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  1. #1
    Lug Princess Veloria's Avatar
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    SA "Patent Applied For" AW Hub: How Old is This Lady?

    Got my hands on a "new" Raleigh loop frame.

    I think it is an early DL-1, but not sure.

    The SA AW hub has no date stamp and says "patent applied for". Does that mean it is 1936?

    This bicycle is all original, with quadrant shifter, full chaincase, glass rear reflector, Terry saddle.It is a compact frame with a lugged connector between the looped top tube and downtube.

    The frame is rusty and the wheels even more so, but the hub, shifter and rod-brakes are in amazing, ready-to ride condition. Some photos below.








  2. #2
    hi YoKev's Avatar
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    beautiful!!

  3. #3
    26 tpi nut. sailorbenjamin's Avatar
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    36 looks about right. I've never seen that inscription on an SA hub.
    I have spoken.

  4. #4
    Wood David Newton's Avatar
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    Smashing!
    You are going to get the award for the neatest bike threads in C&V.
    You know that all you are allowed to do with bikes like this is wipe them down with Sturmey-Archer oil and park them outside on a sunny day?
    http://davidnewtonguitars.squarespace.com/

  5. #5
    Lug Princess Veloria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Newton View Post
    You know that all you are allowed to do with bikes like this is wipe them down with Sturmey-Archer oil and park them outside on a sunny day?
    That's the other thing I was wondering about: What to do with it?

    On the one hand, it is a piece of history and perhaps all the components should remain intact - including wheels with super rusty spokes and cracked Dunlop Roadster tires. Open Bicycle is willing to host it as a display piece, so I do not need to find a storage space for it. Already people have been coming in to see it and really enjoying it; so it seems like a nice thing to just keep it there on display as a way to build appreciation for vintage cycles.

    On the other hand, the hub, shifters and brakes appear to be in such amazing shape, that it seems a crying shame not to restore this beauty. Is there some way of restoring her without obliterating the historical value?

    On a separate note, I am confused about the geometry of this bicycle. The seat tube length suggests the frame is for a tall woman, but the virtual top tube length suggests it is for a very small woman. There is very little space between the seat tube and head tube. Was this normal for bicycles of that era?..
    Last edited by Veloria; 10-24-09 at 07:27 PM.

  6. #6
    juneeaa memba!
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    Well, you can certainly remove the rest of the dirt, without hurting the patina. I would try to at least neutralize the rust - SA oil may be just the ticket, as Mr. Newton says...

  7. #7
    Lug Princess Veloria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by luker View Post
    Well, you can certainly remove the rest of the dirt, without hurting the patina. I would try to at least neutralize the rust - SA oil may be just the ticket, as Mr. Newton says...
    Sorry for the ignorance, but you mean SA oil on the frame as well, or?...

  8. #8
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veloria View Post
    Sorry for the ignorance, but you mean SA oil on the frame as well, or?...
    I'd wipe off the dirt, neutralize the rust, and gently go over the paint with a little rubbing compound. Then seal it up with past wax. Replace the tires and tubes, if necessary.

    And ride it!

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    Wipe down the bike with a heavy weight motor oil. If the dirt is thick rub it down a second time. After wipe it with a new cloth and it should be all you have to do. It will be amazing looking. Here is a before and after picture.


  10. #10
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    One would ride that bike in a very upright position and with as much set back as there is the virtual top tube distance does not have to be long at all.

    Such a great find...

  11. #11
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    I also rub down my old steel bikes with a little light oil... it was what people did in the old days and idt works really well to protect the frame.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Coreyk's Avatar
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    Veloria, you *do* realize that you've just passed the gateway, and you'll be dreaming of loop frame pre-war Hercules and Sunbeam roadsters, and end up owning one of each with carbon-acetylene headlamps by this time next year...

    The Co-Habitant won't know what hit him.

    You really do have a feel for lovely bicycles.
    My wife enjoys your blog as much as I do, by the way.

    I vote for cleaning up the problem areas & paste-waxing as suggested, and saving up through the wet months for suitable replacement parts so she's rideable come next May.

    It ought not to be a problem at all to keep most everything original. Save the old parts, and replace where it makes sense: brake pads, saddle, tires, and tubes.
    We still have *all* the original parts for my wife's pre-Raleigh Hercules, but she rides on new tires, a taller alloy stem, and a more comfortable saddle.

    Corey

  13. #13
    Senior Member southpawboston's Avatar
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    agreed with the others re: motor oil. it's a great solvent and adds a protective layer that is (arguably) better than wax. before the days of marketing perfection, motor oil was a common and inexpensive polish/protectant. i would not use rubbing compound as it is abrasive and may remove the patina.

    for the chromed pieces which are heavily rusted (such as the rims), an oxalic acid bath may restore the chrome to something closer to its former glory, but i would be inclined to just leave as is. one part of me would like to see a bike like this brought back to its original glory and enjoyed the way it was meant to be enjoyed, but the other part of me feels that all the rust and decay are intrinsic to its history and tell part of the bike's story, and thus should remain. the former can always be done, but there's only ever one shot at the latter.

    folks, veloria was kind enough to show me this bike in person. it's a nice find and in my opinion, this bike deserves to be preserved and hung on a wall, cracked dunlops and all.

  14. #14
    Lug Princess Veloria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldy57 View Post
    Wipe down the bike with a heavy weight motor oil. If the dirt is thick rub it down a second time. After wipe it with a new cloth and it should be all you have to do. It will be amazing looking. Here is a before and after picture.
    What a difference. And nice bicycle! What are those handlebars?

    Thanks all for the motor oil suggestion. I will return to the shop later this week and have a gentle go at it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    One would ride that bike in a very upright position and with as much set back as there is the virtual top tube distance does not have to be long at all.
    More upright than later models? My 1972 DL-1 is very upright and the seat tube angle is very slack - yet there is a great deal more space between the seat tube and handlebars.


  15. #15
    26 tpi nut. sailorbenjamin's Avatar
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    I think the seat position is leftover from the big wheel days when you would sit kinda far back to keep from going over the front when you hit the brake.
    I have spoken.

  16. #16
    shaken, not stirred. gnome's Avatar
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    Lovely old roadster. I would replace the old tyres and brake pads. give it a good clean, put some protective coating such as wax or oil on the bike and ride it on fine days. It was, after all built to be ridden.

    It may need new oil in the hubs, bottom bracket and headset as well.
    Get a bicycle. You will not regret it if you live. ~Mark Twain, "Taming the Bicycle"
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  17. #17
    Lug Princess Veloria's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coreyk View Post
    Veloria, you *do* realize that you've just passed the gateway, and you'll be dreaming of loop frame pre-war Hercules and Sunbeam roadsters, and end up owning one of each with carbon-acetylene headlamps by this time next year...

    The Co-Habitant won't know what hit him.
    Um.. "Thanks"? : )
    I honestly was not looking to start a collection. This latest loop frame was practically thrown at me, and if I did not take it who knows what fate would have awaited her. So you see, I had no choice, it was the only ethical thing to do...

    Quote Originally Posted by sailorbenjamin View Post
    I think the seat position is leftover from the big wheel days when you would sit kinda far back to keep from going over the front when you hit the brake.
    Interesting, I never thought of that.

  18. #18
    Upright bars SirMike1983's Avatar
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    Mid to late 1930s looks about right for that one. 1936 would be a good guess, stuff went to black-out treatment as the war began.
    Last edited by SirMike1983; 10-25-09 at 08:12 PM.
    English Roadsters, American Roadsters, and Balloon Tire Bicycles
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  19. #19
    Senior Member Coreyk's Avatar
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    Heh. Ethics.

    So you see, I had no choice, it was the only ethical thing to do...
    Yep. We have a 1949-1950 Indian Princess from the same sort of situation. <grin>

    "But sweetheart, it followed me home...."

    I do look forward to seeing some shots of the newest one after a wipedown, either oil or wax.

    How bad off are the tires, really?

    Corey

  20. #20
    26 tpi nut. sailorbenjamin's Avatar
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    The brakes would work better if you clean up those rims. Several folk are offering Chinese reproduction rims, I don't know if they come in 40/32 spoke combos.
    If you do replace the rims, I could use some rusty 28s for a hub brake thang I'm working on.
    I have spoken.

  21. #21
    Senior Member southpawboston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sailorbenjamin View Post
    The brakes would work better if you clean up those rims. Several folk are offering Chinese reproduction rims, I don't know if they come in 40/32 spoke combos.
    If you do replace the rims, I could use some rusty 28s for a hub brake thang I'm working on.
    the rust on these rims has the feel of sandpaper. the braking is probably better like this than with new rims. on the other hand, the rough surface would probably chew the pads down very quickly if used this way.

  22. #22
    rhm
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    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veloria View Post
    That's the other thing I was wondering about: What to do with it?

    ...

    On a separate note, I am confused about the geometry of this bicycle. The seat tube length suggests the frame is for a tall woman, but the virtual top tube length suggests it is for a very small woman. There is very little space between the seat tube and head tube. Was this normal for bicycles of that era?..
    I vote for cleaning. I'd start by wiping everything with a rag and WD40, and see how it looks. Later I'd get around to polishing up the chrome with Brasso and doing fine cleaning here and there. If I were doing this, I wouldn't try to get it looking its best the first day; rather I'd work on it a little every now and then, gradually improving it until it suits me.

    As for the geometry, don't think of it as a lady's bicycle, but rather as private transportation for a priest, or a doctor, or any gentleman wearing a long coat and a homburg.

  23. #23
    Senior Member vincev's Avatar
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    hi,your bike is possibly 1936.I have this Schwinn "New World" that the last owner said he purchased in 1938 also has "Patent applied for." It also has the same shift lever,etc.Also have this Raleigh that looked like black primer and dirt.I used fine rubbing compound and car wax.you will be pleasantly suprised at the finish.
    [IMG][/IMG]
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    Last edited by vincev; 10-26-09 at 11:12 AM.
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    Does rubbing oil on the frame leave any oily residue to cover your pants with?
    Or do you wipe it all off?

  25. #25
    Senior Member southpawboston's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by awc380 View Post
    Does rubbing oil on the frame leave any oily residue to cover your pants with?
    Or do you wipe it all off?
    it will if you don't wipe it off, but it wipes off pretty much entirely if you keep turning your rag and wipe re-iteratively. it's like wax, in that you have to buff it to get the last bit off.

    think of it as a viscous solvent that doesn't evaporate.

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