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Old 08-16-09, 09:42 AM   #1
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Use Shimano 6400 "600" with 9 speed?

Can you use a Shimano RD-6400 "600" rear derailleur with a 9 speed cassette? A 12-27 cassette if that makes any difference. From what I have read, I think you can.

And can also use any 9 speed shifter-- including the ultegra and dura-ace 9 speed brifters? Again, I think the answer is yes, but I am looking for some confirmation.

What about the matching front derailleur? Will it work as well?

Jared

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Old 08-16-09, 09:59 AM   #2
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I've used 7-speed 600 and 105 RDs on several 9-speed conversions without a hitch. And, it should have no problem with the 27.

All Shimano brifters should work.

And any FD will do. Really, RD's and FD's are very simple machines.
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Old 08-16-09, 09:59 AM   #3
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the only issue that you might run into is the pulleys. shimano makes a different size to work with 8, 9, and 10 speed chains. i say give it a try as is and if you have issues, swap out the pulleys.

as for shifters, any 9 speed shifter should be compatible. and the front derailer will be fine as well.
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Old 08-16-09, 10:10 AM   #4
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I just used a Shimano 600RD with an 8 speed so it's got the throw, but I don't believe I used anything as tall as a 27. Still it should work all the way up to 28.
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Old 08-16-09, 10:33 AM   #5
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Yes. This bike had exactly that, with a 9-sp Shimano rear and used the same shifters in friction.
Of course, I added a chain and it all worked much better. The OEM tall cog was 26, you should be fine.
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Old 08-28-09, 08:49 PM   #6
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Let me restart this thread again. Here are pictures of the bike in question. It currently is 8 speed with bar ends. It has a 6400 series FD and RD.

I want to go to brifters. I have a friend that will give me a good deal on some dura ace 9 speed brifters. I also have an ultegra 9 speed 12-25 cassette and a new 9 speed chain.

I think that is all I need.

But will that all work together?

And what about the crankset? I could also upgrade the crankset to ultegra 9 speed. But to be honest, if I was going to just change the cranks I would rather find a tricolor 600 crankset that matches the rest of the components.

My other option is that I have an almost complete ultegra 6500 9 speed triple group-- I just need the right BB and FD. The problem there is that I can't decide if I want the triple.

The third option is to get the a 9 speed dura ace RD, a 9 speed ultegra FD, and a 9 speed ultegra crankset from the same friend with the brifters. I know that would work-- the only problem there is funding.

Jared










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Old 08-28-09, 09:20 PM   #7
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beautiful bike. I have done what you're considering and got it to work, it was a little finicky to set up, but worked fine after I got it sorted. Of course, part of the magic is the geometry, widths, etc. in the frameset. I didn't try it with a Paramount, sorry.
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Old 08-29-09, 01:01 PM   #8
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Ok, so we are pretty sure the 6400 series 600 RD can handle nine speeds.

But what about the second part of the question-- will the 600 work with 9 speed dura ace brifters? I think it will, because as I understand it, other than pre-9 speed dura ace, all index shifting compatiable deraillers use the same cable pull ratios.

And what about the third question-- what is the chance those brifters would work with my front cranks as is? That one I have no idea about.

Jared

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Old 08-29-09, 01:17 PM   #9
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it will all work. I've used an even older 105 rear d, and a 6400 fd with 9 speed stis no problem.
It should work fine with your cranks. However, I had a tiagra set of stis which work with both double and triples so maybe the ability to accomodate a triple allowed me to push farther on a wider spaced crankset??
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Old 08-29-09, 01:17 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by sjpitts View Post
will the 600 work with 9 speed dura ace brifters? I think it will, because as I understand it, other than pre-9 speed dura ace, all index shifting compatiable deraillers use the same cable pull ratios.

And what about the third question-- what is the chance those brifters would work with my front cranks as is? That one I have no idea about.

Jared
Dura Ace STI levers may not work with any derailleur other than a Dura Ace. Dura Ace uses a different throw ratio than Ultegra which may pose a problem. My advice is to try it. If it doesnt work the proper solution is only a Dura Ace derailleur away!!

Chances are very good the STI levers will work with your crankset.
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Old 08-29-09, 01:33 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
Dura Ace STI levers may not work with any derailleur other than a Dura Ace. Dura Ace uses a different throw ratio than Ultegra which may pose a problem. My advice is to try it. If it doesnt work the proper solution is only a Dura Ace derailleur away!!

Chances are very good the STI levers will work with your crankset.
I just changed out my worn-out & rattling Ultegra 9 speed levers with a new 9 speed DA set & have no compatibility problems at all with the Ultegra deraillers.

I have the tri-color 600 deraillers on another bike & have run up to a 12-30 8-speed cassette with 53-39 chainrings without any trouble. Just set your chain length carefully.
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Old 08-29-09, 03:58 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by sjpitts View Post
Can you use a Shimano RD-6400 "600" rear derailleur with a 9 speed cassette? Yes. A 12-27 cassette if that makes any difference. From what I have read, I think you can.

And can also use any 9 speed shifter-- including the ultegra and dura-ace 9 speed brifters? Ultegra, probably, and I've done it with Sora.

Dura Ace, not so sure, as it really liked to be matched to a 9-sp RD.From what I know, it's 7400-7400 and 7700-7700 and not adviseable to mix and match outside that. Others here will correct me, I'm sure. This is definitely the place to find that out.
Again, I think the answer is yes, but I am looking for some confirmation.

What about the matching front derailleur? Will it work as well? Yes.

Jared
That's what I know. I've used Shimano 600EX, Shimano 600 tricolor, and Suntour GPX FD and RD's with 9-sp shifters, and they worked well. I've not used any with Dura Ace 9-sp shifters, but when you spend the kind of money it takes to get 9-sp DA shifters, you're probably better off with a matching RD, I'd say.
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Old 08-29-09, 05:21 PM   #13
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Ok, I went and re-read sheldon brown on the subject.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html

He says that Dura Ace stuff was different prior to 9 speed. After 9 speed it was the same. Quoting Sheldon:


"The major difference between pre-1997 Dura-Ace and the rest of the Shimano lines is the cable travel of the rear derailer. Old Dura-Ace used a shorter amount of cable travel per shift. This has to do with the geometry of the cable attachment. Since the cable moved a shorter distance per shift, effects of cable friction or inaccurate cable adjustment were magnified. With the introduction of the 6-speed 600EX S.I.S. group, they changed the cable attachment on the rear derailer, so that the cable had to move farther per shift. This reduced cable tension, reduced the effects of cable misadjustment and friction, and generally made for a more forgiving system. All subsequent S.I.S. groups matched the travel of the 600EX, and the same geometry was adapted for 9-speed Dura-Ace when it was introduced in 1997."




And if you look at his chart, it says that "any 9 speed shifter" can be used with "any 1997 or later Shimano Rear Derailer" OR "Any S.I.S. Rear Derailer Except pre-1997 Dura-Ace"


And I believe that my 600 RD is SIS-- so according to Sheldon I should be good.


Now you guys are right, I should by the matching Dura Ace RD. I really just don't have the funds.


Jared


PS-- my RD is SIS, right? EDIT-- checked Velobase. My 600 RD is SIS.

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Old 08-29-09, 05:55 PM   #14
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yes.. your rd is sis.
That 9speed dura ace sti should work. i dont think it is pre-1997. I think pre97 is 8speed or less. you shoudl be fine. No need to buy the matching rear derailleur.
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