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  1. #1
    vjp
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    And yet, Another One!!


  2. #2
    Which bike should I ride? bullwinkle's Avatar
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    Fugly fork IMHO.

  3. #3
    rhm
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    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not going to be running out to order one, but that sure looks nice! Not to scoff, but... it would be nice if they could put a little bend in the fork, find a Fujita leather saddle, and... what else?

  4. #4
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    i think that fork would look sweet with radial lacing on the front... not so classic, but who cares?
    1988 Miele Azsora

  5. #5
    Bottecchia fan
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    What is it about these new retro bikes...they are getting better but they still seem to be designed by people who just don't quite "get it". They have retro styling queues but they also have things, like the fork in the this case, that just don't fit. Like they assigned the job to some 23 year old designer right out of college and said, "Design a retro styled bike" and he just looked at pictures of old bikes without really understanding the history of vintage bikes, the styling, or the things that totally turn on or off the people would actually buy these bikes. In this case it's pretty minor. If you could get past the $1500 price tag it would be simple enough to swap the fork for a nice curved chrome fork assuming it had the correct rake. But some of them are beyond redemption with sloping top tubes and TIG welding. You can't fix that stuff. I think the worst so far has been the Bianchi. Decent frame, nice celeste paint job, but a carbon fork, low spoke count wheels, and black components everywhere...oh, and a $3300 price tag. Now those guys were smoking something.

    So far the Electra seems to have the most thought put into it but it's painfully obvious they are copying Grant Peterson over at Rivendell with the super tall head tube and sloping top tube. That's unfortunate as it's allowing function to get in the way of form. If horizontal top tubes are the pointy toed high heels of the bicycle world so be it. We all know that you have to suffer to be beautiful
    1959 Bottecchia Professional (frame), 1966 Bottecchia Professional, 1971 Bottecchia Professional (frame),
    1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
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  6. #6
    Rustbelt Rider mkeller234's Avatar
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    ^Well my guess is that it may be an issue that the manufacturer is unable or unwilling to re-tool to make all of the parts properly classic. So they just use what they have and pop sprinkle on some of the styling queues.

    It's like the new retro Mustangs and Camaros. They look fine but have an odd fakeness too them.
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  7. #7
    Steel is real, baby! frpax's Avatar
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    I never did like them straight forks either. Maybe get one of those Tange cro mo replacement forks...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkeller234 View Post
    ^Well my guess is that it may be an issue that the manufacturer is unable or unwilling to re-tool to make all of the parts properly classic. So they just use what they have and pop sprinkle on some of the styling queues.

    It's like the new retro Mustangs and Camaros. They look fine but have an odd fakeness too them.
    I don't know, I like the new Mustang, Camaro, and Challenger. If they could the guys who designed those to design these bikes they'd be a lot better. Realistically I don't expect the bikes (or cars) to look identical to the originals, rather I would prefer if they remain recognizable the way a Porsche always looks like a Porsche whether it's a '60's model or a 2010 model.

    But I'm not sure that I agree with you in general - in Bianchi's case I think you are right, it kind of looks like they grabbed whatever was in the parts bin and through it together without investing any time or money to design a well though out quality product. And the Specialized Allez might be in that boat with the TIG welding as they might not have had the capability to do lugs. But the Fuji and the Electra seem to be designed that way on purpose. Like they just didn't know that only Rivendell-philes like that ugly frame or that only Colnagos should have straight forks. I mean if you look at Fuji's own website their Classic Series Cambridge bike has a more traditional curved fork. They could have just used that one instead of the straight fork.
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    1973 Bottecchia Gran Turismo, 1974 Bottecchia Special, 1977 Bottecchia Special (frame),
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  9. #9
    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
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    Nice bike.
    Still, to me, on price: Specialized 1, Fuji 0

    Robbie ♪♫♪...☻

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  10. #10
    Senior Member ScottRyder's Avatar
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    What bothers me the most is that what looks like chrome on the lugs, down tube and seat tube is actually painted silver. I'll stick with my original Finest at a fraction of the cost.

    Scott

  11. #11
    Senior Member gtownviking's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kommisar89 View Post
    What is it about these new retro bikes...they are getting better but they still seem to be designed by people who just don't quite "get it". They have retro styling queues but they also have things, like the fork in the this case, that just don't fit. Like they assigned the job to some 23 year old designer right out of college and said, "Design a retro styled bike" and he just looked at pictures of old bikes without really understanding the history of vintage bikes, the styling, or the things that totally turn on or off the people would actually buy these bikes. In this case it's pretty minor. If you could get past the $1500 price tag it would be simple enough to swap the fork for a nice curved chrome fork assuming it had the correct rake. But some of them are beyond redemption with sloping top tubes and TIG welding. You can't fix that stuff. I think the worst so far has been the Bianchi. Decent frame, nice celeste paint job, but a carbon fork, low spoke count wheels, and black components everywhere...oh, and a $3300 price tag. Now those guys were smoking something.

    So far the Electra seems to have the most thought put into it but it's painfully obvious they are copying Grant Peterson over at Rivendell with the super tall head tube and sloping top tube. That's unfortunate as it's allowing function to get in the way of form. If horizontal top tubes are the pointy toed high heels of the bicycle world so be it. We all know that you have to suffer to be beautiful

    I agree with everything you said but the red bold sentence above is my vote for quote of the day.

  12. #12
    Senior Member RobbieTunes's Avatar
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    Trek has one coming out 599.99

    Robbie ♪♫♪...☻

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  13. #13
    Steel is real, baby! frpax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RobbieTunes View Post
    Trek has one coming out 599.99
    Really? Do tell.....

  14. #14
    Senior Member Oldpeddaller's Avatar
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    If horizontal top tubes are the pointy toed high heels of the bicycle world so be it. We all know that you have to suffer to be beautiful

    Oh! Well it is the weekend I suppose! I'd rather ride my horizontal top tubed frames than walk around in white 6" stiletto slingbacks!!!
    Oldpeddaller - The older I get, the better I used to be !!!" ***** If at first you don't succeed - hit it with a hammer.

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  15. #15
    Senior Member love2pedal.com's Avatar
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    I don't get it.

    Why is this $1500? My guess is it was a $600 bike

    The parts are mostly Fuji housebrand with SunRace drivetrain and Alex rims??? You can buy an Ultegra equipped bike for the same price.

    Dan

  16. #16
    Я люблю суп abarth's Avatar
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    Sure looks nice, but at $1500, there are boat load of nice used vintage on ebay to choose from. Now, if Fuji offers lugged Reynolds 953 at that price, I will be all over it.

    I want to hear about the Trek steel also. Any details yet?

  17. #17
    Death fork? Naaaah!! top506's Avatar
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    At least Fuji used a quill stem.
    The threadless fork is the deal killer on the Specialized, IMO. I could live with the TIG welds.
    Top
    You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.

  18. #18
    creaky old bones FZ1Tom's Avatar
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    With some of the prices floating around (1000-2000) it's almost tempting to just slowly scrounge together some modern components and then put my tax refund towards say, a Tommasini Tecno frameset.

    Expensive, sure but maybe a real C&V bike in 10-20 years?

    So far it doesnt seem like any one has quite got the whole 'retro' thing down yet - its either a welded frame, or the fork is wrong, or something. And then there's the price tags, which is really what it all boils down to

    Tom

  19. #19
    Bottecchia fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by love2pedal.com View Post
    I don't get it.

    Why is this $1500? My guess is it was a $600 bike

    The parts are mostly Fuji housebrand with SunRace drivetrain and Alex rims??? You can buy an Ultegra equipped bike for the same price.

    Dan
    I think that's called maximizing ROI and shareholder value.
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  20. #20
    Bottecchia fan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldpeddaller View Post
    If horizontal top tubes are the pointy toed high heels of the bicycle world so be it. We all know that you have to suffer to be beautiful

    Oh! Well it is the weekend I suppose! I'd rather ride my horizontal top tubed frames than walk around in white 6" stiletto slingbacks!!!
    Yeah I stick with Sidis and a horizontal top tube myself Oldpeddaller but an attractive lady in 6" stilettos can ride anything she likes (I'm picturing Catherine Denuvue on a mixte). What's that? You say she'd have to be a French or Italian tourist?...
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkeller234 View Post
    ^Well my guess is that it may be an issue that the manufacturer is unable or unwilling to re-tool to make all of the parts properly classic. So they just use what they have and pop sprinkle on some of the styling queues.

    It's like the new retro Mustangs and Camaros. They look fine but have an odd fakeness too them.
    Yes. Chris K. at Velo-Orange has described how he can't get his Taiwanese suppliers -- who no doubt make billions of bikes of diverse types -- to do a French-style fork bend. The best they can do is that mid-fork single bend (see the new mixte model on his blog). Though I think he's been able to get them to get the bend a little lower, they just can't do the nice, sweeping curve because they don't have the tooling.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kommisar89 View Post
    What is it about these new retro bikes...they are getting better but they still seem to be designed by people who just don't quite "get it". They have retro styling queues but they also have things, like the fork in the this case, that just don't fit. Like they assigned the job to some 23 year old designer right out of college and said, "Design a retro styled bike" and he just looked at pictures of old bikes without really understanding the history of vintage bikes, the styling, or the things that totally turn on or off the people would actually buy these bikes. In this case it's pretty minor. If you could get past the $1500 price tag it would be simple enough to swap the fork for a nice curved chrome fork assuming it had the correct rake. But some of them are beyond redemption with sloping top tubes and TIG welding. You can't fix that stuff. I think the worst so far has been the Bianchi. Decent frame, nice celeste paint job, but a carbon fork, low spoke count wheels, and black components everywhere...oh, and a $3300 price tag. Now those guys were smoking something.

    So far the Electra seems to have the most thought put into it but it's painfully obvious they are copying Grant Peterson over at Rivendell with the super tall head tube and sloping top tube. That's unfortunate as it's allowing function to get in the way of form. If horizontal top tubes are the pointy toed high heels of the bicycle world so be it. We all know that you have to suffer to be beautiful
    I'm as reactionary as they come with respect to fork bends, top tube levels, tubing shape, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum. Aesthetically, I hate the hideous crap they are making now.

    However, try to imagine how traditionalists felt when bikes like the Spaceliner came out. Now these are considered great classics.

    Over time, unfortunately and often for economic reasons, great features can be removed or modified, and, as time passes, the degraded feature/innovation (i.e., straight forks, no fenders/racks/lights, racing bikes or mountain bikes for town riders) becomes part of the definition of the technology in popular consciousness.

    Even a resurgence (driven either by nostalgia, a market-based need for aesthetic freshness, or even practicality) can see these new versions without these useful or beautiful features.

    Yes, as I get older, I see the problem of having much of the design work of our society done by young people. You can see this in the "new" bike designs on design blogs. Despite an aging population and an increasing social need and desire for practical town bikes, the "new" designs you see are almost invariably mountain bike designs with straight forks (mostly an aesthetic consideration, I guess), exposed chains for soiling and grinding up your pants, riding positions that have you looking at the ground or craning your neck to see straight ahead, etc., etc. Designers see themselves as bringing fresh rethinking of fundamental human-technology interfaces and innovative ideas. Yet what they mostly deliver is nothing new, or even anything old that's good, just, like futurism, an extrapolation of things that are bad about the present into an even more undesirable future.

    Hmm. Somebody hasn't had his breakfast.

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