HSean

Well It's the first time i've ever heard of such a thing and now own that thing in question, i'm not 100% on what the point of this is but wouldnt mind hearing some info about it.

Some things I wonder are. if it's not broken should I touch it? lol
Do you think distance riding will bother it, I aint no schwinn pro. lol

it's kinda neat because it's made that theres no way for the chain to fall off at all lol

Heres the bike. if you need close ups of any part or anything just ask.

Dan Burkhart 

I presume you mean your chainrings freewheel and your cassette is fixed, correct? This allows shifting without pedalling as long as the bike is moving.
I haven't seen more than one or two like that. The Landrider autobike uses a system like that.

Jeff Wills

Oh, wow... I think it's a mongrel. It's definitely got a Front Freewheeling crank, but the rear freewheel looks incorrect. I thought the FFS system only came with a FFS Uniglide cluster- that one has an earlier skip-tooth Shimano freewheel. I also thought that the FFS system was combined with Shimano Positron II shifting- that one has a Schwinn friction shifter and a Shimano Titlist (?) rear derailleur. Did Suburbans ever come with FFS? I'm getting hazy...

As with any old Schwinn, it's built strong but heavy. What kind of distance were you thinking of riding it?

mkeller234

I have owned a Suburban with FFS and Positron II with the same decals as the OP's bike. I know the two systems were typically paired together but I was under the impression that they could be used separately, the only difference is it would not be indexed shifting. I agree though, the large cog on the freewheel looks strange and the rear derailleur seems out of place. One other thing to note, my Suburban had a much different style of chain ring so maybe this bike was fitted later on. You can see it still has the Schwinn twin stick shift levers so it's definitely friction.

Here is my old FFS/ Positron II Suburban to show the differences (yes the seat clamp is on backwards)

Sixty Fiver

I know the FFS was offered in '82 along with the Selecta crankset and I have seen a road bike fitted with these and a conventional derailer set up... another friend rides a townie much like the Suburban with the one piece crank that does have the skip tooth cog on the freewheel and conventional friction shifters.

I think the differences came down to who was doing the building and the price point they were aiming for...the Positron was a unproven and new concept for many and believe it was a pricey option compared to conventional friction shifters.

raverson

From the '82 Shimano catalog.

jack002

I think the Ross bikes in the early 80s also had this FFS system. Odd sounding, I know.

noglider 

Yup, I have a Schwinn Collegiate with FFS, and I recently tuned up a Ross Eurosport for a neighbor, which has FFS. We were just talking about FFS on another thread. I'm agnostic on the concept.

Sixty Fiver

It was a solution looking for a problem and is now another interesting bit of cycling history... it does not seem to have been widely applied.

mkeller234

I thought is was fun in it's own quirky way, it never gave me any problems either. I know the rear derailleur uses a sold wire "cable" and I imagine that they are not going to be around forever...

There is a guy on Schwinn forums that loves Positron/FFS so much that he converts all of his builds to it.

treebound 

I've seen quite a few of these. Last one I tuned up and swapped off I told the guy to measure the shift wire if it ever breaks and try to find a guitar string with the same diameter to replace it with. The LBS doesn't have the cable/wire in their system.

HSean

You mean theres silly wires in this bike? Aww damn. and i'm in canada lol. whats with these american bikes and the thin seat poles? I've never seen them before. only on bikes i've imported. luckly everything works lol. i'm debating on lacing a diff rim into the rear hub, I have a nice set of thin 27" alloy rims I've been wanting to use for years on something. thanks for the info and what not ya all posted too.

mkeller234

No, yours probably does not have the weird cables. Your bike looks like it has a standard friction shifting set up and no a Shimano Positron system. You do have the FFS system though but that's totally separate.

HSean

Apparently mines a 1978 model. I also just finished assembling it and will post some random pictures when I wake up.

Jeff Wills

The skinny seat posts came on all Schwinn bikes built like that, and quite a few cheap chain-store bikes. Here's the history of the Schwinn "electro-forged" bikes: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/varsity-shaddox.html and https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chicago-schwinns.html

Bianchigirll 

HSean I don't see anyone addressing this so I think I will chime in. I beleive the 'point of this' was to make shifting more comfortable for novice riders. it seems likely that most people who buy that style of bike wanted a '10 speed' but were used to riding a three speed and therefore in the habit of pausing in their pedalling to shift. with the FFW system they were able to do this. I agree with whoever said it was a solution looking for a problem/issue. however if I ever saw a nice mixtie or ladies with it I may buy it for the novality

bikerosity57

Yes the wholr idea is that you can shift while not pedaling. The front freewheel system really isn't a bad idea, and with a little effort you can rig a motor on the bike uing the inner chain ring as the drive ring, and have a five speed transmission.

Bianchigirll 

OH that gives me an idea for the '57 knucklehead I have laying about

HSean

Pictures posted. I was actualy thinking about removing the gear system on this bike and turning it into a 3 speed since I love 3 speeds. Thats some good info also Bianchigirl. Being canadian I never see any of these weird bikes lol also that motor idea is pretty good too. I posted some more pics I just took at main post.

Bioflamingo

I've got a Schwinn Varsity with this setup. I don't enjoy riding it much, but I keep just to say I have it. A very unusual novelty that makes for an interesting conversation from time to time, but that's about it.

Dan Burkhart 

I have to ask, is this really an FFS system? It appears from the pictures to be a one piece crank, whereas as far as I knew, FFS was square taper. Did Shimano make both versions or was this something proprietary by Schwinn?
I presume it would mount in an American BB shell, correct?

HSean

Well it is a one piece FFS I know because the crand says it right on it lol I know little about american bikes. this is the second i've ever owned, I have a firestone and this one.

RobbieTunes

My LBS has a NOS FFS crankset, and a spare set of the bearings. I had it on a Panasonic Tourist 10, and liked it, as long as I was going slow. It tends to slow down when coasting, due to a lot of stuff still moving.

Dan Burkhart 

If you are considering replacing that crank set with a conventional one, I may be interested in taking that one off your hands. If it fits an American (Ashtabula) BB shell, I might be able to use it.
I'm thinking of mounting something like that for a stoker crank on my old Schwinn tandem. Mabe then I could get my wife to ride it with me.
She hates not being able to coast when she likes.

T-Mar

0128220]Oh, wow... I think it's a mongrel. It's definitely got a Front Freewheeling crank, but the rear freewheel looks incorrect. I thought the FFS system only came with a FFS Uniglide cluster- that one has an earlier skip-tooth Shimano freewheel. I also thought that the FFS system was combined with Shimano Positron II shifting- that one has a Schwinn friction shifter and a Shimano Titlist (?) rear derailleur. Did Suburbans ever come with FFS? I'm getting hazy[/QUOTE]

It is not a mongrel. That is the original version of the friction freewheel, with the 28AT cog. It was introduced prior to Uniglide cogs (which came out in 1978 but weren't used on the friction freewheel until 1980). The rear derailleur is the 400FF, which was a friction derailleur specifically designed for the front freewheel system. Positron was introduced prior to the FFS and the two, though often paired, were independent systems that could be used on their own. The presence of a friction freewheel with the 28AT cog and a 400FF rear deraiilleur suggest this bicycle is circa 1977-1979.

The 400FF rear derailleur on your bicycle uses a standard cable. The Positron rear derailleur used a solid, push-pull cable because they did not have a return spring.

It is a FFS crankset. Shimano offered FFS cranksets in Ashtabula, cottered and three piece cotterless versions.

On the contrary, both Positron and FFS were solutions to valid concerns. Both products were introduced on the heels of the big boom. There were a lot a cyclists intimidated by derailleur gear sets. They were either new to the sport, accustomed to coaster brakes or, at best, familiar with (indexed) 3 speeds. For most them, friction shifting was a complex process of numerous actions. Positron eliminated the fiddling with the shift lever, allowing them to their eyes on the road. FFS allowed them shifting while coasting. They did not have to pedal at what seemed an abnormally high cadence and then soft pedal to execute a good shift. If they absentmindedly resorted to their 3 speed habit and back-pedaled to execute the shift, it worked. If you left your bicycle in too high a gear at the end of a ride, you could shift into a lower gear while walking the bicycle and did not have to start the ride in too high or gear or try to change gears while lifting the rear wheel and simultaneously pedaling and shifting.

Having been raised on derailleur bicycles, most of us consider the process of friction shifting as second nature. But having sold them during the boom, I can assure you that it caused a lot of anxiety for newcomers, particularly adults. Positron and FFS alleviated some of these fears and facilitated a transition into the sport that otherwise might not have happened. Both systems actually worked well. They did what they were supposed too and repairs or complaints were rare. Both designs had a relatively long life and lasted until the introduction of SIS, so I don't understand why everybody is constantly referring to them as failures.