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Old 10-24-09, 10:43 PM   #1
bikegeekmn
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Guerciotti info please

I run into good stuff once in a while,I had come upon two flipper MTBs I was pretty pleased with-$300-$350 I'll probably get for both.That would have been a pretty good day but I ran into this Guerciotti frame with some Gipiemme components(FR.der,shifters and brakes) as well.I have never heard of Gipiemme,I know Guerciotti is of reasonable quality but, I have yet to determine this bike's fate.It would help me a lot
if anyone knew the basics on this thing-tubing,age,origonal components,model name as well as anything about the manufacturer Gipiemme or Guerciotti.I could ride it ,but it is a little big-it's a 55,I ride a 52,but I have'nt done a proper fit test yet(I just got it),I imagine I could get it to work for me.The paint is just crap,the top tube's paint is aligator skinned really bad.Do a lot of them have problems with paint?There is a fair amount of rust,but I do'nt think it's terminal.
so,uuhhhh,what do youall think?geurciottibb.jpg

guerciotti.jpg

dt.jpg

hdst.jpg
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Old 10-25-09, 12:13 AM   #2
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Looks pre-1982. What does the underside of the BB housing look like and the brake bridge? Not sure if the bikes direct from Italy came with gipiemme. The bikes prepped by Ten Speed Drive were campy equipped and were sprayed with more durable imron in the US.
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Old 10-25-09, 03:36 AM   #3
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Looks about the same vintage as my ca.'78 Guerc. Paint is rather fragile too, being just a thin kind of transparent lacquer over chrome.

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File Type: jpg Guerc complete.jpg (101.0 KB, 40 views)
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Old 10-25-09, 07:47 AM   #4
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Looks about the same vintage as my ca.'78 Guerc. Paint is rather fragile too, being just a thin kind of transparent lacquer over chrome.

Joseph
Except it doesn't appear there is any chrome on the OP's bike.

Last edited by Ex Pres; 10-25-09 at 08:10 PM.
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Old 10-25-09, 08:02 AM   #5
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ttalligator.jpglet me know if you need any more shots.The bb has a star drain hole(no serial#).Joe,if my paint looked like yours I would be thrilled,that is a pretty thing.All the other decals look like the same model(but my top tube,well,it sucks).
is the SL tubing the same level as champion#1?

I'm not terribly vain,but I would have to do something with the top tube-maybe just paint the tube and leave the lug's shape to accent?
total repaint is'nt really in the budget-especially needing new stickers.
sell it ?
trade it?
build it?
I have a 710 frame in great shape-is this WAY above it?
I guess the real question is,what would you do with it?
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Old 10-25-09, 09:37 AM   #6
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If I had your choice to make, I'd examine both your 710 and this frame critically, and see if there are significant differences in workmanship, in your opinion. Then I'd build up the Guerciotti, at least minimally, and ride it around for awhile, before getting rid of it. The Columbus SL Guerciotti with no chrome became their 2nd-tier bike, certainly by the time they started building them with SLX; but it's still a made-in-Italy Guerciotti, and that's worth something to somebody, even with paint issues.
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Old 10-25-09, 10:37 AM   #7
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I wouldn't assume it's an SL frame. Has the look, the brakes, the lack of chrome, an abundance of stickers to not be an SL. Chromor which is quite good but are always labled as such. No sticker indicates SL in many '70 to early '80s bikes. SLX is out of the question. For all we know it could be Falcon ! The Italians feud.
It all seems contradictory but that's how they did it. So, I believe it's Gara or a mix. The Italian paint which I like is fragile; funny the one member states transparent.. have never read that here in the forums. Colors used on some fancy Italian bikes are called "Transparente" in Italian so it may apply. Joe's bike is a better example of nice Italian paint though yours might just be weatherd and it's less candy apple than his. Reading all of you fellows, seems like a good evaluation.
I wouldn't mess with the paint so much. I meen do whats needed to make it appear less appauling but at a two or three hundred price, you won't rec. enough.
If someone likes it, they'll do what they want. Anyway, it's hardly worth lots o' $$
Tange #1 is considerd "better" than SL. SL has remained unchanged for over seventy years. Not a fair comparison. Some vintage Italian bikes with SL fetch three thousand dollars, no Japan Built bike does. Tange #1 was "harder".
The bike looks like those I'd seen in stores and like Legnanos I've had.
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Old 10-25-09, 11:39 AM   #8
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That is a very nice frame, I would love to have it.

I don't think they chromed that frame, both my Pinarello and Guerciotti are fully chromed I do believe, under the paint. The paint on both is lacquer. Lacquer becomes brittle but it has a lovely deep transparency that is made more brilliant by the chrome or white base coat underneath. Unfortunately it is brittle and easily damaged. The same effect can be achieved with two part modern paints by building over a white base, adding clear to the second and more clear to the third coat and then finally after decal application, clear. Two part acrylic laquer can be finished beautifully this way.

The top tube is more rusted because that is where the sweat landed. In a way, if you could clean it up, buff it with some carnuba wax and get the shine back, leave it be, as a badge of honor from the ghosts of past riders, unless it is pitting rust, which needs to be addressed.

This one was done by Ten Speed, a little better paint in that it is somewhat more durable:

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Old 10-25-09, 03:52 PM   #9
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I wouldn't assume it's an SL frame. Has the look, the brakes, the lack of chrome, an abundance of stickers to not be an SL. Chromor which is quite good but are always labled as such. No sticker indicates SL in many '70 to early '80s bikes. SLX is out of the question. For all we know it could be Falcon ! The Italians feud.
I think that you're talking a bit of trash here. The photo in OP's 2nd post clearly shows "Guerciotti" pantograph in the seat stay cap. It's almost certainly an early 80s Guerc, and that would have been either SL or SLX in steel. Without chrome fork or chrome on chain/seatsays, my guess is SL, and weighing the frame is an easy way to tell. Paint with problems most likely indicates a non-TSD frame (those finished in Imron over red oxide). If this frame were chromed, it would be left exposed somewhere.

OP didn't say what brand the dropouts are. Campy?
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Old 10-25-09, 04:34 PM   #10
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This is a real nice Guerciotti frame which I would think is almost certainly SL - 27.2mm seatpost would confirm - Cromor was not made or used in the 70s which is when this frame was built... And SL seat tubes are not rifled but the fork steerer will be - this can be seen when looking at the underside of the steerer under the crown. The DT shifters are Simplex retrofriction - and are very nice...
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Old 10-25-09, 07:31 PM   #11
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o.k,
The dropouts have no designation so,I am assuming they are not campy.I can't get pictures of them right now.The steer tube has no rifling in it at all-the fork's steer tube not the frame.It has a campy headset.the front derailleur is labeled Gipiemme but has an "S" stamped on the front cage plate.the shifters have gipiemme on the face plate no other labeling.Both brakes are Gipiemme sprint.There is no way this thing ever had chrome on it.The seat post is a 26.4.
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Old 10-25-09, 08:14 PM   #12
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According to Caterham's post that would make it the faulk frame.
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Old 10-26-09, 10:17 AM   #13
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Still, nicely detailed. Weigh it bare (nothing except the pressed on headset races left on it). If less than 3 kg for frame and fork combined, then I repeat my advice above: at least give it a ride. If you ride a 52, you can ride a 55 if you like it.
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Old 10-26-09, 10:45 AM   #14
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Still, nicely detailed. Weigh it bare (nothing except the pressed on headset races left on it). If less than 3 kg for frame and fork combined, then I repeat my advice above: at least give it a ride. If you ride a 52, you can ride a 55 if you like it.
Nicely detailed ? now who's talkin' trash ? I saw bikes like that selling for nine hundred in 1989, with CROCE ! How many SLX frames have YOU seen in 1982 ?? How many weren't chromed more than that ?
OK, you gave yourself an out with the SL, so did I by stating the un-labled SL thing.

Mr. Stone is incorrect, how did my brother buy a 1976 bike with Chromor ??

I misspoke in saying Falcon, I meant Faulk which is what it is, maybe Allele, I was being kind.
Might be SL , doubt it and neither the weight OR s.tube diam. confirms such. If it did, why would've Campy offered 8 or more setpost diameters back then ? To sell to Fuji owners ?

The bike has entry level calipers for cyin' out loud. It's a Guerc. not a DeRosa.

Look at wnat the "NO-experts are writing, it THEY who've a rread on the bike
On a good day if I was being giddy, I'd consider 200. Plenty 400 rigs with paint out there.
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Old 10-26-09, 11:28 AM   #15
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In terms of its lack of chrome, color and markings, it looks just like a lower-end Guerciotti I used to own that had Aelle tubing.
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Old 10-26-09, 11:40 AM   #16
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In terms of its lack of chrome, color and markings, it looks just like a lower-end Guerciotti I used to own that had Aelle tubing.
THANKYOU

There it is
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Old 10-26-09, 12:14 PM   #17
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In any case, clean it and wax it and THEN see if it looks good to you or not (a vintage frame should be glossy, period!). 'Worst' case, it's a Falk frame (yes, it's Falk, not 'Faulk'), so what? I've seen some pretty decent Falk-made Guerciotti's and Legnano's, absolutely nothing wrong with that. Will be a little heavier than SL or 531 but compared to the weigth of a complete bike, who cares, it certainly won't feel 'dead' as a cheap gaspipe-frame would. A good pair of wheels and you'll love the ride!

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Old 10-26-09, 12:30 PM   #18
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THANKYOU

There it is
I will add that the Aelle-tubed Guerc I owned had this same flat red paint, which was different from the metallic paint on the SL-tubed Guerciottis I've owned (ones painted in Italy, not in the U.S. by TSD Imports). You can sort of see the metal flake in the picture below:

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Old 10-31-09, 08:06 AM   #19
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Well,I'm having less trouble figuring what to do with it now.I probably wo'nt build it for myself but,I was hoping to build it up for a buddy who has a bike that would canabilize nicely for it (DA brifters).Upon closer inspection it looks like the fork is bent(pushed back slightly) so he's less enthusiastic. O.K so,I'll probably try to trade it for a few key parts or a good 52 frame (I do'nt care if it's Italian) or maybe build it as a frankenbike(I've got a Miyata fork that would fit fine) with 27"s and a mismatch of functional components.At that point at least it could be ridden to see how much I liked it-maybe I will build it for me depending on how it rides(not likely but maybe).While in the planning stages for that I find the head tube has a dent in it (you can kind of see it in one of the first pics)so,I'm thinking this thing hit something at a good enough clip that it
pushed the fork back and dented the head tube.
That kind of closed the deal for me-it will look good as art-as long as it's far enough away not to see all that's wrong with it.
maybe the top of a flag pole LOL.
Thanks for all the info guys-I knew I could get a lot of info from y'all and once again I got more than enough to help make a decision-I wished I would have noticed all that's wrong before I got my hopes up.
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