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  1. #51
    Iconoclast rat fink's Avatar
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    Yeah, I don't think I will go that way then. Are "spare parts" that were "laying around" considered freebies? The reason I ask is because I have a lot of bike stuff sitting around that I don't remember what the origin of it is. Is it cheating to use parts that you have to build a complete bike?




    Always needlessly complicating things,


    Joe.
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  2. #52
    Fuji Fan beech333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rat fink View Post
    Yeah, I don't think I will go that way then. Are "spare parts" that were "laying around" considered freebies? The reason I ask is because I have a lot of bike stuff sitting around that I don't remember what the origin of it is. Is it cheating to use parts that you have to build a complete bike?




    Always needlessly complicating things,


    Joe.
    I believe this was already discussed. If you have parts, you have to find the value of those parts, whether by Ebay or other means. At some point, you may have paid for those parts, so this is to be fair to those of us who have no parts bins.

  3. #53
    The Brave Descender High Fist Shin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beech333 View Post
    I believe this was already discussed. If you have parts, you have to find the value of those parts, whether by Ebay or other means. At some point, you may have paid for those parts, so this is to be fair to those of us who have no parts bins.
    Correct. For parts you have in your bin, assign a fair market value if you don't remember what you paid for it.

    -Judge Shin
    In life there are no mistakes, only lessons. -Shin

  4. #54
    Iconoclast rat fink's Avatar
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    Oh, gotcha.
    "Winning is the best deodorant. Someone can look at your bike and say it stinks, but if you win with it, suddenly it's okay." - Jim Busby

  5. #55
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by treebound View Post
    Keep in mind, folks, that there is no budget limit for this competition. Yes, there is significant reward for maintaining a miserly budget, but if you go beyond the budget threshold required to earn points, you can still earn 40 points if you end up with a stylin', ingenious ride. We tried to balance the scoring system to reward thrift, but encourage creativity.

  6. #56
    Designer steppinthefunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
    Keep in mind, folks, that there is no budget limit for this competition. Yes, there is significant reward for maintaining a miserly budget, but if you go beyond the budget threshold required to earn points, you can still earn 40 points if you end up with a stylin', ingenious ride. We tried to balance the scoring system to reward thrift, but encourage creativity.
    I would love to see an entry with modern components on a classic frame. 2009 Centaur in alloy can be had for $700.00 (new) now-a-days. Breaks the budget by a long shot but I would still love to see it!

  7. #57
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steppinthefunk View Post
    I would love to see an entry with modern components on a classic frame. 2009 Centaur in alloy can be had for $700.00 (new) now-a-days. Breaks the budget by a long shot but I would still love to see it!
    I'm not sure how that would rank on the ingenuity scale: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...STI-s-or-Ergos

    Unless you're thinking of something radically different...

  8. #58
    working on progress treebound's Avatar
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    "Fair Market Value"

    To me this means one of two things:
    Category 1: something which I feel has a decent or strong value in the cycling or collectable market and which is something I would try to get max value out of on an auction site or in a collector's/enthusiast's forum if I decided to sell it. Items in this category, if used on a contest project, would have to be valued at what I would be willing to sell them for (apart from any potential good will feel good thanks for the help type of gifting with said items).

    Category 2: Items I've got laying around for projects or swapping that I'd have no problem selling cheap to just about anyone if I needed to clear out space. For example I've got a variety of handlebars and derailleurs I've pulled off parts bikes or taken off of bikes I was fixing up to use or gift or flip. Those parts, while a market value might be able to be established, in reality to me aren't worth the price research, so I'd personally value the handlebars at free to $5 or $10. Last summer I picked up an alloy drop bar with aero brake levers at a yard sale for $5, real market value would be higher so if I used them on this project I'm not sure if I'd use actual cost or sellable value, I'd probably use both and put a range down for final build cost. Derailleurs, while I might be able to get $10 at a velo swap or on $Bay, in reality I wouldn't bother with the hassle and would sell them off for a buck or three, so I'd put a build value of $1-$5 on them depending upon condition and what they were. But if I used the Campy set I pulled off a donor frameset/bike then I would take the time to figure out a current true market value and use that $ number.

    There's a whole lot of subjectivity, but in the end I'd just focus on being honest and let the numbers work out to whatever they work out too without any real focus on budgetary constraints. And if something ends up killing the budget limits then I'll just shelve that idea or project for another day and work on something else for the contest instead.

    A lot of words to basically say it is what it is so don't over-complicate the situation.

    Does that help clarify the issue, or did I just stir up the soup with a greasy pedal wrench?

  9. #59
    working on progress treebound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
    Keep in mind, folks, that there is no budget limit for this competition. Yes, there is significant reward for maintaining a miserly budget, but if you go beyond the budget threshold required to earn points, you can still earn 40 points if you end up with a stylin', ingenious ride. We tried to balance the scoring system to reward thrift, but encourage creativity.
    Okay, and while there may be no contest budget limit like last year, I do have a wallet limit, so let me revise what I posted and say instead that an 8-speed IGH is a wallet killer. I do have an optional alternate, I just have to see if I can first make it fit, then make it work.

  10. #60
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by treebound View Post
    Category 2: Items I've got laying around for projects or swapping that I'd have no problem selling cheap to just about anyone if I needed to clear out space. For example I've got a variety of handlebars and derailleurs I've pulled off parts bikes or taken off of bikes I was fixing up to use or gift or flip. Those parts, while a market value might be able to be established, in reality to me aren't worth the price research, so I'd personally value the handlebars at free to $5 or $10. Last summer I picked up an alloy drop bar with aero brake levers at a yard sale for $5, real market value would be higher so if I used them on this project I'm not sure if I'd use actual cost or sellable value, I'd probably use both and put a range down for final build cost. Derailleurs, while I might be able to get $10 at a velo swap or on $Bay, in reality I wouldn't bother with the hassle and would sell them off for a buck or three, so I'd put a build value of $1-$5 on them depending upon condition and what they were. But if I used the Campy set I pulled off a donor frameset/bike then I would take the time to figure out a current true market value and use that $ number.
    Treebound, I think you're doing all we can ask of any contestant: playing as fairly as possible and making reasonable value assessments. The only thing I'd suggest is that if you purchased something well below market value, and you remember the actual cost (as in your example above of the $5 bar/brake lever combo), that's your cost. You only need make a FMV assessment on parts for which you've lost your accounting record (which is often memory). Also, if you've purchased a complete bike for $50, but pull off a brakeset that might be worth $100, your actual cost is only $50. If the complete bike cost was $200 on the other hand, you would assess FMV at $100 for that same brakeset.

    Obviously, there's room for lots of fudging here, but we hope in a friendly competition like this no one attempts to intentionally deceive - which I'm sure won't happen!

  11. #61
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    ^ Well said. The spirit of the competition is not to show who can build a bike out of parts that they can score cheap, but who can build a bike out of parts and materials that ARE cheap.

    I have a Gios with a Suntour Superbe Pro/Campy Record mixed group that I got for free. I could put that up with a cost of $0 and it would look sweet. Sadly I would get very few points in the ingenuity category for my luck and would certainly have lost to a build like last year's winner.

  12. #62
    Designer steppinthefunk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JunkYardBike View Post
    I'm not sure how that would rank on the ingenuity scale: http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...STI-s-or-Ergos

    Unless you're thinking of something radically different...
    I'm thinking a slick deal on used modern components with flat bar controls on upright style bars and cream tires. A modern version of this on a budget:


  13. #63
    Seņor Member atoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnnrmccloskey View Post
    Just gotta wait for the snow here to melt so I can start rummaging
    Quote Originally Posted by michael k View Post
    x2
    x3

    I love the idea of this contest! But winter really puts a huge damper on my willingness to ride to thrift stores and scavenge dumpsters or alleys etc, AND there are no garage sales in Chicago until after March. So I think I'll just sit this out but take some inspiration by watching the competition unfold.

  14. #64
    Since 1938... JunkYardBike's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steppinthefunk View Post
    I'm thinking a slick deal on used modern components with flat bar controls on upright style bars and cream tires. A modern version of this on a budget:
    All you need to do to enter this year is send an email to mkeller!

    Your idea is obviously more radical, but this caught my eye recently:



    Apparently the seller is changing some parts (though I'm not sure this is the seller's bike).

    http://www.serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68089

    And in the event anyone here is unaware, there's lots of inspiration on this website, though I'm guessing most of these examples are not exactly cheap:

    http://www.cyclofiend.com/cc/

  15. #65
    The Brave Descender High Fist Shin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atoms View Post
    x3

    I love the idea of this contest! But winter really puts a huge damper on my willingness to ride to thrift stores and scavenge dumpsters or alleys etc, AND there are no garage sales in Chicago until after March. So I think I'll just sit this out but take some inspiration by watching the competition unfold.
    If this contest turns out to be the success I think it will, there will be another one in 2011. We'll set it up for late spring of 2011. Easier for the contestants that want to paint their bikes in the warm weather. And easier to go on the hunt for items at the thrift stores. Better selection too.

    -Judge Shin
    Last edited by High Fist Shin; 01-04-10 at 08:50 PM.
    In life there are no mistakes, only lessons. -Shin

  16. #66
    Senior Member michael k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stausty View Post
    The spirit of the competition is not to show who can build a bike out of parts that they can score cheap, but who can build a bike out of parts and materials that ARE cheap.


    I got to say I'm really enjoying this challenge and having fun even if it is difficult to come up with something that is original...and cheap. Although did come up with an Idea to Woo the judges for only 20 cents from Walmart.

    Any body else having trouble remaining annonumous?<(sp) or is it just me?
    Last edited by michael k; 01-03-10 at 04:28 PM.

  17. #67
    Senior Member cnnrmccloskey's Avatar
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    Should we be expecting a confirmation PM?

  18. #68
    Rustbelt Rider mkeller234's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cnnrmccloskey View Post
    Should we be expecting a confirmation PM?
    Yes, sorry for the delay. I just moved over to a new computer and did not have access to microsoft excel to update my list. PM sent
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  19. #69
    working on progress treebound's Avatar
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    I've got a saddle I'd like to use, I've got a frameset I planned to use, I've got a concept I'd like to build towards, but the parts conflict. Best analogy I can come up with is like trying to interbreed a cheetah to a giraffe with a little muskox mixed in and a hint of Morgan Horse for good measure, problem is the parts don't play well together and instead of a stew I'm winding up with a conflaguration. Oh well, back up, pick a direction, and what works will be put to use, and what doesn't play well with the other components or goaled concept will be put to pasture for another project on another day.

    Progress is negative, but since negative values are out then I'm back to net zero.

    So I guess I'm just posting a progress report to keep my bifurcated project rolling and to get 2010 started. 8-)

  20. #70
    Senior Member cnnrmccloskey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by treebound View Post
    I've got a saddle I'd like to use, I've got a frameset I planned to use, I've got a concept I'd like to build towards, but the parts conflict. Best analogy I can come up with is like trying to interbreed a cheetah to a giraffe with a little muskox mixed in and a hint of Morgan Horse for good measure, problem is the parts don't play well together and instead of a stew I'm winding up with a conflaguration. Oh well, back up, pick a direction, and what works will be put to use, and what doesn't play well with the other components or goaled concept will be put to pasture for another project on another day.

    Progress is negative, but since negative values are out then I'm back to net zero.

    So I guess I'm just posting a progress report to keep my bifurcated project rolling and to get 2010 started. 8-)
    Sounds dificult but I can't say if you succed I would expect anything to beat out a Cheeaffekox Horse bike

  21. #71
    Seņor Member atoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Machin Shin View Post
    If this contest turns out to be the success I think it will, there will be another one in 2011. We'll set it up for late spring of 2011. Easier for the contestants that want to paint their bikes in the warm weather. And easier to go on the hunt for items at the thrift stores. Better selection too.

    -Judge Shin
    Thanks your Honor! I look forward to learning from the mistakes peeps make in Round 1.

  22. #72
    The Brave Descender High Fist Shin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by atoms View Post
    Thanks your Honor! I look forward to learning from the mistakes peeps make in Round 1.
    In life, there are no mistakes, only lessons.

    So say we all.

    -Judge Shin
    In life there are no mistakes, only lessons. -Shin

  23. #73
    Senior Member michael k's Avatar
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    Being computer illiterate (and in general)
    Is there a specific format to submit our entry in? Or should it be cheap and creative too?

  24. #74
    Rustbelt Rider mkeller234's Avatar
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    Well, creative is always good. Steppinthefunk had an amazing presentation last year with the photos and story all aranged together. Of course, the judges will be more concerned about the actual bicycle, so I wouldn't worry too much about how the presentation looks. Something like what steppinthefunk did was a nice touch but ultimately it was his bike that won the judges over.

    You can send individual pictures in any format to me with your story as a text file. I'm thinking PDF files might be ok too but I don't know if I can upload those to something like picasa.
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  25. #75
    working on progress treebound's Avatar
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    Sneak peek of a potential project choice, currently under wraps (snow wraps)

    I won't say which one however

    uh, I'd better scan back and check when the deadline is, this might take awhile ....

    (night time shot without a flash and using a snow shovel as a pseudo-tripod)
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