dziehr

I'm considering picking up this mystery bike as a fun little project, but am having a hard time identifying the components (this is the only picture from the seller--no close-ups of the lugs, etc.). The seller wrote that the bike was built custom for a friend's father-in-law by an unknown builder in Milwaukee. He noted that the tubing is 4140 (and not 4130)--new to me. He continued:

"The frame is lugged but they are very unique lugs, kinda rough around the edges. It is by no means a high-end frame but it is straight. The components are nothing special, but the hubs are very smooth. The crank is an Ashtabula-type so you'd probably want to replace it. The stem and bars are steel which is typical for track bikes."

I'm not sure what to believe here, especially as the post looks to be Campagnolo NR. Further, the crank looks like a higher end skiptooth, which leads me to believe that the rest of the components are pretty nice. However, I don't have the eagle eye of some of the regular posters here. Any insights?

vjp

Looks like a Wastyn (Chicago) who built the early Paramounts.

Not an Ashtabula crank in that pic.

Looks nice, have fun, leave it as is...

vjp

schwinnderella

Looks like a 1930's bike to me.I would buy it if the price is reasonable,as a matter of fact if you decide not to let me know I am interested in it.

andy e

well the cranks appear to be cottered, not ashtabula. I don't know much about skiptooth, but most cottered stuff is not that great. The stem is nice, but it is weird that it has a pump holder thing on it. Also looks to me like someone spraypainted that ugly paint job, and didn't bother taping off the lower headset pieces. Strange looking headset.. spacer? lockring?

so, not much help, but thats all i got

rhpdxbikes

My Guess is it started out as something else and the reason it has that cruddy paint job is to cover the weld/sweats/brazing that took place to make it a track bike. Its only painted, for the most part, where welding would have been done, I would guess it was an old road bike chopped and sized to fit him and to give track dropouts.

schwinnderella

Now that you mention it I believe I have seen that fork and head lugs on a Wastyn built bike.More pictures might confirm.

SingeDebile

it looks like a very very nice bike, dont part it out.. though if you do I could really use that stem hehe

prof2k

That bike is a rare find. If you have any chance you should buy it.

That is definitely a skip tooth chainring, meaning the bike is at the very newest pre WWII.

Cottered cranks were all there was at the time (yeah I know technically stronglight etc were making cotterless cranks, but you never would have seen them on an american track bike)

That pump holder is just a clamp on it is not part of the frame.

vjp

Wrong.

Roadbikes in the US in the 30's didn't have derailleurs. It is a track bike, it has an internal headset, so the paint is not over top of the cups. I have seen similar paint jobs although this could have been done later.

vjp

rhpdxbikes

Side note, rather a question, I did not say it had a derailleur, but could it not have had a different (non track type) dropout, cut and replaced with a track style dropout? I am shooting in the dark, as I am not savvy on old bikes, rather just throwing thoughts out and learning along the way.

dziehr

All very interesting--what of the contentions that it has 4140 tubing and was built in Milwaukee? And I know questions of this sort are generally despised, but what do you think would be a fair number to offer the seller? Thank you for all of the feedback.

pastorbobnlnh 

Take a look at this '30s Paramount currently on ebay for a comparison. Looks very interesting.

https://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Schwinn-...d=p3286.c0.m14

prof2k

4140 is a variant of cro-moly, just like 4130. Cro-moly was pretty much the best material at the time for building a bike frame.


I have no idea what you should offer the seller. Sorry.

prof2k

Oh yeah. As for the thing about it being built in milwaukee, it very well could have been. At the time there were multiple people building bikes all over the country, many of them now forgotten. I'm really no expert though, it could be a Waystn too.

Soil_Sampler

https://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA...ycles_main.htm

dziehr

Thank you for all of the help with the bike. If I have the opportunity to pick it up for $200 or slightly less, that'd probably be a safe gamble, right? I'm a bit wary of the bike because I'm not looking for another project--one that ultimately won't fit me (I'm 6'2" and this looks to be about a 55cm frame)--but I don't want to pass up a great opportunity or see the bike covered in stickers and locked to a lamppost downtown.

(On a side note, how fortunate are we to have dilemmas like this? Sheesh.)

Hilarystone

This is a very nice track bike from the late 30s may be as late as the late 40s. One inch pitch (skip tooth chain) was used as late the 1960s on the track. This bike has at some time had a gentle modernisation - the Cinelli steel stem, Campy seatpost, saddle and later Lyotard Faucheaux pedals as well as the wheels but this does not take much away from this being really quite gorgeous. The original wheels most likely had wood sprint rims - it looks as if the rear hub might be BSA steel - this would be original and was excellent quality in which case the wheels may have simply been re-rimmed...
The frame is probably built from BSA fittings (most top track bikes were) and the cranks look as if they could be eithyer BSA or Williams; the chainring is Williams. It has a headclip type headset which was used on almost top quality track and road bikes before WWII and on some afterwards in the UK.

dbakl

I'd certainly grab it for a fair price. Does have some early Paramount characteristics, so Wastyn may be possible; but I think he was Chicago, not Milwalkee.

Very cool bike, certainly worth $200.

norskagent

Ask if he has any other "old bike stuff" laying around...