Cycling and bicycle discussion forums. 
   Click here to join our community Log in to access your Control Panel  


Go Back   > >

Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 07-12-09, 07:49 PM   #1
ilikebikes
K2ProFlex baby!
Thread Starter
 
ilikebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
Bikes: to many to list
Posts: 6,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
French crank with a Shimano bb?

I placed a tapered French Stronglight crank on a tapered Shimano BB, are they tapered differently? will I have problems with it? If so is there any way (besides a Phil Wood BB) that I can make it work? (assumeing there is a problem?)
__________________
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve

Last edited by ilikebikes; 07-12-09 at 08:14 PM.
ilikebikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-09, 08:29 PM   #2
High Fist Shin
The Brave Descender
 
High Fist Shin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: S.E. Pennsylvania
Bikes: Univega Viva Touring, Cannondale Six/13
Posts: 2,074
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
It shouldn't be a problem. Just measure your chainline for proper fit. Your Stronglight crank should be ISO taper and your Shimano spindle should be JIS taper.

Sheldon has the answer:

ISO/J.I.S. Interchangeability
If you install an ISO crank on a J.I.S. spindle, it will sit about 4.5 mm farther out than it would on an ISO spindle of the same length.
Confersely, if you install a J.I.S. crank on an ISO spindle, it will wind up about 4.5 mm farther in than it would on a J.I.S spindle of the same length.

Theoretically, ISO cranks should only be used on ISO spindles, and J.I.S. cranks only on J.I.S. spindles.

In practice, you can very often get away with mixing these sizes, as long as you select a spindle length that gives the desired chainline.

Taper matching was fairly important back in the day of loose-ball cup-and-cone bottom brackets, because these required regular maintenance/overhauls, and this required removal of the cranks. Every time you remove and re-install a square taper crank, the hole in the crank is liable to get very slightly larger.

This was particularly an issue when using J.I.S. cranks on ISO spindles, because over time, as the crank went on farther and farther, you could run out of taper, and the square end of the spindle would become flush with the surface the crank fixing bolt/washer pushed against. At that point, further tightening of the bolt won't make the crank any tighter, since the bolt is bumping onto the end of the spindle.

These days, however, most folks are using sealed cartridge bearing bottom brackets. With these, there is no routine maintenance required, so typically the crank will be installed once, and will stay in place unless/until the bottom bracket needs to be replaced. This greatly reduces problems of wear to the interface.

I generally avoid mixing sizes on customers' bikes, but I have a lot of experience mixing ISO/J.I.S. in both directions on my own personal bikes, and it as never given me a lick of trouble.
__________________
In life there are no mistakes, only lessons. -Shin
High Fist Shin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-09, 08:36 PM   #3
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Bikes: 1959 Capo; 1980 Peugeot PKN-10; 1981 Bianchi; 1988 Schwinn KOM-10;
Posts: 16,902
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 23 Post(s)
Having cracked a Campagnolo Veloce crank at the spindle eye, possibly from mounting it on a later and larger Campagnolo BB spindle, I would avoid mix-and-match.
__________________
"Early to bed, early to rise. Work like hell, and advertise." -- George Stahlman
Capo [dschaw'-poe]: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger, S/N 42624
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1981 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-09, 08:58 PM   #4
ilikebikes
K2ProFlex baby!
Thread Starter
 
ilikebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
Bikes: to many to list
Posts: 6,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Machin Shin View Post
It shouldn't be a problem. Just measure your chainline for proper fit. Your Stronglight crank should be ISO taper and your Shimano spindle should be JIS taper.

Sheldon has the answer:

ISO/J.I.S. Interchangeability
If you install an ISO crank on a J.I.S. spindle, it will sit about 4.5 mm farther out than it would on an ISO spindle of the same length.
Confersely, if you install a J.I.S. crank on an ISO spindle, it will wind up about 4.5 mm farther in than it would on a J.I.S spindle of the same length.

Theoretically, ISO cranks should only be used on ISO spindles, and J.I.S. cranks only on J.I.S. spindles.

In practice, you can very often get away with mixing these sizes, as long as you select a spindle length that gives the desired chainline.

Taper matching was fairly important back in the day of loose-ball cup-and-cone bottom brackets, because these required regular maintenance/overhauls, and this required removal of the cranks. Every time you remove and re-install a square taper crank, the hole in the crank is liable to get very slightly larger.

This was particularly an issue when using J.I.S. cranks on ISO spindles, because over time, as the crank went on farther and farther, you could run out of taper, and the square end of the spindle would become flush with the surface the crank fixing bolt/washer pushed against. At that point, further tightening of the bolt won't make the crank any tighter, since the bolt is bumping onto the end of the spindle.

These days, however, most folks are using sealed cartridge bearing bottom brackets. With these, there is no routine maintenance required, so typically the crank will be installed once, and will stay in place unless/until the bottom bracket needs to be replaced. This greatly reduces problems of wear to the interface.

I generally avoid mixing sizes on customers' bikes, but I have a lot of experience mixing ISO/J.I.S. in both directions on my own personal bikes, and it as never given me a lick of trouble.

I'll take Sheldons advice. Thanks Machin Shin, no disrepect John E, but Sheldons still "The Man" when it comes to advice on bikes.
__________________
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
ilikebikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-09, 09:06 PM   #5
Ex Pres
#39
 
Ex Pres's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: the 35223 (AL)
Bikes:
Posts: 6,241
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
I'm currently using a Shimano BB with a Stronglight 104.
Ex Pres is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-09, 09:08 PM   #6
Charles Wahl
Disraeli Gears
 
Charles Wahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: NYC
Bikes:
Posts: 3,083
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Take Sheldon's advice, but recognize that you're giving up around 4.5 mm of the overlap between taper and spindle, your crank bolt is 4.5 mm less "engaged" in the spindle threads, and there's 4.5 mm more "air" between the head of the crank bolt and the end of the spindle; so if your crank splits or your arms get wobbly and the sockets are galled, please don't come crying to us!
Charles Wahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-09, 09:17 PM   #7
ilikebikes
K2ProFlex baby!
Thread Starter
 
ilikebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
Bikes: to many to list
Posts: 6,086
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wahl View Post
Take Sheldon's advice, but recognize that you're giving up around 4.5 mm of the overlap between taper and spindle, your crank bolt is 4.5 mm less "engaged" in the spindle threads, and there's 4.5 mm more "air" between the head of the crank bolt and the end of the spindle; so if your crank splits or your arms get wobbly and the sockets are galled, please don't come crying to us!
Why would I come crying to you or anyone else on this forum if that happens? ^^^that^^^ ending statement doesn't make any damned sense?
__________________
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve

Last edited by ilikebikes; 07-12-09 at 09:22 PM.
ilikebikes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:34 PM.