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Old 10-25-09, 10:49 PM   #1
Chombi 
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Sewups= magic carpet ride!! I'm sold on these tires! + Update on Carbone 7 Plus resto

Well, I finally glued up the Vittoria Rallies on the GL330 wheels I got two weeks ago. It's been a lot of work to get the rims cleaned of the 20ish tear old pertified glue, service the hubs and freewheel and then glue up the tires to the rim yesterday afternoon which took about 45 minutes of slow, patient work with the glue and fingers (found out using the fingers to spread the glue was best to control even spreading and minimize the mess. front tire went on the rim pretty easy, but the rear fought me a little bit when the base tape seems to not settle down fully on to the rim at the valve stem because they folded the tire right at that spot at the factory which made it stiff in that area. I will flex that fold out real good the next time I mount a sewup again...lesson learned. The tires seems to have settled down on the glue real good after sitting at full pressure for a whole day. I think I did OK. None of the problems/horror stories I read about mounting up tubulars. The gluing process felt very theraputic. I found out that one small tube of Continental Glue is good for two thin coats on the rim and one thin coat on the base tape. There was enough left in the forst tube to do one more thin application on the second rim. I ended up with about a third of the second tube left, just enought to coat the third, spare tire's base tape. Do I have to pre-glue the spare?? My racer friends did back in college but they ended up with really messy looking spare tires that get stuck together). Could I just glue it up right before mounting after a flat?
I rode the PSV with the tubulars before the sun went down just to get a feel and WOW! All those years reading about how nice tubulars ride and now I finally know what it's all about! The ride is compliant and comfortable, but also lively. To get the same comfort and compliance from clinchers, I think you usually end up with a tire that just feels dead and unresponsive. For some reason, you get both responsiveness and compliance/comfort with tubulars. It was amazing how it just floats over the cobblestone sections we have for crosswalks around our neighborhood. The tires just seem to float over them and I did not have to stand on the pedals when I go over them, unlike with my Hutchinson ATOM And Vittoria Diamante Pro light clinchers, which I have to because I will be pounded crosseyed with the vibration. The tubulars also seem to feel real "calm" on the road. which makes it easier to concentrate on the riding intuitively and not conciously steering the bike. I think it all comes down to compliance with tubulars. They're act like suspension for the bike, whereas with clinchers, the harsher ride equates to you fighting the tires a bit.
I do have to admit that the high pressure slick tread clinchers I had on the bike seems to have a little bit less rolling resistance than the Rallies. These tubulars seem to have similar rolling resistance as the regular Diamante Pros I had on the bike a few months ago.
Here's how the wheels look like on the PSV:



Really love the way the dark anodizing sets of the wheels against the nice latex sidewalls of the Rallies..........Down with blackwall tires!!
These tubular wheels were really meant for the Vitus Cabone 7 Plus I just aquired, but I'm in the middle of restoring the bike and the progress have been slowed down because of the stuck stem I'm still pounding on and soaking in Liquid Wrench and PB blaster in the last three days.....still stuck, stuck REAL hard, but I'll win over it, even if it take soaking and pounding on it the whole winter!! In the meantime, I'll just enjoy them on the PSV till the other bike's done.

Chombi
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85(?) Vitus Carbone 7 Plus...(restoration project)

Last edited by Chombi; 10-26-09 at 01:45 AM. Reason: corrections
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Old 10-25-09, 11:08 PM   #2
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they look fantastic

i enjoyed your description too...
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Old 10-26-09, 07:38 AM   #3
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For your rusty stem - I think this came from a Mechanic's mag test courtesy of CR - mix 50% acetone and 50% ATF. It's supposed to work much better than any commercially available solutions.

And the PSV looks great. I rode my tubulars over cobbles the first time last Tuesday night. Much better than any clincher I've ridden over the same patch.
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Old 10-26-09, 08:08 AM   #4
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Congrats on the new wheels, and I'm really glad you like the tires!

Re your issue near the valve: Take a good look after a few sessions of riding and see if it hasn't settled out while on the rim. My experience is that even with Rallye's they do settle into a round shape. If they do, then don't do that "flexing back" thing you were thinking about. It's too bad the factory creased them that way, but adding more flexing at that point can't (IME) help anything.
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Old 10-26-09, 08:17 AM   #5
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welcome to the tubolar club! that is a very nice looking Peugeot. I think that style of rim (basic box section tubular) is the best riding rim on the road. I had great luck with the Rallies this past summer. nice riding tire but even better price *giggle*. as for glue on the spare, I never preglued them and most of the people I road with didn't either. once you pull the flat off the glue is tacking enough to hold the inflated tire. I am afraid to admit how many miles I have put on tires I forgot *blushing* to glue on after a flat on a ride.
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Old 10-26-09, 08:19 AM   #6
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when I'm stretching tubulars I have an old set of rims I mount the tires on dry, I then pump them
up to recommended pressure and leave them for about a week, that seems to work out any
settling issues around the stem (and any areas where the tire was folded).

Welcome to the Tubular fold!

marty
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Old 10-26-09, 08:26 AM   #7
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I rode some tubulars for the first time this year and agree it's a fantastic ride. Even at 130 lbs of pressure in the rear tire I didn't feel like I was beat up like the 120 lbs in the clinchers sometimes makes me feel.

Saving the pennies to buy some more tires since I have a few more tubular wheelsets sitting here, courtesy of my dad.
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Old 10-26-09, 10:50 AM   #8
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I just shipped a set of tubular wheels, very light Fiamme Hard Silvers, to A. Winthrop, nearly NOS and with nice tires already mounted, but I'm not bummed....even after reading these posts...

....because txvintage is shipping me a set of newer ones, with a little more blling. They won't be as feather-light at the Fiammes, but they'll handle 8-sp Campy and then I'll maybe see what the enthusiasm is about.

Since I value the folks' words above, I've already bought some Tufo tape and a set of Veloplugs for if/when the new tires he's sending wear out...
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Old 10-26-09, 12:29 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek View Post
when I'm stretching tubulars I have an old set of rims I mount the tires on dry, I then pump them
up to recommended pressure and leave them for about a week, that seems to work out any
settling issues around the stem (and any areas where the tire was folded).

Welcome to the Tubular fold!

marty
I did mount them dry on the rims for at least a week to stretch out at full pressure. I guess it still did not do the trick. Although I'm very satisfied with the Rallies and plan to buy them again if I need a new tire, I think you still get what you pay for in terms of quality, being that maybe, the more expensive tubulars do not suffer as much of the base tape settling "problem" at the valve stem. As long as the tire does not roll off at that point, which I think it wouldn't because of the valve stem, I can pretty much live with it.

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Old 10-26-09, 12:39 PM   #10
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Where did you get the rallys and what size are they? All I have been finding are black/black for 21's. I am looking for a spare before I head out. Same set up with 330's:
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Old 10-26-09, 12:44 PM   #11
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yah, some of the less expensive tubulars (notice I didn't say cheap) have a tendency to sit
up a bit higher at the valve stem due to either the valve attachment to the tube, or overlap
of the basetape, or both. I don't think any amount of stretching can rectify the valve issue.
Once you get used to the Rallys treat yourself to at least one pair of good tires, Vittoria,Veloflex or
Gommitalia. Take that sublime magic carpet ride your talking about and now multiply it by a factor
of 5 to 10!!!

Marty
(p.s. fixed the title).
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Old 10-26-09, 12:58 PM   #12
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For your rusty stem - I think this came from a Mechanic's mag test courtesy of CR - mix 50% acetone and 50% ATF. It's supposed to work much better than any commercially available solutions.

And the PSV looks great. I rode my tubulars over cobbles the first time last Tuesday night. Much better than any clincher I've ridden over the same patch.
I've heard of the Acetone/ATF mix and I might give that a try if PB blaster does not work in the next week. Many have also recomended straight ammonia, but Iwould like to try out the penetrant oil based products first because I do want to avoid the chances any chemical/fire accidents happening with these more potent stuff in my garage if I could help it. the acetone is especailly worrysome, specially if I have to work near a water heater pilot flame that's constantly on. A spill could be a disaster.

Thanks for the compliment on the PSV. The once very plainish looking bike did come up real nice after all the mods I did to it through the years since I bought it back in 84. I've tried to keep the mods as reasonable, relatively inexpensive, not overdone and period correct as much as possible. The tubulars are pretty much the top of the icing for it, and I can't see doing anything else to it at this point other than maintaining it as it now is (unless I find a nice NOS 110mm Cinelli 1R stem in 22mm French quill diameter and/or a Swiss threaded French or Swiss (Edco?) made bottom bracket somewhere!). I might just have to buy a second set of classic sew-up wheels and tires for the Vitus Carbone bike I'm restoring instead and keep these GL330s on the PSV........Hmmmmm......I might just have to start searching for GEL280 or 330 rims and a pair of SSC hubs next for the Vitus Cabone 7...... I'm hooked!

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Old 10-26-09, 01:05 PM   #13
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Where did you get the rallys and what size are they? All I have been finding are black/black for 21's. I am looking for a spare before I head out. Same set up with 330's:
Got the Vittoria Rallies at my local PBS (Performance Bike Store in SF)
they had three blackwalls and three skinwalls that had been hanging from their displays for the whole summer I was lucky to still catch all three skin walls and buy them for about 21 bucks each on sale.
they only carried one size (23's) and it was the correct one for me.

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Old 10-26-09, 02:16 PM   #14
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I purchased several rallys this summer from nashbar. Vittoria list them in 21 and 23 but nash bar only seems to 21s. still a good riding tire.
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Old 10-26-09, 02:30 PM   #15
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I have to wonder what tires everyone's used to riding to think that there's such a big difference between tubulars and clinchers. I ride tubulars on my old racing bikes and clinchers on the newer ones. A clincher that impresses me for a supple ride is the Lithion, which is reasonably light, long-lasting, and comes in a bunch of colors. I find the Rallys to be rather fragile, but they're always the cheapest so I keep buying them. PBK is out of them right now, but the last ones I bought were ~$15 each shipped.
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Old 10-26-09, 05:07 PM   #16
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Great looking bike, and I'm sure you will love yhe tubulars. I rode tubulars most of the summer. Had a flat not long ago on the rear, tread was pretty well worn. Probably close to 1000 miles on the tire, Yellow Jersey special, so I was pleased with the performance. The front barely shows any wear.

Just a reccomendation on spreading glue. A cheapo art brush works well. Use it and toss it.
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Old 10-27-09, 08:09 AM   #17
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Courtesy of txvintage and a complex trade, these tubulars will be my first shot at it...
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Old 10-27-09, 08:43 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lotek View Post
yah, some of the less expensive tubulars (notice I didn't say cheap) have a tendency to sit up a bit higher at the valve stem due to either the valve attachment to the tube, or overlap of the basetape, or both. I don't think any amount of stretching can rectify the valve issue.
Once you get used to the Rallys treat yourself to at least one pair of good tires, Vittoria,Veloflex or
Gommitalia. Take that sublime magic carpet ride your talking about and now multiply it by a factor
of 5 to 10!!!
+1 on that. Also, the Veloflex tubies are perfectly round, the tread and basetape are perfectly straight, the basetape sits perfectly flat with no raised ridge in the middle from the stitching and the tire is very elastic so it is easy to stretch when mounting but it is still a tight fit. I have a 24mm Roubaix on the rear and a 22mm Carbon on the front of my Campy hub wheels on one of my C&V rides, and they just soak up the vibrations on Texas chip seal.
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Old 10-27-09, 10:42 AM   #19
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Tradeoff with Veloflexes is that they have latex tubes, and will need the air pressure topped up for every ride or at least daily.
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Old 10-27-09, 12:00 PM   #20
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In my case I couldn't center my Rallies well on the rim near the stem. Another problem is that when I dismounted them, some of the base tape ripped off. I put some barge cement to glue it back. Regardless the ride quality to price ratio is quite good I love tubulars.
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Old 10-27-09, 12:20 PM   #21
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A clincher that impresses me for a supple ride is the Lithion...
I just put one on the rear of my bike. It did seem to ride nice.
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Old 10-27-09, 12:26 PM   #22
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I did mount them dry on the rims for at least a week to stretch out at full pressure. I guess it still did not do the trick.
Its been decades since I rode sewups, but back in the day we'd put our foot in a new tire, stand on it and gently pull on it, rotating and pulling all around to stretch it. When people talked about aging/stretching tires on rims in those days, they meant like 6 months in a dark closet!

As far as glue on the spare, we always used an older tire as a spare that had already been glued. You don't want to glue up a tire on the road if you can help it, it won't set up and could roll off in a turn.
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