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Old 10-27-09, 11:15 PM   #1
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Brooks saddle badges - check my accuracy

I threw this page together on The Headbadge primarily from a post I made this evening:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/brooksbadges.html

Though I do have a disclaimer that the information given may not be entirely correct, potential errors are not a thing of satisfaction to me. This said, I'd appriciate it if the resident forum Brooksophiles could have a look at it and point out any inaccuracies (or omissions) if they note any.

Thanks!

Take care,

-Kurt
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Old 10-28-09, 12:11 AM   #2
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Thanks for the interesting summary. See the picture at bottom right of the following link for a different sans-serif badge on the B17 sprinter model introduced in the late 1920s. This maybe a badge that predates the earliest one you show from the 1930s.

http://www.classiclightweights.co.uk...brooks-hs.html
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Old 10-28-09, 12:29 AM   #3
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Cool to see. The last san serif version is my least favorite. Aside from not looking so classic, the kerning on the letters is god awful.
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Old 10-28-09, 08:47 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by DMNHCAGrandPrix View Post
Thanks for the interesting summary. See the picture at bottom right of the following link for a different sans-serif badge on the B17 sprinter model introduced in the late 1920s. This maybe a badge that predates the earliest one you show from the 1930s.
Interesting. I might have to send a PM to Hilary to see if I can use that photo.

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The last san serif version is my least favorite. Aside from not looking so classic, the kerning on the letters is god awful.
I agree completely. My first thought when I saw one was "is this a fake?" That's how bad it looks.

Just be glad they didn't screw up the leading

-Kurt
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Old 10-28-09, 09:07 AM   #5
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That's a great start, and I look forward to seeing it grow!

Here's one for your collection. The photos below show the saddle and bag that were on my 1950 Norman Rapide when I got it (photos courtesy of JunkYardBike). This is not the saddle specified for this bicycle; the original owner had it converted to upright bars and wider saddle. The new bar and stem were from another Norman of the same period, though, so I believe the conversion was done before the bike ever left the shop. Of course I don't know when that was, but it was before 1959 at any rate. Soooo... the actual date of this saddle could be anything between ca. 1948 and 1958.


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Old 10-28-09, 09:11 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
I threw this page together on The Headbadge primarily from a post I made this evening:

http://www.jaysmarine.com/brooksbadges.html

Though I do have a disclaimer that the information given may not be entirely correct, potential errors are not a thing of satisfaction to me. This said, I'd appriciate it if the resident forum Brooksophiles could have a look at it and point out any inaccuracies (or omissions) if they note any.
nice info on that page. i only wanted to add that i have a 1973 pro with the small badge with the letters completely worn off. it looks identical to the example in your photo!
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Old 10-28-09, 09:30 AM   #7
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Soooo... the actual date of this saddle could be anything between ca. 1948 and 1958.
Interesting. This badge is very similar to the B.17 Sprinter on classiclightweights.co.uk - could it be that this was a transition between the '30s badge and the '50s badge?

Mind if I use the first of those two photos?

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Old 10-28-09, 09:44 AM   #8
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Of course, Kurt, you're welcome to use the photos.

I hadn't looked at the classiclightweights page when I posted them my photos. But between the two B-17's shown there, and mine, I see no differences at all. I think they're all the same badge. Note also that the the cutouts in the top of my saddle are exactly, or at least nearly, the same as the cutouts in the 1930 B-17. For all I know my saddle could be older still; how would one know?
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Old 10-28-09, 09:48 AM   #9
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But between the two B-17's shown there, and mine, I see no differences at all. I think they're all the same badge. Note also that the the cutouts in the top of my saddle are exactly, or at least nearly, the same as the cutouts in the 1930 B-17. For all I know my saddle could be older still; how would one know?
The 1930's B.17 has the same badge as I show on the site - serifed. Your badge - and the Sprinter - are not. The longitudinal cutouts lasted into the 1950's, far as I know.

I'll probably have to wait until another Brooks with this badge pops up - hopefully, I can locate an original that can be dated to the frameset it is on.

-Kurt
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Old 10-28-09, 10:15 AM   #10
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Oh, yes, serifs. Now I see 'em.
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Old 10-28-09, 12:13 PM   #11
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Here's a better one from a '73 small rivet pro. If you'd like to use it.


And, here's one I don't see on your page. It's from a newer large rivet pro.
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Old 10-28-09, 01:01 PM   #12
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I'll probably have to wait until another Brooks with this badge pops up - hopefully, I can locate an original that can be dated to the frameset it is on.
How about Neal Lerner's 1949 Clubman?
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Old 10-28-09, 01:34 PM   #13
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Thanks Kurt, great page!

I'm not clear,can anyone help with this? When did Brooks change from the oval impressed sign on the sides of the saddle to the more "squarish" one?

(Borrowing your photo to help explain what I'm talking about - hope that's OK?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3382/...9490330e_o.jpg
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Old 10-28-09, 04:12 PM   #14
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EDIT: Just updated the page - give it a look. Same URL: http://www.jaysmarine.com/brooksbadges.html

Hello fellows,

I just came in from looking at the '51 Raleigh Sports "C" Tourist. Turns out this is sitting on the back of its B.66:



The saddle came from my '73 DL-1, but I doubt whether it is original or not. Badge style looks identical to the '60s/70's variant, but is neither tin nor plastic. I'm not quite ready to say it falls in that category just yet though.

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Here's a better one from a '73 small rivet pro. If you'd like to use it.
Thanks for the two photos, Gearbasher - I'll put them up on the site. I notice that the badge on your '73 small rivet Pro is unique in itself - it has a stepped badge shape as opposed to the rectangular w/rounded end design of the three that I have here.

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How about Neal Lerner's 1949 Clubman?
I don't recall whether his machine has the original saddle on it (I'm probably thinking of his '51 though). I'll have a look.

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I'm not clear,can anyone help with this? When did Brooks change from the oval impressed sign on the sides of the saddle to the more "squarish" one?
You've got me there. The old B.66 top with the '30s badge has the round stamp as well.

Take care,

-Kurt
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Old 10-28-09, 04:40 PM   #15
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Here's one form the 20's +/-

The saddle cover is a reproduction built on a original frame. The badge is original, although not from this saddle.

The Wool Jersey photo will not open here, so you will have to click on the link to view.

http://www.wooljersey.com/gallery/v/...geViewsIndex=1
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Old 10-28-09, 04:52 PM   #16
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Kurt,
I didn't think you would update the site so fast. I think I might have erred with the '73 badge. Since you pointed out the slight difference (great eyes), I decided to check it against a few other Brooks saddles I own. When I purchased the saddle (eBay), I was told it was stamped A '73, but very faintly. I checked with a jeweler's loupe and can not find the stamp. So I matched the saddle to a stamped '73 and the nose is cut differently. The nose on this saddle is cut more like a '77 Brooks I own, but the badge on the '77 looks just like the one on the '73. So, I really can't confirm the date. Sorry, for any difficutlties.
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Old 10-28-09, 04:58 PM   #17
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Kurt,
I didn't think you would update the site so fast. I think I might have erred with the '73 badge. Since you pointed out the slight difference (great eyes), I decided to check it against a few other Brooks saddles I own. When I purchased the saddle (eBay), I was told it was stamped A '73, but very faintly. I checked with a jeweler's loupe and can not find the stamp. So I matched the saddle to a stamped '73 and the nose is cut differently. The nose on this saddle is cut more like a '77 Brooks I own, but the badge on the '77 looks just like the one on the '73. So, I really can't confirm the date. Sorry, for any difficutlties.
I gather then that this saddle has the nose cut low in front, correct? I've seen a '79 small-rivet cut in that same manner - the only problem is, I forgot to take a photo of it's badge. This is the saddle I refer to:



Don't worry about nose cut styles. Brooks produced both open and closed-nose saddles with both rivet sizes off and on throughout the years - with no rhyme or reason for doing so.

I also have a large-rivet '79 with the v2 badge, so if yours is a '77 - or thereabouts - the two designs must have run concurrently.

Take care,

-Kurt
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Old 10-28-09, 04:59 PM   #18
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Here's one form the 20's +/-
Excellent. Mind if I use the photo?

-Kurt
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Old 10-28-09, 05:10 PM   #19
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I gather then that this saddle has the nose cut low in front, correct? I've seen a '79 small-rivet cut in that same manner - the only problem is, I forgot to take a photo of it's badge. This is the saddle I refer to:
Actually, the nose is cut extremely high. It might even be a little higher than my '77.

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Old 10-28-09, 05:34 PM   #20
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Looks as if someone chopped a bit off the nose to access the tension bolt.

-Kurt
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Old 10-28-09, 05:43 PM   #21
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Looks as if someone chopped a bit off the nose to access the tension bolt.

-Kurt
If they did, they spent the time coloring the leather to match. Plus, the tension bolt hasn't been moved.
Anyhow, to try to make amends for adding some confusion in your life, here's a picture of my '77 badge. It's not perfect, but a bit more legible than the '73 you have posted.
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Old 10-28-09, 05:52 PM   #22
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Interesting. I've updated the photo on the server, but I'm holding off from uploading the page; I've already added Otis' picture to the HTML code of the page, and would prefer to wait until I have his permission.

-Kurt
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Old 10-28-09, 06:01 PM   #23
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Excellent. Mind if I use the photo?

-Kurt
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Old 10-28-09, 06:13 PM   #24
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Be my guest.
Done.

Updates made to the site - I encourage everyone to give it a look over.

-Kurt
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Old 10-28-09, 06:37 PM   #25
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You might be interested in this:
http://wallbike.com/blog/2009/03/02/big-brooks-badge/
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