterium

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=330340621202

This one just singings to me. I can hardly resist. No,... I must resist. The geometery is identical to my Bob Jackson. It's even red, like my Jackson. I don't need two RED criteriums.

I... I...

Must resist, must, resis......
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Old 07-02-09, 04:30 PM   #2
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I'd have snatched that up in a second! I know how you're feeling, unless you...
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Old 07-02-09, 04:34 PM   #3
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No, it wasn't me.

It sold via "Buy It Now" just 30 minutes after I posted this thread. Coincidence? I think not. That was a beauty. Someone got a beautiful bike.
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Old 07-02-09, 04:35 PM   #4
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They sure did! Be still my heart....
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Old 07-02-09, 04:43 PM   #5
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It sold via "Buy It Now" just 30 minutes after I posted this thread.
No, the seller pulled it. That's not $1600 worth of vintage Masi in my book, especially with that relatively inelegant fork bend. But to each his own.
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Old 07-02-09, 04:57 PM   #6
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My 1980 has a very similar bend. What would you have thought is right for that bike?

I'd rather see tubulars on it, but, well, that's just me.
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Old 07-02-09, 05:29 PM   #7
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My 1980 has a very similar bend. What would you have thought is right for that bike?
I'd prefer something less dog-leggy and more gradual, like the bend Faliero was famous for and like the earlier Carlsbad GC's had.

Here's Bob's '74 GC - see the difference?

http://bhovey.com/Masi/74Masi289/MasiFull.jpg

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Old 07-02-09, 07:22 PM   #8
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yes, Bob's bike has a more gradual bend.
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Old 07-02-09, 07:36 PM   #9
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Oh, you're right, it was pulled by the seller. He had three offers. I wonder if he had others offline, too? I don't know what was the right price for that but it surely was a nice-looking bike (except for the seat).
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Old 07-02-09, 07:40 PM   #10
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Mike,

I think you would have loved it! The ride and handling of my Masi are wonderful. I wish mine was 2 cm bigger, because I'm using some pretty distorted parts to get comfortable.

I can't say if Picchio is ultimately right about the price, but several Masi GCs in the past few months have gone out at that price.

look at it this way; a great bike that you'll ride allows you to get rid of two that you won't: n+1-2=n-1.
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Old 07-02-09, 07:46 PM   #11
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I can't say if Picchio is ultimately right about the price, but several Masi GCs in the past few months have gone out at that price.
Not all GC's are the same. I think the price was strong for a post-Carlsbad bike. Not unjustifiable, but strong for a bike with little connection to the shop Faliero started. It was attractive, for sure. But $1600 buys a lot of vintage bicycle.
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Old 07-02-09, 07:52 PM   #12
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If it's really a 1984, then yes, it is quite far removed from Carlsbad, but I don't recognize that particular S/N interpretation. Need Bob! But weren't there some very fine builders in the Masi pool back then? Tesch, Eisentraut, and Moulton?

Mine is from 1980, just after the passing of Confente. Either Rob Roberson, Lippy, or Kirkbride.
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Old 07-02-09, 08:01 PM   #13
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If it's really a 1984, then yes, it is quite far removed from Carlsbad, but I don't recognize that particular S/N interpretation. Need Bob! But weren't there some very fine builders in the Masi pool back then? Tesch, Eisentraut, and Moulton?

Mine is from 1980, just after the passing of Confente. Either Rob Roberson, Lippy, or Kirkbride.
Yes, they were good builders. But like I said, $1600 buys a lot of vintage bike. You could probably get a vintage custom Tesch or Moulton (or Bruce Gordon, or a bunch of other guys) for that money (though it might require sonme patience.) Eisentraut was earlier, Masi-wise. Confente left Masi in '76, I believe.
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Old 07-02-09, 08:56 PM   #14
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[URL]The geometery is identical to my Bob Jackson. It's even red, like my Jackson. I don't need two RED criteriums.
Here's a tip. While this model of bike is named Gran Criterium, it does not have a "criterium" geometry. Gran Criteriums were made to be ridden all day on all roads. Well, maybe American roads.

And while that fork isn't as elegant looking as the Carlsbad units, it still yields a very nice ride.
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Old 07-03-09, 12:33 AM   #15
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He still has a 74 listed.

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Old 07-03-09, 01:10 AM   #16
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Yowzah! That's another nice one. The paint job is classic on that one but it doesn't leave me lusting after it the way that red (metalflake or candy apple?) one did.

That particular blue color is very familiar to me. When I was a kid, the owners of the local shop had two bikes in that color. They were branded as ROLLS but looked every bit like Colnagos - even the clubs and the pantographing. I always wanted one of those but (of course) never got it. 20 years ago, I was surfing ebay, when ebay was a new thing and there it was! I'm not kidding, it was one of the two ROLS available for sale by the bike shop owners. I still wanted it but it was too small for me. I wonder how Bill (the shop owner) is doing these days. He must be getting on in years. I know I am.


"Rosebud,..."

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Old 07-03-09, 05:46 AM   #17
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Yowzah! That's another nice one. The paint job is classic on that one but it doesn't leave me lusting after it the way that red (metalflake or candy apple?) one did.
You can never go wrong buying what really grabs you.
The blue one is of course more "collectible," and the price is even decent, excepting the larger size. They're both priced pretty well - strong, but within range enough that someone might well take a shot.
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Old 07-03-09, 10:19 AM   #18
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A Masi Gran Criterium was the star of "Breaking Away."
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Old 07-05-09, 11:37 PM   #19
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Are we allowed to discuss products for sale by others on this forum?

For instance, if I were to say, the blue MASI GC seems over-priced ($2k) given that it has clinchers and galvanized spokes, a crappy seat, repro lever hoods and no bar tape, would that be okay? It has some good components on it, too. However, it seems like it needs new wheels (hubs, rims, spokes, tires) and a few doodads that could easily cost $500-$600 above and beyond the purchase price. That would take it up into the $2500 range. It is a very nice bike but it is far from pristine. I thought $2k was high but when I realized I'd have to add all that additional equipment, it seems very high, really like a deal breaker. What do you thin k about that assessment? Am I being fair, or do I just not understand the price/value of an older MASI?

If the above is inappropriate, I will remove it.
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Old 07-05-09, 11:50 PM   #20
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Are we allowed to discuss products for sale by others on this forum?

For instance, if I were to say, the blue MASI GC seems over-priced ($2k) given that it has clinchers and galvanized spokes, a crappy seat, repro lever hoods and no bar tape, would that be okay? It has some good components on it, too. However, it seems like it needs new wheels (hubs, rims, spokes, tires) and a few doodads that could easily cost $500-$600 above and beyond the purchase price. That would take it up into the $2500 range. It is a very nice bike but it is far from pristine. I thought $2k was high but when I realized I'd have to add all that additional equipment, it seems very high, really like a deal breaker. What do you thin k about that assessment? Am I being fair, or do I just not understand the price/value of an older MASI?

If the above is inappropriate, I will remove it.
Dunno if it's appropriate (haven't been here long enough), but IMHO you're correct.

The high-end prices of the vintage lightweight spectrum should reflect a bike that wants for nothing. I use modern rims on my vintage rigs, so if I ever sold one I would definately have to take that under consideration. Or offer a pair of PC rims and deduct the cost of a wheelbuild!

Gotta agree: 2K is 2 much. But somebody will probably snag it anyway; good memories sometimes dictate rash behavior. We've all been there...right?
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Old 07-06-09, 04:51 AM   #21
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Gotta agree: 2K is 2 much. But somebody will probably snag it anyway; good memories sometimes dictate rash behavior.
What would be "rash" about purchasing it, exactly? My guess is that if someone bought it, they'd know exactly what they were doing. For instance, they'd know that relatively clean, mostly original early Carlsbad GC's are as sure to increase in value as just about anything in vintage bikedom. They'd know that finding one in exactly their size would not necessarily be easy.
IMO, both of those GC's were priced high. But the blue one has guaranteed long-term collectibility, and at 2K any overpayment would very likely be recouped down the road. Harder to say with the red one.
Keep in mind, GC's are differentiated by more than color and condition. The blue one is one of the last truly desirable Masis, IMO (early Prestiges excepted). It was built under Mario's oversight in the facility set up by Faliero using pressed lugs that took lots of time and effort to get right - i.e. the traditional way. Only about 1100-1200 pressed lug GC's were built in Carlsbad from late 1973 to sometime in 1975. After that, the mojo went out of the balloon fast. I'm sure the red one rides nicely, but the blue one is way more special, IMO.
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Old 07-06-09, 06:46 AM   #22
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What would be "rash" about purchasing it, exactly? My guess is that if someone bought it, they'd know exactly what they were doing. For instance, they'd know that relatively clean, mostly original early Carlsbad GC's are as sure to increase in value as just about anything in vintage bikedom. They'd know that finding one in exactly their size would not necessarily be easy.
IMO, both of those GC's were priced high. But the blue one has guaranteed long-term collectibility, and at 2K any overpayment would very likely be recouped down the road. Harder to say with the red one.
Keep in mind, GC's are differentiated by more than color and condition. The blue one is one of the last truly desirable Masis, IMO (early Prestiges excepted). It was built under Mario's oversight in the facility set up by Faliero using pressed lugs that took lots of time and effort to get right - i.e. the traditional way. Only about 1100-1200 pressed lug GC's were built in Carlsbad from late 1973 to sometime in 1975. After that, the mojo went out of the balloon fast. I'm sure the red one rides nicely, but the blue one is way more special, IMO.
Never rode one of that vintage! A bud here had a '74 near my size, but he sold it before I had a chance to ride it.

Do those older design and fabrication characteristics result have a particular effect on how they ride? Can you describe it?
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Old 07-06-09, 07:00 AM   #23
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Are we allowed to discuss products for sale by others on this forum?

For instance, if I were to say, the blue MASI GC seems over-priced ($2k) given that it has clinchers and galvanized spokes, a crappy seat, repro lever hoods and no bar tape, would that be okay? It has some good components on it, too. However, it seems like it needs new wheels (hubs, rims, spokes, tires) and a few doodads that could easily cost $500-$600 above and beyond the purchase price. That would take it up into the $2500 range. It is a very nice bike but it is far from pristine. I thought $2k was high but when I realized I'd have to add all that additional equipment, it seems very high, really like a deal breaker. What do you thin k about that assessment? Am I being fair, or do I just not understand the price/value of an older MASI?

If the above is inappropriate, I will remove it.
Overall, you're accurate. But perhaps not on the cost of wheels. Allow $200 for a pair of Veloflex Servizio Corse based on the previous Tubular thread. Proper Martano rims would be $300 a pair, so just wait until you need them. Very good sets of tubular wheels used with Campy hubs go for $100 to $200 on Ebay. You may need to replace a rear axle and, when available, a skewer to accommodate the 120 mm spacing versus the more common 126.

You could also get the tires and a set of silver Mavic rims, probably another $100 for rims, and if lucky with rim ERD lace the tubular rims onto the existing hubs. You could also start out with YJ Servizio Corse tires at 3 for $50, and buy used rims to make the tubie conversion. Depends on what your starting and ultimate goals are.

Cinelli tape is $15 to $30 a roll. Velox cotton twill is much less. Not an issue.

Take a saddle from an existing bike in your stable. You don't yet know what saddle would work for you on this frame (I'd start with a used Brooks Pro or Team Pro, myself!). Don't go for full style correctness in one shot, that WILL cost big $$. A vintage Unicanitor or ??

But you'd be experiencing the classic ride right away. It would just get a little better with each improvement, and you'd experience the value of each improvement - such as with tubular tire cost increases.
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Old 07-06-09, 07:03 AM   #24
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need also to see if the seller has the toeclips and straps. Do we think this blue Masi has original parts, or was assembled from spares? The pedals are the correct type, but there should be Campy aluminum toeclips and (at least mine came with) Binda laminated straps. The straps alone can be $60. The only good reason I can think of not to have clips and straps is that the seller sourced the pedals on Ebay and they came without the retention.

No Reynolds sticker, and the hoods appear to be Modolo on Campy levers. Very comfy and functional hoods and a common period upgrade, but not likely original.

Did Faliero's Carlsbad crew mix and match tubesets? I thought 531 was their standard load, tho I'm aware the brochures offerred tubeset options. But no sticker suggests mixed tube sourcing, i.e. some tubes are Columbus and some are Reynolds. Or is it a repaint with partially restored insignias?

'bars look to me like Cinelli 66, but I could be wrong. Did Faliero use Cinelli bars, or (to keep from sourcing a rival) use 3TTT primarily?

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Old 07-06-09, 07:05 AM   #25
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Do those older design and fabrication characteristics result have a particular effect on how they ride?
No, they don't. Though an early 70's GC will ride differently from a mid-80's one because the later one will have a bit more aggressive geometry, AFAIK.
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