fadetoblack6902

I just bought this awesome old Cinelli for $200. The previous owner told me he thought it is a late 80's model. He thinks it's Columbus tubing. He repainted it with rust-oleum, which looks alot like titanium (though i'd rather it be original). It has a 27.2 seat post, and Cinelli is engraved on the bottom bracket. It is equipped with Campy components (although the original derailleurs are off the bike, soon to go back on). Mavic Cosmos wheels.

Does anyone have any idea what year/model this is? Ideas on what level the campy components are? I'm guessing super record. Possible value once completed and returned to semi original components?

Thanks in advance

Procione

Sweet bike, you should have it powdercoated, that way you can sell it around $800 if you install ergo shifters (people really like those). But it should be spotless, no rust, and with all decals (from ebay).
Edit:
Pic of the headbadge would help, it might not be a Cinelly at all, some frames have BB shell stamped with Cinelly logo, not sure why.

mkeller234

Thats because Cinelli sold the bottom brackets. I had a Mike Melton frame with a Cinelli bottom bracket, it's just a part and does not indicate the frame builder.

fadetoblack6902

They sold the actual bottom bracket shell? Any clues what this frame could be then?

unworthy1

um, just cause it has a Cinelli BB shell, and the seller says it's one, doesn't make it a Cinelli. Looks like he clear-coated the raw steel, and that's why you have rust blooming. The crank is not Super Record, the derailleurs are newer than SR. Seems like a nice frame, I'd like to see good pics of the dropouts, brake bridge and forkcrown, and a better one of the seat cluster (which doesn't look particularly "Cinelli" to me).
Yes, Cinelli sold many frame parts and they were used by hundreds of builders.

mkeller234

I think the Campy derailleurs look like late 80s chorus. The crank set does look like that odd version of super record supposedly from the late 80's
I agree, you need to post some more pictures of the details of the frame. What is on the front of the headtube?

From velobase listed as super record:

fadetoblack6902

Here's the pics of the drop outs, brake bridge, fork, and seat lug. I was wondering if that was rust or the former color showing beneath.


<a href="https://s206.photobucket.com/albums/bb78/fadetoblack6902/?action=view&current=IMG_7101.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="https://i206.photobucket.com/albums/bb78/fadetoblack6902/th_IMG_7101.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket" ></a>

fadetoblack6902

The headbadge is a bronze fish the previous owner said he installed himself.

frpax

I'm no Cinelli expert, but that doesn't look like one to me.
Fork crown just seems wrong.
As others have said, Cinelli BB shells were used by a lot of frame builders.

That said, I think it's a great looking frame. I'd clean the rust and have it finished.

unworthy1

no. it's almost certainly rust cause you also see the bronze brazing material around the joints... Looks like it's well made and there's a little serial number on the LH dropout but it isn't a clue I can use. That forkcrown is one I've seen before, but can't ID it just yet, the other frame bits are Cinelli except the stay caps don't look typical of an Italian bike. Portacatena holes in the RH drop, a clue it's very late '70s to early '80s. I wonder if the fork is OEM: check the inside of the steerer for 5 very subtle ridges, and confirm the threading and width of the BB shell. BTW, the seatpost may be too small, seatlug looks pinched...wait you say it's a 27.2 post, I may be hallucinating then, unless it needs a 27.4...some do.
Oh and I'm wrong about the crankset: mea culpa ;(
I should add: the top-of-BB guides are in keeping with an early '80s frame, but 2 sets of WB bosses? that's unusual, especially for Italian...there's always exceptions, tho. I'm a bit surprised that it's the "later" CCM Cinelli BB shell, too (rather than earlier SCM).

mkeller234

Beneath what? What you are seeing is bare steel that was clear coated so there is no underneath. There are a lot of ways to treat the rust and it does not look very serious.

fadetoblack6902

I'll check the steerer and confirm BB shell/thread first thing in the morning and report back. I'll get some better pics once the frame is stripped as well.

Ronsonic 

Not at all a Cinelli. For about fifty years they're corporate signature was the fastback seatstay.

That said, it does look like a nice frame. Let's see if we can narrow it down any, what is the bottom bracket threading? Look for numbers and writing on the NDS cup. If you pull the fork it is very likely that the tube maker's name will be stamped on the steerer tube.

Most important, check it out thoroughly make sure it's straight and has the right seatpost, then tear it down completely get it painted or powdercoated reassemble and ride the snot out of it.

vjp

My bet is on an American builder, late 70's early 80's.

It is a Henry James fork crown.

vjp

unworthy1

that would make sense to me: it helps explain some of the unusual mix of frame parts and 'styles'. it could even be a mixed tube set as well, but in any case it looks to be a well-made and high quality frame. really just needs some attention: rust treatment and good paint, new seat binder bolt...you may never know who built it unless that tiny serial number jogs somebody's memory.

dbakl

Yes, true, but at times they sold things that didn't follow that feature. I once saw Cinelli mountain bikes in Japan.

Stay cap treatment looks English, but could be American. What are the threads?

vjp

Are the threads in the binder stripped? Why is there a nut?

vjp

fadetoblack6902

The serial number is E8205, on the non drive side dropout.

The bottom bracket shell is 68mm, english thread. no writing on cups, standard shimano cartridge

There is no writing on the steerer. I could not notice any subtle ridges inside the steerer either.

The seat lug doees look very very slightly pinched.....or I could be hallucinating now too The threads are not stripped, there is apparently no reason there was a nut.

Could this be a paramount? The seatstays and lug, as well as dropouts look rather similar. I've also read Henry James forks are used often by Waterford.

dbakl

Might try joining the CR group and posting there:

https://www.classicrendezvous.com/main.htm

Quite a few framebuilders there, someone might recognize it...

fadetoblack6902

I'm thinking it could be a 1982 paramount, via the serial number. Do you guys concur?
https://www.waterfordbikes.com/2005/d...nt/sn/over.php

unworthy1

that I could not say, I'm not familiar enough with the Waterford/Paramount stuff to say for sure, but I bet they aren't the only builder that employed that numbering system, the question is whether the serial number location and size is consistent with theirs...dunno. At least with the BB threading we can be pretty sure it's not Italian, and probably not Columbus tubing, tho that isn't 100% certain, could still be a mixed set. My next question is how early was that Henry James forkcrown available...anybody?

Picchio Special

Doesn't look like a Paramount to me - seatstay top eyes are wrong, as is that binder bolt arrangement - and that's from one pic.

fadetoblack6902

I have a couple people on classic rendevoux who think it's a paramount. Haven't really had any other suggestions anywhere. If it's not a Paramount everyone is stumped I guess.