auchencrow

I was just beginning to look at my Raleigh Super Course, which I picked up along with a PX10 from a very kind and generous seller on CL. - It needs some work to be sure, but I think it is one I would like to keep…

I was just now starting to scope it out, and noted it has Capella lugs, and a serial number on the left dropout (0006147) with no letter prefix.. I also noticed that the brake shoes are, for the most part, missing the 700c Mavic wheel rim, and are bottomed out in the original Weinmann 610 calipers.

I realized this Super Course would have had 27” wheels originally -Although it appears someone rode it this way for some time, based on the wear pattern.... And why not? After all, it’s intended to be a “racer”, not a “stopper”!

But seriously, I have two questions:

1) What year is my bike?
2) Is there a way I can get the brake shoes to line up with the 700c rims ?

USAZorro

I'm not sure there's a definitive scheme one can date it by, but I'd guess 68 or 69 based on the serial number scheme.

The brake arrangement is not wise. The bike is a rider, not a racer, and stopping is a major safety concern. Braking with the pads in that position could cause the tire to overheat and blow out - especially dangerous in the front. You'd be much safer with 27" wheels.

prathmann

Not sure of the year. There are a few options to try on the brakes:
1) substitute some brakes with a longer reach (although those are pretty long already)
2) you can usually get a few more mm of reach by filing out the brake pad slots - might be just enough, hard to say from the photos
3) used to be something called a 'dropbolt' that would lower the brake a little. Not sure if they're still available. I think Sheldon's site may have some suggestions on making your own equivalent.

jtarver

If it has similar geometry to a 1976, then I can say from experience, just get some modern 27" wheels and use the stock brakes. I went through a lot of different brake combos trying to run 700c wheels and none of them worked out. The biggest problem being that the front and rear required different reach brakes, and the stopping power was greatly reduced by the loooong reach needed. Even running 27" wheels I had to modify the Tektros to make them work.

Procione

Sell 700c wheels, buy 27". Brake replacement because of reach is a major hassle unless you are into DIY thing. It's called "drop bolt" Read this: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/home-drop.html

auchencrow

Thanks USA Zorro, prathmann, jtarver, and Procione;
- it seems the consensus is to “downgrade” back to 27” wheels.

Good thing I did not order 700c tires for it yet – (though I suppose I would be ordering new 700c tires almost daily, if I left it in the current configuration).

I must admit I was sort of disappointed that there is not some engineered version of Sheldon’s home-made drop bolt solution, but c’est la guerre.

My course is clear – 27” rims. . . .


- I am still in a quandary about the YEAR though. I am now half-wondering if it was pre-1966 based on the following web page I found: It is a Carlton built frame.

https://www.carltoncycles.me.uk/details/lugs3d.html

jtarver

retroraleighs only shows back to '68, but they did offer that color that year...

yellowjeep

Niagara Cycle Works has some pretty good prices on 27in aluminum wheels all right around 30 bucks.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html...A2TE9IQP68MWQU

jacksbike

It appears to me to be a Super Course from between 69 and 71. That model came with 27" wheels. I own an approx. 1978 red one with 700C Weinmann concave rims and center pull brakes. Anyhow, it appears that someone has changed the wheels. Low cost way is to work with the brakes, as mentioned above. Best way is to change the wheels to the correct size that the bike came with. Perhaps you can check your local Craigslist and see if someone is selling a pair of wheels.

Grand Bois

A Weinmann or Dia Compe 750 will solve that problem. It's the longer version of that brake. It's normally much cheaper to replace brakes than to replace wheels.

mparker326

I think it may be a post 72 because prior to that Super Course usually had Nervex lugs. What threading is bottom bracket?

dbarnblatt@usa.

Replacing the brakes with the "750" version of what you have (you have a 610, the 750 is the same exact part, just longer reach) will be a much cheaper option and you still get to use the 700 wheelset, which will also give you a larger selection of tires etc. The brake appear all the time on ebay:
https://cgi.ebay.com/NOS-Mint-Weinman...mZ370255341035

auchencrow

I appreciate the advice on where to get 27” wheels and the Weinmann 750’s longer reach – But I just realized that the French Mavic wheels on my Super Course belong to my Peugeot PX10, which came as part of the package deal, and is still sitting right next to it, with a pair of alloy 27’s that will work just fine with the Weinmanns. ( duh! )

That just leaves me with just one lesser problem: These Mavics were made for tubular tires, so I’ll have to decide whether to buy and install new sew-ups, or a 700 clincher wheel set for the PX10. (That’s a decision I’ll put off to another day).

I'll admit to still being confused on dating the Raleigh though – I gather the Capella lugs put it a little later, but the 27’s put it little earlier, so maybe 1973-77.

Thanks to all for your input.

dbakl

My understanding is Raleighs before 1970 came with the oval badge. I recall those lugs reappeared early-mid 70s.

Grand Bois

I think it's a mistake to try to judge the age by the Capella lugs. I have examples from 1959 and 1973.

sciencemonster

You don't really see the decals on those pics. You could narrow it down to a few years either way by the stickers. From what I can see, I'd guess early seventies.

You also get the longer brake new - although with Diacompe branding. They are still manufactured. About $20. You could by a rear brake and swap out the bolt to make it fit.

Personally, I think the 27 inch wheels look better. Looks more jaunty with big old wheels on it.

auchencrow

Hi sciencemonster -
I agree - I tried them on for size, before starting disassembly for cleaning: They looked like they belonged there. (They may in fact be original though the only ID is "27 x 1-1/4", printed in small black letters near the valve stem )

Here are the decals - they are a little worn, but we have a script Super Course on the top tube and slanted upper case "Raleigh" appearing on the DT and also on the (not shown) rear lower stays.

cudak888 

Slanted downtube decals arrived in 1973, not before. On a related note, some early '73s (of most Raleigh models) came with the '72 lettering, though I've never seen a '72 wearing an early batch of '73 decals - god knows I tried to see if this theory worked the other way 'round. I dare say it is pretty safe to say that an overstock of the older decals existed into early '73, and the new decals were not utilized until the old decals were used up.

Incidentally, I am convinced the lug pinstriping was done by a previous owner. I've seen thick pinstriping from Nottingham, but nothing quite that garish and obvious - it would also explain the red dot at the center of the lower Capella lug in the first picture.

-Kurt

auchencrow

Thank you cudak888 – based on your comment and others I’ve narrowed the date range some.

Regarding the gold pin striping, I have to concede it looks amateurish. Frankly, there are some other minor things too, about the frame assembly, that on close inspection, look like they were a bit “rushed” . (-But after all, Carlton was a “race” shop. : )

Road Fan

The sew-ups will be a lengthy discussion. I like them, and I always suggest that if you have a set of decent wheels already (and those wheels are decent wheels!), why not just see if the tires hold air, and if so, take them out for a short and careful ride. They really don't even need teh glue renewed on a short and careful ride. Pretend it's rainy and the road is greasy. If they're good, they're good. I have put 20+ year old tubulars back in service several times. Or, buy a set of the Yellow Jersey tires from the Yellow Jersey shop, 3 for $50. Decent entry-level. Better ones are better, but they are good enough quality to give you a taste. With the wheels in hand, you are more than halfway there.

Road Fan

Now this looks like a 1973!

cudak888 

Or 1974, for the Super Course Mk.II, with it's multiple white panels, did not arrive until 1975 (and was produced until 1976).

(Correction - it did arrive in '74)

-Kurt

sciencemonster

Remember - if any of those newfangled clincher folk show up in this thread: they are wrong.

ohjonnybegoode

Actually, the Super Course Mk.II was introduced in 1974....(I have an Emerald Green one....

cudak888 

Thank you - I was stuck on '75 for some reason.

-Kurt