Why is titanium controversial?
01-11-13, 08:48 PM
#153
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The thing is that I like paint. I love paint! I like color! brown / gray metal just does not do it for me.
Whatever the advantage a Ti frame has is not enough of a trade off.
Whatever the advantage a Ti frame has is not enough of a trade off.
01-12-13, 10:38 AM
#154
"Chooch"
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Photo below shows my recently acquired Ciocc Titan. Found it on eBay last November and had it shipped here from Zurich. I'm guessing it was built-up around 1999 or shortly after based on components (Campy Chorus/Racing T 9x3, 3T Mutant stem). Including new Time I-Click pedals, stainless bottle cages and Cateye computer, I've spent under $1,600 total on the bike. Its very a sweet ride. I've had it down at my local bike shop and it was the subject of much admiration. No controversy here.
01-12-13, 10:48 AM
#155
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Photo below shows my recently acquired Ciocc Titan. Found it on eBay last November and had it shipped here from Zurich. I'm guessing it was built-up around 1999 or shortly after based on components (Campy Chorus/Racing T 9x3, 3T Mutant stem). Including new Time I-Click pedals, stainless bottle cages and Cateye computer, I've spent under $1,600 total on the bike. Its very a sweet ride. I've had it down at my local bike shop and it was the subject of much admiration. No controversy here.
Has a great look.
Any additional detail shots available?
01-12-13, 01:21 PM
#157
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Ciocc Cat...could you post some more photos of the welds? I want to try and see who built it...the seat cluster doesn't look like Litespeed, which would have been my first guess.
01-12-13, 01:33 PM
#158
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Photo below shows my recently acquired Ciocc Titan. Found it on eBay last November and had it shipped here from Zurich. I'm guessing it was built-up around 1999 or shortly after based on components (Campy Chorus/Racing T 9x3, 3T Mutant stem). Including new Time I-Click pedals, stainless bottle cages and Cateye computer, I've spent under $1,600 total on the bike. Its very a sweet ride. I've had it down at my local bike shop and it was the subject of much admiration. No controversy here.
01-12-13, 02:14 PM
#159
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01-12-13, 08:33 PM
#160
Procrastinateur supreme
Beautiful looking ride - and it's really an intriguing design choice to have double downtubes - so I second the request for detail shots - esp the head tube/down tube joint. Really a head-turner!
Last edited by CrankyFranky; 01-12-13 at 08:41 PM.
01-12-13, 09:07 PM
#162
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I'm guessing Eastern European...there was a Czek builder who I saw made frames for some of the euros and the welds at the drop outs looked similar. I don't think it's Litespeed or sandvik.
01-12-13, 09:24 PM
#163
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That's very possible. Giovanni "Ciocc" Pelizzoli sold the Ciocc trade mark to Stefano Bonati and his partners in 1991. I believe that frame building was probably farmed-out to a number of different builders after that. Regardless, the double downtube was probably intended to add stiffness to the bottom bracket. The Titan accelerates like a scared rabbit but is amazingly smooth-riding on typically less-than-ideal south Louisiana asphalt. I've also been carving tight turns with it at speed. Wish I'd had it back in my early crit racing days - I might have actually placed!
01-13-13, 02:58 PM
#164
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01-13-13, 05:15 PM
#165
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I would love to get my hands on an old Ti Road bike. After cracking 3 steel Mountain bikes, I went Ti a couple years ago and love it. Lynskey is making some great bikes over in Tennessee. Not Classic, but all I have in the Ti category
01-14-13, 08:24 PM
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01-14-13, 09:06 PM
#167
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Thanks to a bad fall on a steel Schwinn MTB, I've got a titanium downtube...inside my right tibia. That's enough Ti for me.
01-14-13, 10:29 PM
#168
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I was watching that auction at the end of last year but didnt bid. I'm glad it went to a forum member. I've already got a Ti bike and love it. I just wasn't sure how the Ciocc would handle with the different down-tube.
01-14-13, 10:57 PM
#170
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I really did - it's nice to be appreciated in this life time.
01-14-13, 11:08 PM
#171
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That Ciocc is beautiful. Looking at that bottom bracket makes me think that someone was incredibly skilled to do such beautiful work in such ttight spaces afforded by the double down tubes and the chain stay bridge. Nice, nice bike.
01-15-13, 05:21 AM
#172
Strong Walker
Two parallel small tubes in a parallel orientation are in no direction stiffer than a single, larger tube of the same weight. Go to your local hardware store, pick a plastic tube of large diameter, hold it on both ends and try to twist that. Repeat same with two smaller tubes of same material and combined weight, held in parallel to each other...
When used on bikes, it will combine a less stabile BB with additional weight
This dual tube thingie (Colnago did the same with early Ti and CF frames) is a workaround typically used when no pre-made tube of the desired large diameter is to be had. Of course, the shortcomings of such a design are usually described in marketing brochures as "adding comfort" and such things.
On a classic, this is no issue because such little oddities just add charm
Last edited by martl; 01-15-13 at 10:13 AM.
01-17-13, 04:43 PM
#174
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This is the Titus frame I built up with the Alfine 11-speed hub, that I mentioned a few pages back.
It was built to see if the Alfine was worthy of a high end road machine. It is. The fork is a custom
Reynolds 953 made by Dave Anderson for this project. I didn't want carbon! I used a Surly chain tensioner but I regard it as a place keeper. It interferes with easy wheel removal. The shift is a place keeper too. You really have to wonder what Shimano was thinking- the shift fails to take advantage of the hub's capabilities, and also fails if you try to jump two gears at once. The twist grip shifts that Rolhoff makes and Shimano makes for their 8-speed work much better. The bike weighs about 20 pounds and tends to be my main ride.
01-21-13, 07:15 PM
#175
"Chooch"
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However, the Titan's twin downtubes are not parallel. They form a triangle with the base at the bottom bracket. The twin tubes are welded together just before they meet the head tube and spaced far apart at the BB. The water bottle bosses span both tubes to add additional reinforcement. Disadvantage: you're adding an extra tube (albeit smaller diameter than normal) and hence some extra weight, plus the fabrication is somewhat more labor intensive. Probably not much, but apparently enough that the modern Ciocc Misfit titanium frame abandoned the double downtube design in favor of a larger diameter downtube (probably with internal reinforcing).
As far as the ride goes, on last Sunday's ride with the club I appreciated the Titan frame's vibration absorbing ride qualities. My hands occasionally go numb when riding my vintage Columbus SL steel frame Ciocc San Cristobal on the less-than-smooth south Louisiana back roads that I frequent, but I had no such problem with the Titan despite a more aggressive riding position.
Yeah, I think I'll keep it!