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Old 08-14-09, 08:04 PM   #1
Agke
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10 speed 126mm hub?

I just picked up a Peugeot PY10FC frame, and I would like to build it up 10 speed. Being carbon and aluminum (and 20 years old!), I don't really want to mess with the 126mm rear spacing. Is there such a thing as a 126mm rear hub that can go 10 speed?
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Old 08-14-09, 10:47 PM   #2
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No, 10-speed only came out a few years ago and they are 130mm spacing - and don't even think about trying to spread a CF/aluminum frame. You're going to have to stick with 7-speed on that frame.
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Old 08-15-09, 06:03 AM   #3
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I was at the local shop yesterday and they had a bonded aluminum Guerciotti from the early 80's with a 10-speed Campy wheelset. I should have inquired as to how they did it.

Did the simply flex open the frame by hand?
Was it cold set?
Did they re-align the dropout faces?

I'll check later today.
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Old 08-15-09, 07:39 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Agke View Post
I just picked up a Peugeot PY10FC frame, and I would like to build it up 10 speed. Being carbon and aluminum (and 20 years old!), I don't really want to mess with the 126mm rear spacing. Is there such a thing as a 126mm rear hub that can go 10 speed?
If it's that narrow, you aren't going to be able to use some of those gears, anyway, so it sounds like a nice 7-sp range would do.

That's a nice frame, and my only recommendation is a 7-sp RSX STI setup, and there are some beautiful 7-sp wheelsets out there with Shimano hubs and often Mavic rims...add some nice polished components to the mix, and you'll have a bike that rides as well as any 10-sp setup, shifts the same, and keeps the vintage look all around.
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Old 08-15-09, 09:42 AM   #5
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I was at the local shop yesterday and they had a bonded aluminum Guerciotti from the early 80's with a 10-speed Campy wheelset. I should have inquired as to how they did it.

Did the simply flex open the frame by hand?
Was it cold set?
Did they re-align the dropout faces?

I'll check later today.
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Old 08-15-09, 10:56 AM   #6
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While I have not done it, Sheldon Brown says you can run 8 cogs and spacers from a 9 speed cassette on a 7 speed freehub body. This requires 9 speed shifters and chain. So 8 out of 9 is the most I have heard anybody run on a 126mm rear wheel. Incidentally, has anyone tried this? Just curious.
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Old 08-15-09, 02:35 PM   #7
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I have done it on my current bike and there is enough stuff online for me to feel secure putting 130mm hub in a 126mm rear. You can't cold set aluminum, you just need to spread it apart and pop the rear end in. I'm not sure about carbon and aluminum bike, I would suspect the main tubes are carbon and the stays are aluminum? That might not be safe, but an aluminum bike can be spread; i've got over 5000 miles on an original 7sp bike with a 130mm rear hub and feel confident enough that i never worry about it.
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Old 08-15-09, 05:04 PM   #8
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Thanks for the responses everyone. I am not sure I am reading Sheldon's website right, but I think I might be able to get an old 126mm 7 or 8 speed Dura Ace Uniglide hub, and replace the Freehub body with an 8-speed Hyperglide unit FW7403. Then, with an 8-speed Hyperglide freehub body on it, I would be able to use any 8-, 9- or 10-speed cassette that doesn't include an 11 tooth sproket.

Of course, this would take some doing, and I don't have the special tool needed for swapping out the freehubs. But I think it might be theoretically possible. The entire rear triangle is aluminum, so I might be able to spread the frame by hand to take a 130mm hub, but I would more nervous doing it on this frame, just because of the age and the materials.
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Old 08-15-09, 05:12 PM   #9
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I stopped by the shop and talked to the owner of the bike. He flexed the stays open by hand and slid the wheel in. I asked if he realigned the dropout faces and he said 'no'.

The wheels he used are Campy Khamsin w/ 130mm spacing.
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Old 08-15-09, 05:28 PM   #10
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Thanks for the responses everyone. I am not sure I am reading Sheldon's website right, but I think I might be able to get an old 126mm 7 or 8 speed Dura Ace Uniglide hub, and replace the Freehub body with an 8-speed Hyperglide unit FW7403. Then, with an 8-speed Hyperglide freehub body on it, I would be able to use any 8-, 9- or 10-speed cassette that doesn't include an 11 tooth sproket.

Of course, this would take some doing, and I don't have the special tool needed for swapping out the freehubs. But I think it might be theoretically possible. The entire rear triangle is aluminum, so I might be able to spread the frame by hand to take a 130mm hub, but I would more nervous doing it on this frame, just because of the age and the materials.

You can spread the frame by hand to 130mm but to very honest with you......DONT DO IT. It reality spreading the frame doesnt pull the dropout faces out of alignment by much but considering how delicate the Vitus/CLB aluminum is I wouldnt take a chance.

What I would do is use a 126mm hub with 'hyperglide' compatibility and run it as a 7-speed. That would be any hub with a lockring to secure the cassette versus a final cog.
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Old 08-15-09, 08:59 PM   #11
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Thanks for the info Miamijim. I don't plan on putting any needless stress on the frame - 126mm hub is all that is going in the rear triangle. What hub that is, I need to decide...
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Old 08-15-09, 09:03 PM   #12
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Thanks for the info Miamijim. I don't plan on putting any needless stress on the frame - 126mm hub is all that is going in the rear triangle. What hub that is, I need to decide...

Dura Ace hubs use a different attaching mechanism for the freehub body do I'd stay with Shimano 105 or 600 series hubs. Early 105's and 600's are polished silver with some of the later versions version being colored.

An early 105 or 600 hub w/ 126mm spacing mated with a 105SC (FH-1055) freehub body would work well.
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Old 08-15-09, 10:16 PM   #13
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I stopped by the shop and talked to the owner of the bike. He flexed the stays open by hand and slid the wheel in. I asked if he realigned the dropout faces and he said 'no'.

The wheels he used are Campy Khamsin w/ 130mm spacing.
I guess it could just be a case of old wives tales. I have to admit I've never personally heard of an aluminum frame failing because of this but it seems to be pretty much taken for granted that you should never spread an aluminum frame. I'm not found of aluminum bikes anyway so it's unlikely to ever be an issue for me.
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Old 08-15-09, 10:33 PM   #14
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Vitus carbon-aluminum bike here used to run 7 of 8 ok on the original 6 speed DA uniglide 126mm rear.

9 or 10 speeds should be possible on a modified 130mm wheel. I have an early DA 8 speed hub now, with the chamfered nuts which make it easier to slide in the wheel. You can remove a few mm of spacers from a 130mm axle (and might need to re-dish the wheel). If you do this, make sure the axle ends are a couple mm below the dropouts on both sides (can't have them protrude). Just barely got the wider 8 speed cassette to run well with the old DA derailleurs on this old frame.


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While I have not done it, Sheldon Brown says you can run 8 cogs and spacers from a 9 speed cassette on a 7 speed freehub body. This requires 9 speed shifters and chain. So 8 out of 9 is the most I have heard anybody run on a 126mm rear wheel. Incidentally, has anyone tried this? Just curious.
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Old 08-15-09, 11:25 PM   #15
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The aluminum frames that were on the market when the 8sp change was happening were often offered in 128.5mm rear stays so they could accommodate either a 126 or 130 hub. It is perfectly safe to spread an aluminum frame to 130 from 126. I wouldn't want to spread any farther really, but as long as you don't try to cold set the frame you will be fine.
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Old 08-18-09, 08:45 AM   #16
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For my Falcon Merckx, I found a 130mm Ultegra rear hub, respaced it to 126, had a friend lace it up and I'm running a full 9-speed cassette.

If you want to go with the 8 of 9 on 7, like Sheldon suggests, I have the setup for you. I got this before I decided to go full 9-speed. It's an older NOS Uniglide hub for which I have the Hyperglide freehub and correct dust cap but personally I would just suggest you go full 9-speed.
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Old 08-18-09, 08:50 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
I was at the local shop yesterday and they had a bonded aluminum Guerciotti from the early 80's with a 10-speed Campy wheelset. I should have inquired as to how they did it.

Did the simply flex open the frame by hand?
Was it cold set?
Did they re-align the dropout faces?

I'll check later today.
I suspect there's trouble down the road for that bike.
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Old 08-21-09, 09:21 AM   #18
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For my Falcon Merckx, I found a 130mm Ultegra rear hub, respaced it to 126, had a friend lace it up and I'm running a full 9-speed cassette.

If you want to go with the 8 of 9 on 7, like Sheldon suggests, I have the setup for you. I got this before I decided to go full 9-speed. It's an older NOS Uniglide hub for which I have the Hyperglide freehub and correct dust cap but personally I would just suggest you go full 9-speed.
That is interesting what you did with your Falcon - what does it take to respace to 126? Is anything preventing you from running 10 speed on that hub?
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Old 08-21-09, 10:33 AM   #19
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For my Falcon Merckx, I found a 130mm Ultegra rear hub, respaced it to 126, had a friend lace it up and I'm running a full 9-speed cassette.

If you want to go with the 8 of 9 on 7, like Sheldon suggests, I have the setup for you. I got this before I decided to go full 9-speed. It's an older NOS Uniglide hub for which I have the Hyperglide freehub and correct dust cap but personally I would just suggest you go full 9-speed.
Thats alot of dish!!!! I'll betcha the right side spokes have almost no triangulation. A solution is to use an offset rim like the Ritchey or Bontrager.
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Old 08-21-09, 10:35 AM   #20
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That is interesting what you did with your Falcon - what does it take to respace to 126? Is anything preventing you from running 10 speed on that hub?
Respacing is as simple as removing a 4mm spacer from the left side. Not much is keeping it from being run as a 10 speed other than the extreme dish created by removing the 4mm spacer.
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Old 08-22-09, 09:21 PM   #21
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Respacing is as simple as removing a 4mm spacer from the left side. Not much is keeping it from being run as a 10 speed other than the extreme dish created by removing the 4mm spacer.
Exactly. I suppose I could run it as a 10-speed but I had a set of Dura-Ace 9-speed downtube shifters so....

I see you're going to go with a 10-speed setup -- I will be interested in how that turns out! I haven't had a problem with mine and I weigh in at 225 and raced that bike in a criterium without taco-ing the wheel so I suppose it's going to be strong enough.
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Old 08-22-09, 10:55 PM   #22
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Exactly. I suppose I could run it as a 10-speed but I had a set of Dura-Ace 9-speed downtube shifters so....

I see you're going to go with a 10-speed setup -- I will be interested in how that turns out! I haven't had a problem with mine and I weigh in at 225 and raced that bike in a criterium without taco-ing the wheel so I suppose it's going to be strong enough.
Well, I would be interested in attempting to set it up as 10 speed, if the dish isn't too much. Any limitations on which hubs can be respaced - certain years of Ultegra? Dura Ace?
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Old 08-23-09, 04:52 AM   #23
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if the dish isn't too much. Any limitations on which hubs can be respaced - certain years of Ultegra? Dura Ace?
There's a signifiacnt difference in how the hubs are construced so yes, it makes a difference. For instance, a Deore LX 8-speed hub is ~2mm wider on the gear side than an 8-speed Dura-Ace hub. The extra 2mm is compensated for by being spaced to 135mm

A similar problem occurs if you try to install a later 8-speed body on an earlier 7-speed shell. In comparison to a Dura-Ace 8-speed hub an earlier 7-speed hub shell with an 8-speed body will have upto 6.5mm of extra distance on the gear side. To maintain the same dish whatever you roemove from the right must be removed from left. If you remove 2mm from each side (4mm total) you still have a wheel thats out of dish by ~4.5mm because you only removed 2mm from the gear side. 4.5mm is huge!!!

Pic 1 shows spoke angle on a properly dished wheel.
Pic 2 shows the change in dish thats needed when the wheel is respaced to 126mm. TIn terms of dish what you see is huge!!! The wheel I'm working on needs half the dish correction of what you see in the pic.

The hub is question is a Deore LX which has the same distance between the gear side flange and low gear cog as a 7-speed 105SC hub.



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Old 08-23-09, 12:24 PM   #24
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Thanks for the visuals, and to everyone for helping me figure out a way to shoehorn modern technology into an old rear triangle! I think I would like to try to use a Dura Ace 7800 hub and a velocity aerohead OC rim.
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Old 08-23-09, 12:46 PM   #25
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In the real world you'd thing it would ba as easy as removing 2mm from each side but it doesnt work that way. The drive side spacer is 2.5+mm and the left side spacer is ~.5mm.

1. Dura Ace 7404 hub
2. Remove as much spacing as you can from the driveside. The problem is the DA spacer is something like 2.5+mm. If you remove it its going to rub. I removed the 2.5+mm spacer and replaced it with a ~.4mm spacer. It doesnt rub with a 9speed. You may be to use the thin left side spacer.
3. Respace the left side to achieve 126mm. You'll need to ditch the very thick outside locknut and replace it with a thinner locknut and whatever spacers you need to get to 126mm
4. Lace it up with a Ritchey or Bontrager offset rim to achieve the proper dish.

Its not as easy as it sounds.
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