fiataccompli

I'm i the process of rejuvenating (notice, I'm not saying "restoring" or "rebuilding" or "turning into a fixie") a Motobecane Grand Touring that was given to me. Seems like other than re-lubing the hubs, cleaning it & a new chain, cables & tires/tubes it's good as-is (as long as I don't keep screwing up the freewheel, but that's another story). The headset bearings look like this:



I'm planning on actually riding the bike...probably a good bit, actually...probably not touring, but frequent commuting, urban transportation, recreation, etc. The bearings themselves and the races look good. Should I replace these with (more) loose bearings or is what's there good enough for general consumption? I guess it's lasted nearly 30 years now (albeit the last 10 or so were locked in a shed), but....

Panthers007

A bike-shop should have new bearing-sets in retainers. These are relatively cheap - so there's no point not to get new ones for your Grand Touring (I had that same bike - it's was a super-nice rider!). Just clean the headset, put in some grease, and adjust it. Make sure you don't put the retainers in upside-down.

mkeller234

Yep, don't forget to take the bearings to the LBS with you to make sure you get the correct size.

I agree, get new ones in retainers.... sticking loose bearings in a headset is a pain in the butt. I have done it before but only on headsets with less than perfect races. If you do use loose balls you will need to add a few, I believe you are supposed to fill the race then remove one.

Edit: You could probably toss the existing ones in some solvent and re-use them... thats what I do 99.999% of the time.

fiataccompli

is trying to spend as little money as possible to put together a really nice riding bike, not a valid point?

seriously...what I was getting at is that the bearings & the cups show no wear. So, is it worth changing not to have 'new' bearings, but to have MORE bearings is really the angle of my question. I've done the loose bearing thing and it turned out nicely (not rocket science to figure out how many to use...being French in this case I might be dealing with a bastard size bearing though...hmmm).

mkeller234

Sure you can, that's why I added that last little bit to my previous post. Just through those bearings in some simple green or kerosine, paint thinner... what ever solvent you have. Let them soak a bit and then attack them with an old toothbrush and soapy water, Repeat till clean. Let them dry then grease them up.

Panthers007

Headset bearings come in various sizes, and the sizes of ball-bearings is standard throughout the industry. Not even the French could mess that up.

I agree that you should - after writing down which side is which and goes where - take the retainer/bearings with you when yo go to your bike-shop for new ones. And there is no real purpose to attempt the use of loose bb's. Even I use retainer one's - and I usually champion the use of loose bearings. But not for a headset.

And I believe your bicycle there is worthy of a small offering of new bearings. Go ahead - SPLURGE!

afilado

I rebuilt a '70s UO 8 Peugeot mixte. The "cheap" bearings-in-retainer in both the headset and BB were in fine shape as were the races. Strictly speaking speaking all I had to do was clean and repack with grease.

Instead, I decided to eliminate the retainer cages and go entirely with new loose bearings. It took about double the original number of bearings - something like from 11 to 22 in the headset, for example - but the change in feel was remarkable. There was a lovely, smooth solidity, even a luxuriousness to the action that was not to be felt in the original configuration. I'm absolutely sure the bike appreciates the upgrade.

Talk about a value-packed upgrade!

I stuffed the cups with all the balls possible then removed one.

Since then, I've done the same for every headset and BB I've refurbished. They're probably overbuilt but rather that than the opposite.

Sixty Fiver

Repacking a headset with loose ball bearings is not that difficult and will almost double the number of bearings in the headset so it is a win win when you do it.

I usually do this with a bike in the stand and will rotate the bike upside down and replace the lower bearings, insert the fork and use a strap to hold it in place when I flip the bike back over to do the upper race.

I don't stock caged bearings at my shop... any bike that comes in for service leaves with far more bearings than it came with save for Ashtabula cranks which do not take well to loose bearings.

Caged bearings are solely for convenience and to cut production costs.

fiataccompli

that's comforting to hear. I've renewed headsets both ways, but one I did a few months ago with loose bearings was particularly worn & 'chunky' feeling to begin with. Cleaned, polished and with lots of new ball bearings it feels great. What I do NOT have from experience is the comparison of caged vs. loose on the same bike both in new condition. Sounds like what 65er is saying is that this is standard tuning practice for any bike that needs anything more than cleaning & new grease.

oh...flipping the bike in the stand & holding the fork with zip-ties was simple...no big deal and no reason to not do it in my book.

Heck, I'll probably do this for the ole' GT since I just fubar the freewheel this evening...maybe the karma will equal out.

Sixty Fiver

Most of the much older bikes I work on come with loose bearings in the headset and these seem to stand up really well compared to their caged brethren.

If you take really good care of your headset and run a front fender or seal the head tube against water penetration caged bearings can be fine... a failure to do this will result in the cages deteriorating and failing which can really damage an otherwise good headset.

The same applies to every bearing in your bike... using loose balls will greatly extend the life of the component be that a hub, bottom bracket, or headset as long as they are properly maintained.

vincev

Looks to be in very good condition.I would just clean the bearings and regrease them if you are just using the bike for easy non punishing riding.

Road Fan

If there's no wear, you just need to clean it and get good grease in there, with the intention of just riding it forever. I doubt you're dealing with an odd bearing size. There is a small but real benefit in having more contact points in the bearing, and to have those contact points varying their positions kind of randomly, when you consider your desire for very long useful life.

I'd go for loose bearings. Take the old ones to the LBS and get the number of balls that are in both retainers, plus maybe 10 spares to allow for dropping them into inaccessible places as you put in the balls. Have the LBS match ball diameter as close as possible. The balls are really cheap.

I like your idea of just getting everything working correctly, spending as little $ as necessary. I like to do things that way.

JohnDThompson 

Loose bearing in the bottom race might be a good idea if you're concerned about wear. You can leave the top in retainers as it is mostly just for alignment, not load bearing.

Ronsonic 

I've learned to really like my cheap harbor fright ultrasonic cleaner for stuff like this. Fill it with mineral spirits for grease and gunk removal.

bbattle

+1000

bbattle

Talk about your Freudian slips!!

fiataccompli

lol...but, thanks...I knew there was something that I was planning on keeping an eye out for a sale on. I usually use compressed air & brake cleaner aerosol, but the ultrasonic is so much more a 'refined' way of getting there!

Panthers007

That's no 'Freudian-slip.' That's how I spell it, too. Make no mistake - it fits.

gerv 

This technique makes the job no more difficult than trying to insert cages from the bottom with one hand while holding the fork in the other.

afilado

Ronsonic, does that HF ultrasonic cleaner work well? Give a few details.

Thanks,

J

sunburst

I repacked old Peugeots both ways. Twice with loose bearings, top and bottom. But after someone on the mechanics forum said the stress is on the bottom bearings, I kept the retainer for the top the last time I did a Peugeot - the bottom already had loose bearings. I could not feel the difference in approaches.

My LBS mechanic said if the bearings are shiny after you clean them, they can be reused. If they are dull or cracked, replace.

Grand Bois

I always throw away the retainers and use new grade 25 loose balls. It's not like I'm going to go broke buying bearning balls at less than $5 for 100. It takes a little longer to put loose balls in a headset, but what's the rush? I work on bikes because I enjoy it.