Advertise on Bikeforums.net



User Tag List

Results 1 to 18 of 18
  1. #1
    Unique Vintage Steel cuda2k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Allen, TX
    My Bikes
    Kirk Frameworks JKS-C, Serotta Nova, Gazelle AB-Frame, Fuji Team Issue, Schwinn Crosscut, All-City Space Horse
    Posts
    11,487
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Campagnolo's Record group in the early 90's: still "C-Record" or...

    Corsa Record, aka C-Record was introduced in the mid 80's, but when exactly did the group get replaced? More specifically, was the Record group of the early 90's, still known as C-Record? From my research I am getting conflicting information on if the 1991-1994 "Record" group was, or should be, known as Corsa Record. On VeloBase, I currently have a seperate "Record (1990's)" collection for this time period, and am wondering if this is accurate. From inspecting the 1991 Catalog, I don't see the name "Corsa" anywhere in the Record group information, however the physical appearance of the group still appears to be very C-Recordish. So what says the C&V collective. Thanks.
    [CENTER][URL="http://VeloBase.com"][IMG]http://velobase.com/App_Themes/VeloBase2_blue/Images/VeloBase2TitleCampagnolo.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][URL="http://JonPFischer.com"][COLOR="#006400"]Fischer Photography[/COLOR][/URL] - [URL="http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/785462-My-new-modern-quot-Classic-quot-Kirk-JKS-Classic-Terraplane"][COLOR="#8b0000"]Kirk Frameworks JKS-Classic Build Thread[/COLOR][/URL][/CENTER]

  2. #2
    Tilting with windmills txvintage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    North Texas 'Burbs
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    4,832
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    My First Gen Record Ergo's don't indicate anything C-Record.

    This is a great question though because trying to distinguish Ergo compatible RD's is a real pain when all you have is a pic. I wonder how many C-Record parts I have passed on that were actually early 90's Record.

  3. #3
    Senior Member ldmataya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Mt. Horeb, Wisconsin
    Posts
    252
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    That is a great question I've also wondered about - time to do some digging. I do know that nothing in my collection of catalogs and ads refers to Corsa Record after about 1988. You may recall that at that time Campy was reeling from the success of indexed shifting Shimano gear and their own reputation being damaged by poorly functioning synchro stuff. Once the modern 8speed rear der. and redesigned crank came out, it was only referred to as Record. We just need to figure out when that happened, which I define as when you could buy it from a retailer (old racing photos thus don't help much).

  4. #4
    Forum Admin lotek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    n.w. superdrome
    My Bikes
    1 trek, serotta, rih, de Reus, Pogliaghi and finally a Zieleman! and got a DeRosa
    Posts
    17,646
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Jon,
    interesting question.
    I think that the C-Record designation was only used by Campagnolo while they still manufactured
    Super-Record components and that by the 1990 catalog it was referred to as just Record.
    Sono pių lento di quel che sembra.
    Odio la gente, tutti.

    Are you a registered member? Why not? click here to register. Its free, and only takes 27 seconds!
    Want to upgrade your membership? Click Here.

  5. #5
    Unique Vintage Steel cuda2k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Allen, TX
    My Bikes
    Kirk Frameworks JKS-C, Serotta Nova, Gazelle AB-Frame, Fuji Team Issue, Schwinn Crosscut, All-City Space Horse
    Posts
    11,487
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    ldmataya - the C-Record style crank was made through 94 from what I can tell. In 95 they came out with the more rounded spider/arm style that lived on to 2006 I believe it was when they introduced Ultra-Torque. Believe it was 92 when the dual pivot brakes came into the group, as well as Ergo shifting and other new advances. As often with the case of Campagnolo, it appears there was some "gray area" between when they dropped the "Corsa" designation, and when a truly "new" 90's era Record group was complete. Largely due to the scramble to catch up with Shimano I'm sure.
    [CENTER][URL="http://VeloBase.com"][IMG]http://velobase.com/App_Themes/VeloBase2_blue/Images/VeloBase2TitleCampagnolo.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][URL="http://JonPFischer.com"][COLOR="#006400"]Fischer Photography[/COLOR][/URL] - [URL="http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/785462-My-new-modern-quot-Classic-quot-Kirk-JKS-Classic-Terraplane"][COLOR="#8b0000"]Kirk Frameworks JKS-Classic Build Thread[/COLOR][/URL][/CENTER]

  6. #6
    Senior Member ldmataya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Mt. Horeb, Wisconsin
    Posts
    252
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cuda2k View Post
    ldmataya - the C-Record style crank was made through 94 from what I can tell. In 95 they came out with the more rounded spider/arm style that lived on to 2006 I believe it was when they introduced Ultra-Torque.
    Ah you are correct, the early "Record" groups have the c-rec crank, still the most beautiful crank ever made with insides of arms finished better than the outsides of most alu cranks. In my mind, the real beginning of modern Record was the 8s rear derailleur. It was very robust and became the basic design for all campy derailleurs since.

  7. #7
    Unique Vintage Steel cuda2k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Allen, TX
    My Bikes
    Kirk Frameworks JKS-C, Serotta Nova, Gazelle AB-Frame, Fuji Team Issue, Schwinn Crosscut, All-City Space Horse
    Posts
    11,487
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Guess the question is, should the 1991-1994 "Record" parts stand alone from the "Corsa Record / C-Record" parts when organizing them by Gruppo. The more I look into it, the more I think that they should be combined up to the 1995 8-speed revamp.
    [CENTER][URL="http://VeloBase.com"][IMG]http://velobase.com/App_Themes/VeloBase2_blue/Images/VeloBase2TitleCampagnolo.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][URL="http://JonPFischer.com"][COLOR="#006400"]Fischer Photography[/COLOR][/URL] - [URL="http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/785462-My-new-modern-quot-Classic-quot-Kirk-JKS-Classic-Terraplane"][COLOR="#8b0000"]Kirk Frameworks JKS-Classic Build Thread[/COLOR][/URL][/CENTER]

  8. #8
    Tilting with windmills txvintage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    North Texas 'Burbs
    My Bikes
    Many
    Posts
    4,832
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by cuda2k View Post
    Guess the question is, should the 1991-1994 "Record" parts stand alone from the "Corsa Record / C-Record" parts when organizing them by Gruppo. The more I look into it, the more I think that they should be combined up to the 1995 8-speed revamp.
    This clearly needs more research.

    I think we should collect Record era Ergo groups/components and send them to Cuda. I'll load up a spare frame set worthy of being an evaluation platform and make the perilous and grueling journey to the Casa de Cuda to do the field research.

  9. #9
    Seņor Member USAZorro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Carlisle, PA
    My Bikes
    1954 Hetchins M.O., 1959 Viking Severn Valley, 1970 Raleigh Pro, 1972 Fuji "The Finest", 1974 Raleigh Superbe&Comp, 1976 Raleigh Team Pro, 1994 Trek 830 MTB, 2000 Bob Jackson Arrowhead, Unicycle
    Posts
    13,034
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I'd consider shooting Chuck Schmidt an e-mail.
    The search for inner peace continues...

  10. #10
    Unique Vintage Steel cuda2k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Allen, TX
    My Bikes
    Kirk Frameworks JKS-C, Serotta Nova, Gazelle AB-Frame, Fuji Team Issue, Schwinn Crosscut, All-City Space Horse
    Posts
    11,487
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Thanks for the suggestion. I'll dig up his email and inquire.
    [CENTER][URL="http://VeloBase.com"][IMG]http://velobase.com/App_Themes/VeloBase2_blue/Images/VeloBase2TitleCampagnolo.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][URL="http://JonPFischer.com"][COLOR="#006400"]Fischer Photography[/COLOR][/URL] - [URL="http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/785462-My-new-modern-quot-Classic-quot-Kirk-JKS-Classic-Terraplane"][COLOR="#8b0000"]Kirk Frameworks JKS-Classic Build Thread[/COLOR][/URL][/CENTER]

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    9,999
    Mentioned
    9 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by USAZorro View Post
    I'd consider shooting Chuck Schmidt an e-mail.
    +1. However, for what it's worth, I always considered C-Record more of a nickname, though it did sometimes appear in the literature. I believe the official name, at least for the first generation, was Record 180, though it was typically stated as Record. I vaguely recall seeing a later generation under Record 188.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Homebrew01's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Ffld Cnty Connecticut
    My Bikes
    Old Steelies I made, Old Cannondales
    Posts
    16,206
    Mentioned
    7 Post(s)
    Tagged
    1 Thread(s)
    Quote Originally Posted by ldmataya View Post
    Ah you are correct, the early "Record" groups have the c-rec crank, still the most beautiful crank ever made with insides of arms finished better than the outsides of most alu cranks. In my mind, the real beginning of modern Record was the 8s rear derailleur. It was very robust and became the basic design for all campy derailleurs since.
    So I should take my old c-record crank & BB off my soon-to-be rain bike ?

    Quote Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
    However, for what it's worth, I always considered C-Record more of a nickname, though it did sometimes appear in the literature.
    It said it on the boxes too.
    Last edited by Homebrew01; 10-28-09 at 03:02 PM.
    Bikes: Old steel race bikes, old Cannondale race bikes, less old Cannondale race bike, crappy old mtn bike

  13. #13
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    SF
    My Bikes
    1972 Paramount Track, 1972 Paramount P13 Road, 1972 Paramount Tandem, 1986 Paramount Road, Merckx MXL, Gunnar Cross Hairs, Samson Illusion NJS, KHS Aero Track, Titus Racer X 29er, Tom Palermo Custom Touring
    Posts
    1,573
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    It's a bit of a weird setup, first generation ergo levers/RD were labeled Record but the group was still called C-Record

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    SF
    My Bikes
    1972 Paramount Track, 1972 Paramount P13 Road, 1972 Paramount Tandem, 1986 Paramount Road, Merckx MXL, Gunnar Cross Hairs, Samson Illusion NJS, KHS Aero Track, Titus Racer X 29er, Tom Palermo Custom Touring
    Posts
    1,573
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Further proof is that 8 speed Shamal wheels came with a C-Record 8 speed freehub, which only worked with the Record/C-Record group.

  15. #15
    Senior Member vxpro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Greenville, DE
    My Bikes
    '03 TIME VX Pro, '87 ALAN Record Carbonio, '94 Cannondale Killer V900 Singlespeed, '00 Fisher Supercaliber, ALAN Cyclocross
    Posts
    81
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Great question. I suppose one could argue that 1994 should be the cut-off since there were still some components that had the original Corsa Record design (Cranks, seatpin, front derailleur...). However, I would vote for '91 as the cut-off...for two reasons really.

    I think the introduction of the Ergo lever in 1992 is pivotal. IMO, that Ergo lever set in motion changes like Exa-drive and all of the other drivetrain changes that came after. To me, that is what ushered in the modern Record.

    The catalogs also changed at this time. Now I know it's just a catalog but they moved away from those glyphs they had been using since C-Record was introduced and replaced them with glossy images and a more modern look that continues today. Food for thought.

  16. #16
    Senior Member embankmentlb's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    North, Ga.
    My Bikes
    Bernard Hinault Look - 1986 tour winner, Guerciotti, Various Klein's & Panasonic's
    Posts
    1,684
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Those glyphs are so cool. I wonder how much time & energy Campy spent working out those colorful graphics? About the same amount of time Shimano took to perfect SIS & STI? At least Valentino was doing something & not passed out in a drunk.

  17. #17
    Senior Member cyclotoine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    YT
    Posts
    7,785
    Mentioned
    6 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    I agree with 1990 being the last year for C-record.

    I don't have a 1990 catalog so I assume the 1989 catalog is representative of the 1990 model year.

    The redesigned rear derailleur in 1991 sort of clinches it for me. The catalog calls it record, yes there are parts carried over but that is irrelevant I think. I mean athena got chorus monoplanar brakes and the cranks when chorus got the CdA cranks and so on.

    So for me 1991-1994 is post C-record and should be lumped in with the later generation of record.
    1 Super Record bike, 1 Nuovo Record bike, 1 Pista, 1 Road, 1 Cyclocross/Allrounder, 1 MTB, 1 Touring, 1 Fixed gear

  18. #18
    Unique Vintage Steel cuda2k's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Allen, TX
    My Bikes
    Kirk Frameworks JKS-C, Serotta Nova, Gazelle AB-Frame, Fuji Team Issue, Schwinn Crosscut, All-City Space Horse
    Posts
    11,487
    Mentioned
    2 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)
    Based on the information here, and after some time looking at the 90-97 catalogs here is where I'm putting the break points for Campagnolo's C-Record/Record groups on VeloBase.com:

    Corsa Record (aka C-Record): 84-90
    Record (1991-1994) - 8sp Record w/ new Derailleur, Ergo shifting, etc etc
    Record (1995-1997) - Last of the 8sp Record

    1997 puts us well out of "Vintage" territory at least for another 5 or so years so I'll stop there.

    There is some overlap between each group, and that usually only diminishes a fair bit a year or two after the roll over.

    Of course, other groups experienced much the same sort of transition during the same time period, Chorus, Athena, and CdA all underwent a large amount of change from 89 to 93. And with Campy's love of trickle down technology, yearly changes of model numbers (or complete omission of model numbers in several catalogs) it is going to be a challenging task to represent these changes as accurately as possible. Fun stuff!
    [CENTER][URL="http://VeloBase.com"][IMG]http://velobase.com/App_Themes/VeloBase2_blue/Images/VeloBase2TitleCampagnolo.jpg[/IMG][/URL][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][URL="http://JonPFischer.com"][COLOR="#006400"]Fischer Photography[/COLOR][/URL] - [URL="http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php/785462-My-new-modern-quot-Classic-quot-Kirk-JKS-Classic-Terraplane"][COLOR="#8b0000"]Kirk Frameworks JKS-Classic Build Thread[/COLOR][/URL][/CENTER]

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •