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Old 08-20-09, 11:27 PM   #1
Hasersys
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I need some help. Raleigh supercourse Bottom Bracket. 26tpi or 24tpi?

I am looking to change bottom brakets on my Raleigh supercourse. From the what I have been reading the later modles had Raleigh threading. I dated the bike a 1973-1974. UNLESS I am measuring wrong I have a 68mm shell, But I have a cottered crank. One thing I read from sheldon browns site is that If it is a cottered crank then it is 26tpi, but the othere says 68mm shells are english. I am pretty confused and have been reading on this for the past 2 days. I am going to evetualy tear the bike down and build it up as a fixed gear I just want to figure out the bottom bracket first. Oh and if anyone has a sugguestion on the length of a spindle I would greatly appreciate it.



I have been reading to much and it is to late.
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Old 08-20-09, 11:51 PM   #2
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It can be any number of combinations. Pull the adjustable cup out, and then try (carefully) to thread a known 24TPI cup in the BB instead. If the original doesn't bind and the 24TPI cup does, it's 26TPI. If the replacement does not bind, it's 24TPI (or it's a 26TPI that someone has done a hack-job "rethreading" job on).

Simple, but effective method to check it.

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Old 08-21-09, 12:22 AM   #3
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Thank you for the recommendation. I have actually been considering trying that. I do not have the parts setting around unless I tear apart my other bike. I am pretty sure no one has ever changed anything on this bike. It was being thrown out and has a nice dent in the frame but is still straight. I saved it from the dump.
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Old 08-21-09, 02:21 AM   #4
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It can be any number of combinations. Pull the adjustable cup out, and then try (carefully) to thread a known 24TPI cup in the BB instead. If the original doesn't bind and the 24TPI cup does, it's 26TPI. If the replacement does not bind, it's 24TPI (or it's a 26TPI that someone has done a hack-job "rethreading" job on).
If you have a known 24tpi cup, you don't even have to try to thread it into the BB. Just take the known 24tpi cup and the cup in question and mesh their threads together. If they mesh, then you have a 24tpi. If they don't, its a 26tpi.

My own experience with Raleighs is that if the frame has a Carlton sticker (ie made in the Carlton factory), it is likely a 24tpi.
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Old 08-21-09, 05:50 AM   #5
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I have found it to be a total crapshoot as far as Super Course BB threading. My most recent one in the stable is a '71 or '72 with a cottered crankset, and much to my surprise it has 24tpi British threading.

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Old 08-21-09, 07:10 AM   #6
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My '75 has 24tpi English. It came with a Stronglight 93 crankset.
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Old 08-21-09, 09:55 AM   #7
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I am amazed at what I have been reading about them. This isn't my first Raleigh this is just my first one I am changing the BB, and I from what I have been reading there is no way to be sure untill you actually have it apart. Oh and putting the two cups together I wish I had thought of that sooner. I just need to get me some 24tpi cups now thanks.
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Old 08-21-09, 10:00 AM   #8
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I am amazed at what I have been reading about them. This isn't my first Raleigh this is just my first one I am changing the BB, and I from what I have been reading there is no way to be sure untill you actually have it apart. Oh and putting the two cups together I wish I had thought of that sooner. I just need to get me some 24tpi cups now thanks.
Got a rear hub threaded for a freewheel? Use that, it's the same 24 tpi thread. Assuming it's not some weird ethnic threading, that is....
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Old 08-21-09, 10:00 AM   #9
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Raleigh 26tpi cups have a pretty distinctive look to them. adjustable and fixed cups have the same style wrench flats.
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Old 08-21-09, 10:01 AM   #10
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+1 It does seem like a crapshoot. my '72 Super Course is 26TPI
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Old 08-21-09, 04:15 PM   #11
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So today when I went to a lbs I told them that I needed my cottered crank taken off, and that I do not have a cotter press to do this they basically told me to take my bike to another bike shop. The shops name they gave me is about 45 minutes away. I asked them If they could remove the cotters for me. I do not want to get a cotter press and I do not want to pound on the cotter pin any more than I already have.I told the shop that I have a old Raleigh supercourse. That I am changing the cottered crank into a cotterless and I just need the bottom bracket taken off. The first thing he said is that is going to be a problem. Then when I told him I understood the situation about the threading, just needed the crank removed that I could do the rest he said he was flooded right now that it was a 3 week wait. So either I am not worth his time and money or he didn't have the tools? or maybe he just doesn't want to do it.. I was willing to wait. time isn't an issue. I have another ride.. now I either need to get a $50 tool or start in with the hammer. I was willing to pay plenty for this to. I recently moved into a apartment from my house for my Girlfriend to go to school. I try to keep the noise down while I am working on things around here. I would hate to bother a neighbor. I already work on my motorcycle enough in the parking lot. I am so not used to this not having a garage thing. Any Ideas of a way I can get the cotter pins out with out slugging on them to much? have taken a C clamp then put a socket on the head side that I am driving out. I can't seem to get it tight enough. It is going to be a fight but I will get it off. In my opinion though I beleive the Bike shop should have helped me out. Am I wrong? I normaly never go to a bike shop I am a diy guy.
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Old 08-21-09, 06:27 PM   #12
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Have you read this?

www.sheldonbrown.com/cotters.html
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Old 08-21-09, 07:45 PM   #13
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Plenty of bicycle shops are staffed by jerks. If your priority is not hammering and cost isn't an object, take the 45 minute ride to the place you were recommended.

Where are you? I'm sure someone here can recommend a shop. or possibly even help you themselves
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Old 08-21-09, 08:27 PM   #14
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Yea, I have almost every thing on Sheldon Browns pages. Not just for this bike but others also. The last thing I have to try is drilling it out. I do not think it will be to hard for me to drill it out. This bike has had nothing done to it since it was made. The only matinance I think it ever had done on it is the some tires. It is in ok shape aside from a small dent. For a dump bike is is ok. The paint is all messed up. Most of the decals are there but none are complete.

I do not have any of my drills here though... I am not planning on keeping the crank.. Is there any chance I could cutt It off with a hack saw maybe.. I could just go buy a new drill but I have some back where I am from at my familys house. I am going there soon maybe I can pick one up I just do not want to wait.

Oh I am in Tampa by the way. Most of my tools are here but I left things I knew would I wouldn't really need over here. I do not have much room in this apartment.
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Old 08-21-09, 08:46 PM   #15
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I think in the morrning I may just take my dremel threw the cotters. I need to polish some stuff with my dremel for my motorcycle tomorrow. I just do not know If I currently have a bit that will get through this pin. It is supposed to be soft metal, but this pin seems to be very hard.
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Old 08-21-09, 09:16 PM   #16
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+1 It does seem like a crapshoot. my '72 Super Course is 26TPI
and my '72 is 24tpi
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Old 08-22-09, 05:21 AM   #17
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Yea, I have almost every thing on Sheldon Browns pages. Not just for this bike but others also. The last thing I have to try is drilling it out. I do not think it will be to hard for me to drill it out. This bike has had nothing done to it since it was made. The only matinance I think it ever had done on it is the some tires. It is in ok shape aside from a small dent. For a dump bike is is ok. The paint is all messed up. Most of the decals are there but none are complete.

I do not have any of my drills here though... I am not planning on keeping the crank.. Is there any chance I could cutt It off with a hack saw maybe.. I could just go buy a new drill but I have some back where I am from at my familys house. I am going there soon maybe I can pick one up I just do not want to wait.

Oh I am in Tampa by the way. Most of my tools are here but I left things I knew would I wouldn't really need over here. I do not have much room in this apartment.
Exactly what state are the cotters in? Is the part with threads broken off flush with the crank? If so, I've had good luck with a punch. Have you tried PB blaster and letting it soak in overnight?
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Old 08-22-09, 07:47 AM   #18
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For $55 - pops out the pins with a few turns of a wrench. Also puts them back in just as easily if you want to keep the originals.

http://bikesmithdesign.com/CotterPress/index.html
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Old 08-22-09, 07:55 AM   #19
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I have found my $5.00 c-clamp and a socket removes every cotter I ever came across...a little WD-40 and out they come...
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Old 08-22-09, 08:24 AM   #20
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+1 It does seem like a crapshoot. my '72 Super Course is 26TPI
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and my '72 is 24tpi
Blame that one on the Bike Boom. At the time, the dealers were desperate for any Raleighs that Nottingham could ship out, so nobody was questioning bottom bracket threading as long as the cups fit. Hell, dealers were so desperate for bikes back then that they were willingly selling French threaded bikes. If anything, I was amazed that Raleigh was actually staying almost completely on to the catalog specs over the course of the model year. The Astras and Rogere Rivieres were were getting in often had component changes within a same batch shipment.

The supposed standard is that Super Course and higher were British standard threading, Grand Prix and lower were Raleigh standard. It's obvious there were lots of exceptions to the Super Course.
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Old 08-22-09, 08:47 AM   #21
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Exactly what state are the cotters in? Is the part with threads broken off flush with the crank? If so, I've had good luck with a punch. Have you tried PB blaster and letting it soak in overnight?
I have tried soaking them all night then pounding on them with a punch. I have yet to cut them flush and try.

I have also been useing a C clamp with a socket to...... I CAN'T beleive how much force I have put on these with the c clamp and nothing has happen..

I have considered buying the tool, but I do not think buying it would be a good idea since I can not see any thing els I can use it for.


Today I will get some good time to put into this thing. I will get it out!!
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Old 08-22-09, 08:48 AM   #22
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I ment to say they look perpect.
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Old 08-22-09, 09:16 AM   #23
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Raleigh 26tpi cups have a pretty distinctive look to them. adjustable and fixed cups have the same style wrench flats.
Their cheap 24tpi cups look identical - this is not a reliable method of identification.

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Old 08-22-09, 09:19 AM   #24
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[QUOTE=Hasersys;9536617]I have considered buying the tool, but I do not think buying it would be a good idea since I can not see any thing els I can use it for.

You can use the tool to save you time and agony. Sooner or later, you'll find that you'll need it again, in which case, you will be very glad you purchased it.

There is no excuse for not having the proper tools - and good ones at that.

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Today I will get some good time to put into this thing. I will get it out!!
You will wreck it without the proper tool.

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Old 08-22-09, 10:48 AM   #25
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Raleigh 26tpi cups have a pretty distinctive look to them. adjustable and fixed cups have the same style wrench flats.
Yes:



Apparently still available here: http://www.goldstarind.com/botparts.htm

GS-39 (RALEIGH)
24.8mm x 26TPI RH & LH,
GS-39.01
34.8 X 24 RPI RH & LH thread, BCP/ZP/Otto black finish.
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