what do I need to know to get new cranks
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Santa Fe
Posts: 380
Bikes: Peugeot something 1975
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
what do I need to know to get new cranks
Hi, I have a 1975 Peugeot and I want to change out the cottered cranks to cotterless cranks. I am so ignorant about this stuff that I don't even know what I don't know. So, that's why I'm asking you all to help me understand what I need to complete the change. Does the axle have to be changed? Will I have to change out the chain rings? Please help a girl out!
#2
Señor Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,923
Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1491 Post(s)
Liked 1,090 Times
in
638 Posts
Whether you need to get new chainrings depends on what size chainrings the old and new cranksets would take. It's possible you could find something that uses the same size as what you have now, but that might limit the choices you would have for your crankset.
At minimum, you will need to change the crankset and the spindle (what you might be calling the axle). It is quite possible that you may need to change the bottom bracket as well. If this proves to be the case, you will need (98% certain) to locate a suitable French threaded bottom bracket.
It would be ideal if you can find a friend, or LBS that has experience doing this. Without the proper tools, removing the current configuration could prove a challenge, and acquiring what you will be replacing it with could be hit and miss - until you hit upon the right combination of sizes that you need.
There are people here who could talk you through this, but it could be quite the adventure.
A good starting point would either be good pictures, or a description of what you have on there now, and what you have in mind to replace it.
At minimum, you will need to change the crankset and the spindle (what you might be calling the axle). It is quite possible that you may need to change the bottom bracket as well. If this proves to be the case, you will need (98% certain) to locate a suitable French threaded bottom bracket.
It would be ideal if you can find a friend, or LBS that has experience doing this. Without the proper tools, removing the current configuration could prove a challenge, and acquiring what you will be replacing it with could be hit and miss - until you hit upon the right combination of sizes that you need.
There are people here who could talk you through this, but it could be quite the adventure.
A good starting point would either be good pictures, or a description of what you have on there now, and what you have in mind to replace it.
__________________
In search of what to search for.
In search of what to search for.
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Prestwick South Ayrshire Scotland United Kingdom
Posts: 61
Bikes: Claude Butler Anteous mountain bike road tyres.Apollo CX10 hybrid Various old road bikes.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Hello I changed from cottered to non cottered on a peugeot and all I had to change over was the spindle (axle). I was able to re use the rest of the bottom bracket, bearing, cups, balls, etc. I think the donor spindle came off a raleigh. The raleigh spindle was also a little shorter in length as it did not need to cater for the cutaway on the spindle to fit the cotter pins. Perhaps you could get or you may have any rubbish bike to practice removing the bottom bearing if you have not tackled this job before. Cheers.
#4
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 27,199
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked 1,409 Times
in
909 Posts
It could be as simple as replacing the spindle, but there are a lot of crank sets that would fit once you get the spindle changed, and therein lies the rub.
I've always just fixed the immediate problem first (to a spindle with square taper) and worry about the next step, because it often takes care of itself.
So that's what I'd do, either replace the spindle or the bottom bracket, and go from there. The length of spindle, etc is better handled when you can provide some info and pics.
This is where to get help, though.
I've always just fixed the immediate problem first (to a spindle with square taper) and worry about the next step, because it often takes care of itself.
So that's what I'd do, either replace the spindle or the bottom bracket, and go from there. The length of spindle, etc is better handled when you can provide some info and pics.
This is where to get help, though.
#5
Thrifty Bill
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Mountains of Western NC
Posts: 23,525
Bikes: 86 Katakura Silk, 87 Prologue X2, 88 Cimarron LE, 1975 Sekai 4000 Professional, 73 Paramount, plus more
Mentioned: 96 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked 964 Times
in
628 Posts
Yes you will have to change out the spindle.
Yes you will have to replace the crankset.
You need to find a local dealer with a box full of old spindles to help you in this quest. Spindles are cheap, its just finding the right one to fit your bike.
You can find nice vintage cranksets on ebay all the time. I have bought several that way.
Yes you will have to replace the crankset.
You need to find a local dealer with a box full of old spindles to help you in this quest. Spindles are cheap, its just finding the right one to fit your bike.
You can find nice vintage cranksets on ebay all the time. I have bought several that way.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,213
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
What crank are you changing to?
Here's what a quick Ebay search found:
https://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-nuovo...d=p3286.c0.m14
Here's what a quick Ebay search found:
https://cgi.ebay.com/Campagnolo-nuovo...d=p3286.c0.m14
#8
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,798
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1393 Post(s)
Liked 1,325 Times
in
837 Posts
Don't forget bearing cup thickness, typically either 3 or 5 mm, which dictates the required spacing between your spindle's bearing races. If you want to reuse your old cups, you will need to a new spindle with the same bearing face spacing as your current one.
I put Sugino cranks on a ca. 1974 UO-8 and ended up buying the crankset, matching cups, and spindle.
As far as I know, the only cotterless aluminum spider which can take your existing steel chainrings (why bother?) is the TA Professional, whose 3-bolt BCD matches that of most European cottered cranks.
I put Sugino cranks on a ca. 1974 UO-8 and ended up buying the crankset, matching cups, and spindle.
As far as I know, the only cotterless aluminum spider which can take your existing steel chainrings (why bother?) is the TA Professional, whose 3-bolt BCD matches that of most European cottered cranks.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#9
Disraeli Gears
Assuming that your bottom bracket is French-threaded (almost certain, but should be verified) one option might be:
Find a TA Cyclotouriste (Pro 5 vis) or Stronglight 93 or 49D crankset on eBay. The 93 may be easier to find replacement chainrings for if you need to do that (# teeth or condition).
Find a TA (aka Specialités TA) or Stronglight bottom bracket on eBay with spindle length 118 mm for double chainrings (dunno for triple) -- either one is OK.
Alternative, cheaper:
Get a sealed-bearing bottom bracket from Velo-Orange.com with French cups. These have JIS-standard spindle ends; so:
Get a Japanese (JIS-standard spindle, not Stronglight or TA) crankset -- in much more plentiful supply. And you could go with 110 BCD (bolt-circle diameter) cranks to put smaller rings on the set, if you like.
The crap-shoot here is you need to know what length spindle you need for a given crankset. Stronglight and TA used 118 forever (and more recently, not, I think), while the various people making JIS cranksets are all over the place; plus the double or triple thing require different lengths, and then there's offset (spindle longer on driveside than non-drive side) vs symmetrical (which I believe VOs BBs are, but confirm).
To make it even more complicated, not all Japanese cranks are JIS standard -- some are Campagnolo standard (Sugino Mighty Competition, Suntour Superbe and Sprint, Dura-Ace AX for example), but these are high-end and the exception.
If you have a particular crankset in mind, then finding a bottom bracket to fit, even on a French bike, is easier than doing it the other way around. Sutherland's Manual (at least older editions) has pretty good information for spindle/bottom bracket mixing and matching with cranksets -- someone here can help you with what's going to work, at least in theory.
Find a TA Cyclotouriste (Pro 5 vis) or Stronglight 93 or 49D crankset on eBay. The 93 may be easier to find replacement chainrings for if you need to do that (# teeth or condition).
Find a TA (aka Specialités TA) or Stronglight bottom bracket on eBay with spindle length 118 mm for double chainrings (dunno for triple) -- either one is OK.
Alternative, cheaper:
Get a sealed-bearing bottom bracket from Velo-Orange.com with French cups. These have JIS-standard spindle ends; so:
Get a Japanese (JIS-standard spindle, not Stronglight or TA) crankset -- in much more plentiful supply. And you could go with 110 BCD (bolt-circle diameter) cranks to put smaller rings on the set, if you like.
The crap-shoot here is you need to know what length spindle you need for a given crankset. Stronglight and TA used 118 forever (and more recently, not, I think), while the various people making JIS cranksets are all over the place; plus the double or triple thing require different lengths, and then there's offset (spindle longer on driveside than non-drive side) vs symmetrical (which I believe VOs BBs are, but confirm).
To make it even more complicated, not all Japanese cranks are JIS standard -- some are Campagnolo standard (Sugino Mighty Competition, Suntour Superbe and Sprint, Dura-Ace AX for example), but these are high-end and the exception.
If you have a particular crankset in mind, then finding a bottom bracket to fit, even on a French bike, is easier than doing it the other way around. Sutherland's Manual (at least older editions) has pretty good information for spindle/bottom bracket mixing and matching with cranksets -- someone here can help you with what's going to work, at least in theory.
#11
Senior Member
Here the Velo-Orange part:
https://www.velo-orange.com/grcrufrthbob.html
I may be buying this and trying to fit a Shimano crank to a '72 Peugeot (I've got a '75 also). And I may be doing it within the next month, so if you are in no hurry, I can get back to you with my results. Send me a reminder pm, if you want.
The spindle length is the big issue for me. Although the idea of symmetrical bb's (as Charles mentioned) was news that I'll have to plan for. I'll get the crank first, then try to determine the spindle length by estimating the required clearance between crank arms and chainstays. It's all a bit foggy to me at the moment. I'm not great at visualizing mechanical things or anticipating problems.
Btw, I was very reluctant to work on the bb of my '75, but it was worth learning about, and very satisfying. I've taken both bb's apart now and both times had to pay the LBS to press, then bang out the cotters. $5 each side. After that, removing the cranks and bb wasn't too bad. The adjustable cups came out very easily on both. The fixed cups - much harder. I had stripped the frames anyway, so I could put the fixed cup into a vice and rotate the entire frame to generate torque. Worked like a charm.
https://www.velo-orange.com/grcrufrthbob.html
I may be buying this and trying to fit a Shimano crank to a '72 Peugeot (I've got a '75 also). And I may be doing it within the next month, so if you are in no hurry, I can get back to you with my results. Send me a reminder pm, if you want.
The spindle length is the big issue for me. Although the idea of symmetrical bb's (as Charles mentioned) was news that I'll have to plan for. I'll get the crank first, then try to determine the spindle length by estimating the required clearance between crank arms and chainstays. It's all a bit foggy to me at the moment. I'm not great at visualizing mechanical things or anticipating problems.
Btw, I was very reluctant to work on the bb of my '75, but it was worth learning about, and very satisfying. I've taken both bb's apart now and both times had to pay the LBS to press, then bang out the cotters. $5 each side. After that, removing the cranks and bb wasn't too bad. The adjustable cups came out very easily on both. The fixed cups - much harder. I had stripped the frames anyway, so I could put the fixed cup into a vice and rotate the entire frame to generate torque. Worked like a charm.
Last edited by sunburst; 08-18-09 at 01:38 AM.