Room for a 7spd?
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,579
Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1607 Post(s)
Liked 2,213 Times
in
1,103 Posts
Room for a 7spd?
126mm spacing. Is there room for any 7spd or do I need a Ultra 7? How about an 8spd?
https://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...reewheel01.jpg
https://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...reewheel01.jpg
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 68
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
If it's 126mm, then any ol' 7spd should fit. Never heard of an Ultra7, you might be thinking of Ultra6 (for 120mm spacing). 8spd freewheels are a bad idea because of axle bending/breaking issues. You'll need a new hub for an 8spd cassette.
#3
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,579
Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1607 Post(s)
Liked 2,213 Times
in
1,103 Posts
I have an Ultra6 on a bike. They also made an Ultra7 for a short period of time. There are 8spd freewheels too.
#4
Veteran Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,757
Bikes: 32 frames + 80 wheels
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1331 Post(s)
Liked 763 Times
in
431 Posts
You can still find Suntour Winner Ultra 7 freewheels on eBay. I have a Winner service board which allows me to build regular 5 and Ultra 6 freewheels for 120mm dropout spacing and regular 6 and Ultra 7 for 126mm dropout spacing. I don't think you can stuff an 8-speed regular screw-on freewheel on a hub spaced for 126mm dropouts, but there should be Shimano freehubs that will work. I have a Shimano 6-speed freehub with regular spacing that fits in 120mm dropouts.
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 23,223
Mentioned: 654 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4722 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3,036 Times
in
1,874 Posts
Um, maybe. The question isn't just dropout spacing. A seven speed freewheel is slightly wider than a standard 6 speed, despite the narrower spacing. While you might have clearance with the dropout there may not be sufficient clearance with the stays. Frames meant for seven speed often have the inside of the stays flattened for extra clearance with the chain. You won't know until you try. Generally, if it doesn't work, a thin washer added to drive side of the axle will add sufficient clearance.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
Posts: 347
Bikes: Rocky Mountain
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
It should be no problem at all as long as you have friction shifting, which I assume you do.
I recently did exactly that and the 7-speed freewheel was only very slightly wider than the six-speed I took off. It didn't require fiddling with spacers or redishing the wheel or anything. Just a minor adjustment of the derailer limit screws.
I recently did exactly that and the 7-speed freewheel was only very slightly wider than the six-speed I took off. It didn't require fiddling with spacers or redishing the wheel or anything. Just a minor adjustment of the derailer limit screws.
#7
Cat 6
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Mountain Brook, AL
Posts: 7,482
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 500 Post(s)
Liked 183 Times
in
118 Posts
Ultra7 = marketing hype for a standard 7s freewheel. Almost every 7s freewheel, except some Campy, are 5.0mm (Ultra) spacing.
__________________
72 Frejus (for sale), Holdsworth Record (for sale), special CNC & Gitane Interclub / 74 Italvega NR (for sale) / c80 French / 82 Raleigh Intl MkII f&f (for sale)/ 83 Trek 620 (for sale)/ 84 Bruce Gordon Chinook (for sale)/ 85 Ron Cooper / 87 Centurion IM MV (for sale) / 03 Casati Dardo / 08 BF IRO / 09 Dogma FPX / 09 Giant TCX0 / 10 Vassago Fisticuff
72 Frejus (for sale), Holdsworth Record (for sale), special CNC & Gitane Interclub / 74 Italvega NR (for sale) / c80 French / 82 Raleigh Intl MkII f&f (for sale)/ 83 Trek 620 (for sale)/ 84 Bruce Gordon Chinook (for sale)/ 85 Ron Cooper / 87 Centurion IM MV (for sale) / 03 Casati Dardo / 08 BF IRO / 09 Dogma FPX / 09 Giant TCX0 / 10 Vassago Fisticuff
#8
Full Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: I live in a rural canyon in unincorporated Los Angeles County
Posts: 397
Bikes: Giant Mountain Bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
126mm spacing. Is there room for any 7spd or do I need a Ultra 7? How about an 8spd?
https://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...reewheel01.jpg
https://i985.photobucket.com/albums/a...reewheel01.jpg
Simple friction shifters rendered the whole indexing issue moot...
Greg
#9
Veteran Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,757
Bikes: 32 frames + 80 wheels
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1331 Post(s)
Liked 763 Times
in
431 Posts
A Suntour Winner narrow 7-speed freewheel is 1.3mm wider than a regular 6-speed in regards to the outermost sprocket position, which is not very much. I did not have any problems with my 126mm frame. It was more of a problem when I installed a narrow 6-speed in my 120mm frame, because the increase in width was 2.0mm and my outside sprocket was larger (14T), however, the chain still cleared the seatstay. Both frames do have some relief in the seatstays on the right side, so I guess that it could be a problem in a frame that did not.
#10
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,579
Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1607 Post(s)
Liked 2,213 Times
in
1,103 Posts
I do have friction shifting. What is the recommended freewheel manufacturer? Interlocks look good but why are they 2.5x the cost?
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...?category=1665
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...?category=1665
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 1,977
Bikes: Schwinn Paramount P15, Fisher Montare, Proteus, Rivendell Quickbeam
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
4 Posts
I do have friction shifting. What is the recommended freewheel manufacturer? Interlocks look good but why are they 2.5x the cost?
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...?category=1665
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopp...?category=1665
#12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,579
Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1607 Post(s)
Liked 2,213 Times
in
1,103 Posts
The Holy Shimano Freewheels have poor produciton quality? IRD is a better choice?
Sorry, I really missed the whole Shimano is the "best product" development years. I don't have a road bike with index shifting. Not too thrilled with my MTB and Shimano shifting. Must be the poor quality end of Shimano.
Sorry, I really missed the whole Shimano is the "best product" development years. I don't have a road bike with index shifting. Not too thrilled with my MTB and Shimano shifting. Must be the poor quality end of Shimano.
#13
Veteran Racer
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Ciudad de Vacas, Tejas
Posts: 11,757
Bikes: 32 frames + 80 wheels
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1331 Post(s)
Liked 763 Times
in
431 Posts
Since most modern bikes take cassettes and freewheels are only placed on new cheapo bikes, the production quality has gone down. Interlock (IRD) introduced an excellent freewheel designed for those of us who still want to buy quality freewheel. You could also look for NOS Suntour on ebay.
#14
feros ferio
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,793
Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;
Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1390 Post(s)
Liked 1,322 Times
in
835 Posts
I have had mixed success cramming 7 speeds onto a 126mm axle. However, one should always be able to add a 2mm spacer to the right side, re-center the axle, and redish the wheel.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,579
Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1607 Post(s)
Liked 2,213 Times
in
1,103 Posts
I am fully aware of https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/freewheels.html#7 Thanks.
The reason I added the pic was for your assesment of available space. Harris prices are => Universal and about 3000 miles closer. I can order and pick up without shipment cost.
The other point I am interested in is the shifting quality between the two. I expect it to be better than stock with the modified teeth, even with friction shifting.
The reason I added the pic was for your assesment of available space. Harris prices are => Universal and about 3000 miles closer. I can order and pick up without shipment cost.
The other point I am interested in is the shifting quality between the two. I expect it to be better than stock with the modified teeth, even with friction shifting.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
Posts: 347
Bikes: Rocky Mountain
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I almost bought an IRD freewheel but I found a Suntour 7 speed freewheel in new condition on E-bay.
In theory almost any new freewheel should shift better based on the new teeth designs, but the cheapest ones are likely less durable than these old Suntour freewheels. I can say my 7-speed Suntour 13-28 freewheel shifts just as well as the six speed 13-23 freewheel it replaced.
I've heard good reviews of the IRD freewheels and was prepared to buy one but in the end I didn't so I can't vouch for them personally.
In theory almost any new freewheel should shift better based on the new teeth designs, but the cheapest ones are likely less durable than these old Suntour freewheels. I can say my 7-speed Suntour 13-28 freewheel shifts just as well as the six speed 13-23 freewheel it replaced.
I've heard good reviews of the IRD freewheels and was prepared to buy one but in the end I didn't so I can't vouch for them personally.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Gatineau, Quebec
Posts: 347
Bikes: Rocky Mountain
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I am fully aware of https://sheldonbrown.com/harris/freewheels.html#7 Thanks.
The reason I added the pic was for your assesment of available space.
The reason I added the pic was for your assesment of available space.
#19
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,579
Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1607 Post(s)
Liked 2,213 Times
in
1,103 Posts
Sooo.... I removed the freewheel and measured the axle diameter, 14.76mm. It is a Mavic 500 hub with there own axle. I don't know how it comes apart yet.
Anyway, there was some concern about going with an 8spd cassette due to bending axles. With a 14+mm axle, I would think the risk is smaller than with the typical 10mm.
Another interesting finding was that he pieces at the end of the axle, don't know what they are called, are Campagnolo parts. They are the pieces that have the serated edge that contacts the drop out. Mavic drilled out the treads. sliped them over their axle and retain them with c-clips. They are marked CAMP and 82. I assume 1982. The root of the threads are still visable after being drilled out.
Anyway, there was some concern about going with an 8spd cassette due to bending axles. With a 14+mm axle, I would think the risk is smaller than with the typical 10mm.
Another interesting finding was that he pieces at the end of the axle, don't know what they are called, are Campagnolo parts. They are the pieces that have the serated edge that contacts the drop out. Mavic drilled out the treads. sliped them over their axle and retain them with c-clips. They are marked CAMP and 82. I assume 1982. The root of the threads are still visable after being drilled out.
#20
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Fredericksburg, Va
Posts: 9,579
Bikes: '65 Frejus TDF, '73 Bottecchia Giro d'Italia, '83 Colnago Superissimo, '84 Trek 610, '84 Trek 760, '88 Pinarello Veneto, '88 De Rosa Pro, '89 Pinarello Montello, '94 Burley Duet, 97 Specialized RockHopper, 2010 Langster, Tern Link D8
Mentioned: 73 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1607 Post(s)
Liked 2,213 Times
in
1,103 Posts
So I measured a IRD 7speed freewheel and took a measurement below. Looks like it will fit. Does anyone know the overall axial length of an 8spd?
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,866
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1854 Post(s)
Liked 660 Times
in
503 Posts
Um, maybe. The question isn't just dropout spacing. A seven speed freewheel is slightly wider than a standard 6 speed, despite the narrower spacing. While you might have clearance with the dropout there may not be sufficient clearance with the stays. Frames meant for seven speed often have the inside of the stays flattened for extra clearance with the chain. You won't know until you try. Generally, if it doesn't work, a thin washer added to drive side of the axle will add sufficient clearance.
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,866
Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8
Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1854 Post(s)
Liked 660 Times
in
503 Posts
Should work on a 130 mm old hub. allowing 6 mm on each side (normally) extra length to fit in the dropouts normally, you need around 142 mm axle length.