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  1. #1
    dit
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    Shimano 105 sis??

    I have recently aquired a Centurion Ironman with 6 speed 105 sis indexed shifting which I would like to retain since I have never owned an index shifting bike. I would like to install a long cage rear derailluer along with a wide range freewheel. What derailluers are compatable with the sis dt shifters? I am just busting to take it for a spin but I need some lower gears.

  2. #2
    PanGalacticGargleBlaster Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
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    I use Deore XT front and rear derailleurs with 7-speed 105 shifters. Got em on eBay as a pair for like 30 bux. It works very well when its dialed in....put lots of barrell adjusters in line. I find that the Deore RD shifts very easily under load.

    I'm not particularly fond of how the 105's shift in index mode however.



    Basically you can use any of the more modern shimano derailleurs (Deore, Ultegra...Sora if you're a sucker for punshiment) except Dura-Ace.
    Last edited by Zaphod Beeblebrox; 08-18-09 at 04:52 PM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dit View Post
    What derailluers are compatable with the sis dt shifters?
    More or less anything but Dura Ace.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

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    If you're replacing the freewheel, go with a Shimano HyperGlide. It will make a world of difference, especially with the larger jumps of a wider range freewheel.

  5. #5
    Rustbelt Rider mkeller234's Avatar
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    +1 on the Hyperglide, I have one with my 20 year old 105 group and love it. I have a deore DX rear derailleur instead of the 105 and it works really great. I would bet that you can get them pretty cheap on ebay.
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    Same as people have said above for derailleurs. Some freewheels have spacing that is not compatible with shimano indexing (such as some suntour models), so make sure you get a compatible freewheel.

  7. #7
    Senior Member bluenote157's Avatar
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    depending on how big a freewheel you are going with, you might even be able to continue using that same rear derailleur. I think that 105 rear can probably go 27t max??

    Like others have said, pretty much any shimano derailleur will work sans pre-97 dura-ace.

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    There's a good chance that you have a freehub, not a freewheel. Is the rear hub bulbous on the drive side? If so, freehub.

  9. #9
    dit
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    It seems that new 6 speed freewheels are not very plentiful. I did find a 14-34 that dropped from a 34 to 24 so the top 5 cogs are pretty close and just a big jump to the 34 to get me up the steep hills when I run out of gas. I just tried a 28 cog and it works fine but the b screw needs to be adjusted to the max. I could probably make a 30 work but I am sure the 34 is out of the question.

    Thanks to all for the advise on the useable derailluers. I think I have a mtb shimano takeoff in my parts collection somewhere. I think I will give it try when I get the freewheel.

  10. #10
    Death fork? Naaaah!! top506's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluenote157 View Post
    depending on how big a freewheel you are going with, you might even be able to continue using that same rear derailleur. I think that 105 rear can probably go 27t max??
    I've used them with 30t with no problems.
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    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
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    I swear he said he had an Ironman......I must be sleeping.
    Good job..
    Robbie ♪♫♪...☻
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  12. #12
    dit
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    Hey Robbie

    It is an Ironman. I probably paid too much but it seems original and the sprocket teeth have no dicernable wear. Everything is 105 except the seat post, stem, and rims which are Wolber. I believe it is lighter than my other 2 bikes but it doesn't have the big freewheel or triple crank. Wheels need a little trueing and I don't have a spoke wrench to fit it yet.

  13. #13
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    Post some pics if ya get a chance. Centurions are cool bikes.

  14. #14
    dit
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    I just added some pics to the Centurion ser# thread.

  15. #15
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that 6-speed levers can be over shifted to 7-speed and 7-speed levers can be over shifted to 8-speed.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

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    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.Winthrop View Post
    .
    But wouldn't that only be true in friction mode, NOT SIS
    mode?
    .
    I know my 7-spd SIS shifters will work in both modes with
    my 6-spd freewheels as well as with 7-spd freewheels, but I
    would think in SIS mode a 6-spd shifter would be missing
    a 7th indent?
    .


    They will index through all gears except low in 'SIS' mode. There's no 'index' shifting into low but its really not needed because your limit screw prevents over-shifting.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  17. #17
    Death fork? Naaaah!! top506's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
    Keep in mind that 6-speed levers can be over shifted to 7-speed and 7-speed levers can be over shifted to 8-speed.
    I've heard that the 7-speed shifters can be made to work with 8, but I've never, in half a dozen attempts, gotten a 6 to work with 7, and that's trying the overshift at both the top and bottom of the range.
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    You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.

  18. #18
    dit
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    That is interesting that a 6 speed shifter will work with the 7 speed freewheel. I have a 7 speed fw to try it with. I would not have tried it without the suggestion. I don't think the fw is a Shimano though. I will still give it a try.

  19. #19
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A.Winthrop View Post
    .
    So, then. 7-spd shifters can be used in both SIS and friction
    modes with 6-, 7- and 8-spd freewheels. That's nice!
    .
    8-speed center to center is touch narrower than 7-speed but its been done before. Some 8-speed cassetttes and freewheels have the same C2C as a 7 speed.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  20. #20
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    I wanted to make sure I wasn't spreading bad information so I headed out ot the garage and played around.

    My test subject was a 1988 Peugeot Triathlon with a full Shimano 105 SIS group. Its a 6-speed bike with 1050 series 105 components including 6-speed SIS levers, Uniglide chain and Uniglide cassette.

    For the test I used the following parts:

    Shimano 105SC 1055 7-speed SIS shiftlevers
    Sachs 8-speed freewheel mounted to a 126mm 105 freewheel hub'd wheel.
    Shimano Dura-Ace 8-speed cassette hub
    Stock Triathlon wheel w/ 6-speed Uniglide cassette

    Test 1: Installed 1055 105SC 7-speed levers on the otherwise stock Peugeot with a 6-speed Uniglide casstte. Verdict: Indexed fine after properly adjusting the derailleur and indexing.

    Test 2: Installed 1055 7-speed levers and 8-speed Sachs freewheel equipted wheel. Verdict: Indexed fine after properly adjusting derailleur and indexing. As a side note the wheel only needed a thin spacer on the gear side for the 8-speed freewheel to clear the dropout and this was with a Uniglide chain. Based on this test I'd say a 126mm 8-speed setup is somewhat feasible. When its not so hot out I'll do another test with a narrower HG chain.

    Test 3: Installed 1055 7-speed levers and Dura-Ace equipted 8-speed cassette wheel. Verdict: Indexd fine after properly adjusting derailleur and indexing.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  21. #21
    dit
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    Jim

    I installled a 7 speed Shimano ?????? freewheel and the system still indexed fine for me too. The 105 rd just did not like the 32 cog at all. Thanks to all for your help. Now I need a long cage rd.

  22. #22
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dit View Post
    Jim

    I installled a 7 speed Shimano ?????? freewheel and the system still indexed fine for me too. The 105 rd just did not like the 32 cog at all. Thanks to all for your help. Now I need a long cage rd.
    More than happy to help. 32t is pushing it!! While you waiting to acquire a long cage derailleur try turning the 'd' screw in all the way. Its the screw that makes contact with the derailleur hanger.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  23. #23
    PanGalacticGargleBlaster Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
    I wanted to make sure I wasn't spreading bad information so I headed out ot the garage and played around.

    My test subject was a 1988 Peugeot Triathlon with a full Shimano 105 SIS group. Its a 6-speed bike with 1050 series 105 components including 6-speed SIS levers, Uniglide chain and Uniglide cassette.

    For the test I used the following parts:

    Shimano 105SC 1055 7-speed SIS shiftlevers
    Sachs 8-speed freewheel mounted to a 126mm 105 freewheel hub'd wheel.
    Shimano Dura-Ace 8-speed cassette hub
    Stock Triathlon wheel w/ 6-speed Uniglide cassette

    Test 1: Installed 1055 105SC 7-speed levers on the otherwise stock Peugeot with a 6-speed Uniglide casstte. Verdict: Indexed fine after properly adjusting the derailleur and indexing.

    Test 2: Installed 1055 7-speed levers and 8-speed Sachs freewheel equipted wheel. Verdict: Indexed fine after properly adjusting derailleur and indexing. As a side note the wheel only needed a thin spacer on the gear side for the 8-speed freewheel to clear the dropout and this was with a Uniglide chain. Based on this test I'd say a 126mm 8-speed setup is somewhat feasible. When its not so hot out I'll do another test with a narrower HG chain.

    Test 3: Installed 1055 7-speed levers and Dura-Ace equipted 8-speed cassette wheel. Verdict: Indexd fine after properly adjusting derailleur and indexing.
    This is why C&V rocks. Very cool Jim, good work.

  24. #24
    dit
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    I tried turning the b screw in and even put it in from the bottom to give it some extra length to no no avail. This paticular freewheel has a big jump from the 32 cog to the next cog which is a 24. When it gets onto the 24 cog it jams up against the 34 cog and will not get up and over it. It also will not run on the 24 cog because the cage is rubbing against the side of the 32 cog. I also tried an old mtb rd that I had in the part bin but it would not go up and over the 32 either. ............While writing this I realized that if I clamp the old mtb cage back a little farther than I did on the original attempt it may work. I think I will go out and give it a go if Di doesn't give me too much grief.

  25. #25
    dit
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    A Deore came up on CL yesterday afternoon for $10 so I jumped on it. I am ready to get out the wrenches again. Thank to all for thier help.

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