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  1. #1
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    DT Index shifting -- need advice

    Hi,

    I recently bought a 1987 Appel race frame that has enough rear spacing for a 10-speed cassette. I'd like to put SRAM or Shimano on the bike, but also use down tube index shifters with whichever groupset I choose.

    Can anyone advise me as to what I need to do this? Thank you.

  2. #2
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    Maybe the guts of bar-end shifters and the bodies of Shimano DT shifters would work together to make this work.

  3. #3
    Senior Member bluenote157's Avatar
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    You can use pretty much any shimano rear derailleur except pre shimano dura ace. The indexing is determined by your shifter. I think Shimano makes dura ace 10 speed downtube shifters. All you would really need is the following:

    10 speed downtube shifters Shimano Dura Ace??
    pretty much any shimano rear derailleur (i would recommend shimano 105 and above)
    10 speed specific chain
    and your 10 speed cassette

    Are you going to run a double or a triple? compact or standard? Depending on this, you will either need a short cage or long cage derailleur.
    On the off chance that you are considering friction downtube shifters, I recommend Suntour Sprints or the Diacompe Silvers.. hands down the best retro friction shifters out there.

  4. #4
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    I'm going to run a double 39/53, or possibly a Rival 38/52. My front derailleur has to braze on. Supposedly I can run any FD, correct?

  5. #5
    Senior Member bluenote157's Avatar
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    I think you are going to want to go with a double specific braze-on front derailleur. If you were going with a compact, you might have problems since you might need to lower the front derailleur and depending on your braze-on you might be limited to vertical placement. Other than that, i think you are good to go.
    What I said earlier applied to shimano. I dont know if sram derailleurs are compatible with shimano's indexing system. I do however know that the cassette is compatible. Perhaps others will comment.

  6. #6
    Senior Member KtotheF's Avatar
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    sram and shimano pull different amounts of cable, so the rear derailleur and shifters would have to be the same, but a company called jtek makes a little dohickey that you can put on your rear derailleur to make them compatible (apparently campy and sram shifters pull the same amount?)

    http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

    but my understanding is that you could use any front derailleur

  7. #7
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    You can use pretty much any shimano rear derailleur except pre shimano dura ace.

    pre shimano?

    I thought all shimano was interchangable except dura ace
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis, '79 Mixte SOLD, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  8. #8
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Appel? I worked with him for a while back in the mid-80s. He's quite the perfectionist. Do you have any pictures of your frame?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
    Appel? I worked with him for a while back in the mid-80s. He's quite the perfectionist. Do you have any pictures of your frame?
    Yep, here you go.

    It has a Time carbon fork that I'm replacing with a butted Curt Goodrich. It has battle scars galore all over it, but the frame is straight and solid. I'm torn between leaving it as is, scars and all, or repainting it.

    I have a Pearl quill stem for it and a seat post - I think Campy - can't remember, in the works. Have Mavic CXP 33s for it, but am still up in the air about components.

    I was going to go with a full Rival group set until I found an old Dura Ace 7700 crank, then saw a pair of DA DT index shifters this morning. That got me on the idea of going retro/modern.

  10. #10
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    The only 10 speed indexed downtube shifters available are Shimano 7800 or 7900. With these shiftes you can use SRAM or Shimano cassettes and front derailleurs. You can't use SRAM rear derailleur because the amount of cable pull is different (as mentioned above). If it were me I would use a 9 or 10 speed 105, Ultegra, or Dura Ace rear derailleur, whatever front derailleur you want and whatever crankset you want. Be advised though that if you use a 9 speed or less crankset, you will suffer from the chain dropping in between the chain rings unless you get 10 speed chain rings. The spiders on all the crank sets are the same thicknesses but the teeth on the chain rings are designed to bend toward each other to prevent chain drop.

  11. #11
    Senior Member KtotheF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fivethumbs View Post
    Be advised though that if you use a 9 speed or less crankset, you will suffer from the chain dropping in between the chain rings unless you get 10 speed chain rings. The spiders on all the crank sets are the same thicknesses but the teeth on the chain rings are designed to bend toward each other to prevent chain drop.
    Huh, never would have thought of that, thanks for the info, I'm filing that away in my brain for future reference

  12. #12
    Senior Member bluenote157's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
    You can use pretty much any shimano rear derailleur except pre shimano dura ace.

    pre shimano?

    I thought all shimano was interchangable except dura ace
    oops.. i meant to say all shimanos except dura ace pre-1997 or something like that. This is what happens when i'm watching tv, downloading music, and responding on bf while on my blackberry. Sorry for the mix up.

  13. #13
    PanGalacticGargleBlaster Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
    pre shimano?

    I thought all shimano was interchangable except dura ace

    You're correct. Any shimano gear except Dura-Ace is interchangeable.


    In this situation however, the OP can use any non-DuraAce Shimano Derailleurs as long as they have enough travel (FD could be Double or Triple, doesn't matter)...the hard part is gonna be finding a 10 speed indexed DT lever. As someone mentioned earlier, the indexing comes from the Lever and most 10 speed Setups now a days are Brifters...the only 10 speed indexed DT shifters I've seen are Dura-Ace and I'm pretty sure that will only work properly if you go full Dura-Ace drivetrain (FD, RD, Cassette and Shifters). Campy has 10 speed indexed barcons but they probably are only compatible with campy cassettes and derailleurs

  14. #14
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    I'll want to keep it simple, so I'll probably use Dura Ace all around, except at the FD, for which I have a braze on Campy Record.

    Only thing is I'd like to run a 12-29 10-speed, or something to that extent, and 1) I'm not sure Shimano makes one; 2) I'm not certain a short-cage RD can handle a 29-tooth gear.

    Does anyone have advice to this effect?

    Also, any recommendations for brake levers for the drop bars?

    Thx.

  15. #15
    Senior Member bluenote157's Avatar
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    I like the tektro/cane creek aero levers. Their hoods feel very similar to campy's. They come in black or silver levers with black or gum colored hoods. They have the quick release button integrated into the lever much like campy levers. This would be great if your calipers don't have a quick release. In fact, they would be just as great if you did have the quick release on your calipers.

    Do a search on Tektro 200A or Cane Creek...

  16. #16
    PanGalacticGargleBlaster Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
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    +1 for Cane Creek SCR-5. I love mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by dd74
    I'd like to run a 12-29 10-speed, or something to that extent, and 1) I'm not sure Shimano makes one; 2) I'm not certain a short-cage RD can handle a 29-tooth gear.
    1) Be Sure you are looking at Dura-Ace clusters..here's a 12-23 that came up on an ebay search http://cgi.ebay.com/Shimano-DURA-ACE...item5883ddbd7d

    2) Check the specs on the Derailleur you plan to use, Keep Chain wrap capacity in mind as well.

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