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Old 10-27-09, 06:42 AM   #1
cuda2k
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Campagnolo's Record group in the early 90's: still "C-Record" or...

Corsa Record, aka C-Record was introduced in the mid 80's, but when exactly did the group get replaced? More specifically, was the Record group of the early 90's, still known as C-Record? From my research I am getting conflicting information on if the 1991-1994 "Record" group was, or should be, known as Corsa Record. On VeloBase, I currently have a seperate "Record (1990's)" collection for this time period, and am wondering if this is accurate. From inspecting the 1991 Catalog, I don't see the name "Corsa" anywhere in the Record group information, however the physical appearance of the group still appears to be very C-Recordish. So what says the C&V collective. Thanks.
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Old 10-27-09, 06:51 AM   #2
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My First Gen Record Ergo's don't indicate anything C-Record.

This is a great question though because trying to distinguish Ergo compatible RD's is a real pain when all you have is a pic. I wonder how many C-Record parts I have passed on that were actually early 90's Record.
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Old 10-27-09, 08:35 AM   #3
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That is a great question I've also wondered about - time to do some digging. I do know that nothing in my collection of catalogs and ads refers to Corsa Record after about 1988. You may recall that at that time Campy was reeling from the success of indexed shifting Shimano gear and their own reputation being damaged by poorly functioning synchro stuff. Once the modern 8speed rear der. and redesigned crank came out, it was only referred to as Record. We just need to figure out when that happened, which I define as when you could buy it from a retailer (old racing photos thus don't help much).
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Old 10-27-09, 08:36 AM   #4
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Jon,
interesting question.
I think that the C-Record designation was only used by Campagnolo while they still manufactured
Super-Record components and that by the 1990 catalog it was referred to as just Record.
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Old 10-27-09, 08:44 AM   #5
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ldmataya - the C-Record style crank was made through 94 from what I can tell. In 95 they came out with the more rounded spider/arm style that lived on to 2006 I believe it was when they introduced Ultra-Torque. Believe it was 92 when the dual pivot brakes came into the group, as well as Ergo shifting and other new advances. As often with the case of Campagnolo, it appears there was some "gray area" between when they dropped the "Corsa" designation, and when a truly "new" 90's era Record group was complete. Largely due to the scramble to catch up with Shimano I'm sure.
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Old 10-27-09, 10:00 AM   #6
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ldmataya - the C-Record style crank was made through 94 from what I can tell. In 95 they came out with the more rounded spider/arm style that lived on to 2006 I believe it was when they introduced Ultra-Torque.
Ah you are correct, the early "Record" groups have the c-rec crank, still the most beautiful crank ever made with insides of arms finished better than the outsides of most alu cranks. In my mind, the real beginning of modern Record was the 8s rear derailleur. It was very robust and became the basic design for all campy derailleurs since.
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Old 10-27-09, 02:42 PM   #7
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Guess the question is, should the 1991-1994 "Record" parts stand alone from the "Corsa Record / C-Record" parts when organizing them by Gruppo. The more I look into it, the more I think that they should be combined up to the 1995 8-speed revamp.
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Old 10-27-09, 05:58 PM   #8
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Guess the question is, should the 1991-1994 "Record" parts stand alone from the "Corsa Record / C-Record" parts when organizing them by Gruppo. The more I look into it, the more I think that they should be combined up to the 1995 8-speed revamp.
This clearly needs more research.

I think we should collect Record era Ergo groups/components and send them to Cuda. I'll load up a spare frame set worthy of being an evaluation platform and make the perilous and grueling journey to the Casa de Cuda to do the field research.
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Old 10-27-09, 06:22 PM   #9
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I'd consider shooting Chuck Schmidt an e-mail.
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Old 10-28-09, 06:56 AM   #10
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Thanks for the suggestion. I'll dig up his email and inquire.
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Old 10-28-09, 11:45 AM   #11
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I'd consider shooting Chuck Schmidt an e-mail.
+1. However, for what it's worth, I always considered C-Record more of a nickname, though it did sometimes appear in the literature. I believe the official name, at least for the first generation, was Record 180, though it was typically stated as Record. I vaguely recall seeing a later generation under Record 188.
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Old 10-28-09, 01:57 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ldmataya View Post
Ah you are correct, the early "Record" groups have the c-rec crank, still the most beautiful crank ever made with insides of arms finished better than the outsides of most alu cranks. In my mind, the real beginning of modern Record was the 8s rear derailleur. It was very robust and became the basic design for all campy derailleurs since.
So I should take my old c-record crank & BB off my soon-to-be rain bike ?

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However, for what it's worth, I always considered C-Record more of a nickname, though it did sometimes appear in the literature.
It said it on the boxes too.
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Old 10-28-09, 03:24 PM   #13
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It's a bit of a weird setup, first generation ergo levers/RD were labeled Record but the group was still called C-Record
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Old 10-28-09, 03:25 PM   #14
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Further proof is that 8 speed Shamal wheels came with a C-Record 8 speed freehub, which only worked with the Record/C-Record group.
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Old 10-28-09, 03:30 PM   #15
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Great question. I suppose one could argue that 1994 should be the cut-off since there were still some components that had the original Corsa Record design (Cranks, seatpin, front derailleur...). However, I would vote for '91 as the cut-off...for two reasons really.

I think the introduction of the Ergo lever in 1992 is pivotal. IMO, that Ergo lever set in motion changes like Exa-drive and all of the other drivetrain changes that came after. To me, that is what ushered in the modern Record.

The catalogs also changed at this time. Now I know it's just a catalog but they moved away from those glyphs they had been using since C-Record was introduced and replaced them with glossy images and a more modern look that continues today. Food for thought.
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Old 10-28-09, 04:05 PM   #16
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Those glyphs are so cool. I wonder how much time & energy Campy spent working out those colorful graphics? About the same amount of time Shimano took to perfect SIS & STI? At least Valentino was doing something & not passed out in a drunk.
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Old 10-28-09, 05:04 PM   #17
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I agree with 1990 being the last year for C-record.

I don't have a 1990 catalog so I assume the 1989 catalog is representative of the 1990 model year.

The redesigned rear derailleur in 1991 sort of clinches it for me. The catalog calls it record, yes there are parts carried over but that is irrelevant I think. I mean athena got chorus monoplanar brakes and the cranks when chorus got the CdA cranks and so on.

So for me 1991-1994 is post C-record and should be lumped in with the later generation of record.
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Old 10-29-09, 10:28 AM   #18
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Based on the information here, and after some time looking at the 90-97 catalogs here is where I'm putting the break points for Campagnolo's C-Record/Record groups on VeloBase.com:

Corsa Record (aka C-Record): 84-90
Record (1991-1994) - 8sp Record w/ new Derailleur, Ergo shifting, etc etc
Record (1995-1997) - Last of the 8sp Record

1997 puts us well out of "Vintage" territory at least for another 5 or so years so I'll stop there.

There is some overlap between each group, and that usually only diminishes a fair bit a year or two after the roll over.

Of course, other groups experienced much the same sort of transition during the same time period, Chorus, Athena, and CdA all underwent a large amount of change from 89 to 93. And with Campy's love of trickle down technology, yearly changes of model numbers (or complete omission of model numbers in several catalogs) it is going to be a challenging task to represent these changes as accurately as possible. Fun stuff!
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