Steel Paramount to go with my Ti Paramount
10-06-09, 04:33 PM
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Steel Paramount to go with my Ti Paramount
Okay, so I've become a fan of the Paramount series since getting my Ti Paramount in the Spring of this year. So I wanted to try out a 50, 52 or 53cm steel Paramount, either of Match or Waterford build. Of course, I don't see many out there, so I was wondering...
If Waterford built the Paramount back in the day, could they build another steel frame today with the same specs -- i.e. tubing, angles, etc., as when they built the Paramount? I imagine the frame would be something close to a Waterford R22. The R33 looks too thick in the tube sections, IMO, to replicate the Waterford steel Paramounts.
Also, I prefer lugged, which I don't know if the Waterford Paramount was. I do know the Match-built Paramount was lugged, but little else.
Thanks for all the help.
If Waterford built the Paramount back in the day, could they build another steel frame today with the same specs -- i.e. tubing, angles, etc., as when they built the Paramount? I imagine the frame would be something close to a Waterford R22. The R33 looks too thick in the tube sections, IMO, to replicate the Waterford steel Paramounts.
Also, I prefer lugged, which I don't know if the Waterford Paramount was. I do know the Match-built Paramount was lugged, but little else.
Thanks for all the help.
10-06-09, 05:32 PM
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Waterford Precision Cycles
816 W. Bakke Ave.
Waterford, WI 53185
Phone: 262-534-4190
Fax: 262-534-4194
If they quote you a price, don't faint.
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10-06-09, 05:38 PM
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10-06-09, 05:56 PM
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Well, yes. I do like that red Paramount, but wasn't that produced as a very limited supply, and at $7K or some gawdawfully high price? Not that it's not worth it, mind you, if you have the bucks.
10-06-09, 07:19 PM
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Well you probably aren't gonna make it happen for much under $2-3k for the frame and fork.
As Deuce Bigalow once said "Its a Custom, Hand, Job"
Get a handful of Nervex Lugs and locate a set of Reynolds Tubes and find a good framebuilder...you could make it happen but it ain't gonna be cheap.
Personally I'd rather spend that kind of money on 3 original Paramounts.
As Deuce Bigalow once said "Its a Custom, Hand, Job"
Get a handful of Nervex Lugs and locate a set of Reynolds Tubes and find a good framebuilder...you could make it happen but it ain't gonna be cheap.
Personally I'd rather spend that kind of money on 3 original Paramounts.
10-06-09, 08:31 PM
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Local Trek shop had a Waterford with Nervex lugs and the frame was polished out to look like chrome.It was a special order.Cost=$15,000
10-06-09, 08:57 PM
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I had Waterford build an RS-22 in polished Reynolds 953 with Sachs Newvex stainless lugs to the same dimensions and angles as my chrome P15-9 Paramount. The Waterford is six pounds lighter than the Paramount.
Here are the two bikes together:
Details of the Waterford:
Here are the two bikes together:
Details of the Waterford:
10-06-09, 09:02 PM
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Waterford road Paramounts were lugged. Here's my '87 Standard which used a mix of Columbus SL and SP tubes.
Details:
Details:
10-06-09, 10:57 PM
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Holy mother, but doesn't surprise me I guess...when I looked at the pricing sheet on the Waterford site I thought, "oh, a frame only costs this?" before seeing what adding everything else to it cost. Let alone the components and everything else...
10-07-09, 12:03 AM
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Six pounds difference? 953 is pretty light. I imagine a lugged 953 Waterford built to the specs of my Ti would also be lighter.
10-07-09, 12:11 AM
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note also the differences in components. I'm sure the frame accounts for less than half the difference.
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10-07-09, 12:15 AM
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True. I didn't think of that at first.
10-07-09, 01:47 AM
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Thanks guys.
The 61cm 953 frame weighs 1670 grams (~3.7 pounds) and the chromed 531 fork weighs ~815 grams (~1.8 pounds). A carbon threadless fork would save about a pound, but just wouldn't look right.
I rode the Waterford from San Francisco to Los Angeles in June for the AIDS/LifeCycle fundraising ride, and it's a very fast, comfortable, long range bike.
It cost nowhere near $10k.
The 61cm 953 frame weighs 1670 grams (~3.7 pounds) and the chromed 531 fork weighs ~815 grams (~1.8 pounds). A carbon threadless fork would save about a pound, but just wouldn't look right.
I rode the Waterford from San Francisco to Los Angeles in June for the AIDS/LifeCycle fundraising ride, and it's a very fast, comfortable, long range bike.
It cost nowhere near $10k.
10-07-09, 11:13 AM
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10-07-09, 12:54 PM
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The lugwork on that 953 frame is incredibly clean
