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My PX-10 has a 5 digit Serial Number

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My PX-10 has a 5 digit Serial Number

Old 02-08-10, 07:26 PM
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My PX-10 has a 5 digit Serial Number

My ~1972 Peugeot PX-10 has a 5 digit serial number - 99488. The number is stamped directly on the bottom bracket, not on a plate attached to the bottom bracket. The bottom bracket has a noticeable seam in it.

Aren't Peugeots of this era supposed to have at least a 6 digit s/n?

The bike is fairly original and in very good condition. I had to make changes to the drivetrain to accomodate my 69 year old knees. I especially regretted having to remove the Stronglight 93 crank. See photo.
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Old 02-08-10, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by kehomer
Aren't Peugeots of this era supposed to have at least a 6 digit s/n?.
Depends whos website you read. Does you BB have to holes where a serial plate normaly would be? Here's a quote from my website www.cyclespeugeot.com with the relevant info in bold:

Prior to 1979 it is NOT possible to identify a Peugeots year of production from its serial number. Regardless of
what you've read and where you've read it it simply isn't possible!!! The number of digits may indicate the decade
of production with 5 digits representing a 50's model, 6 for a 60's model and 7 for a 70's model. Peugeot
changed decal schemes very frequently. Changes in decals, along with component changes, make it easy to
narrow down a models year of production to within 2 or 3 years without a serial number. For bike produced prior
to 1979 decal schemes and component date codes are the preferred methods of narrowing down a production
year
.
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Old 02-08-10, 07:47 PM
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I don't even try to make sense of Peugeot serial numbers. I don't see any point in it, especially when you know the bike is a '72.

I don't understand why you had to give up the Stronglight 93.
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Old 02-08-10, 07:47 PM
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hi-jack in progress: https://cyclespeugeot.com/PX10ID.html
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Old 02-08-10, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
I don't even try to make sense of Peugeot serial numbers. I don't see any point in it, especially when you know the bike is a '72.

I don't understand why you had to give up the Stronglight 93.
It looks like he has a 110BCD double with a 34t freewheel.
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Old 02-08-10, 07:56 PM
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One of my 93s is a 48X40.
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Old 02-08-10, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Grand Bois
One of my 93s is a 48X40.
Good point!!
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Old 02-08-10, 08:15 PM
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I live in North Georgia where it is very hilly. Removed the Stronglight (and retained it) and added a Sugino 48/34 crank. That and the 34 tooth freewheel allow me to navigate the local hills.

Just purchased the bike a few months ago. Guessing that it is a 1972 model.
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Old 02-09-10, 06:58 AM
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Mine is also early 70's and also has a 5 digit serial number (73725) stamped into the shell, no trace of a separate number plate riveted on.
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Old 02-09-10, 01:24 PM
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Thanks for this...

OK, now this is something I can get into. I, too, have a Peugeot that was reported to me to be a 1963 model with a six digit serial number stamped into the underside of the bottom bracket. There is a seam and two holes about the correct distance apart to accommodate the aluminum plate used during most of the seventies to record the serial number on.

All that said, I am and always have been a bit skeptical about the correct vintage of my PX10, thinking that is was more likely of seventies origin. This thread has shed considerable light on the subject. Now, I feel better about questioning the vintage of my bicycle. And, thank the good lord that it is not a 1963 model. There is no way I can afford the correct derailleurs for that vintage. But I have all that I need to complete an early seventies PX10.

Serial number on my PX10 and holes for alloy serial# plate
PeugeotPR10_1976_SerialNumber.jpg

Alloy serial number plate from a mid seventies Peugeot PR10
PX10_Paint_BB_SerialNumber_1.jpg
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Old 02-09-10, 01:33 PM
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As you know, we have "is this a PX-10?" threads and "what's the date of my PX-10?" threads every week on this forum, so I don't know where you'll find this, but: a couple months ago someone posted a photo of a PX-10 and someone else, perhaps it was miamijim, pointed out the angle of the dropouts; they were somewhat steeper on the early-to-mid 60's model, somewhat more horizontal on the later one. Or do I have that backwards? Anyway, if it's a reliable criterion, that may give you something to go on.

My serial number looks different, though:


Last edited by rhm; 02-09-10 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 02-09-10, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa
OK, now this is something I can get into. I, too, have a Peugeot that was reported to me to be a 1963 model with a six digit serial number stamped into the underside of the bottom bracket. There is a seam and two holes about the correct distance apart to accommodate the aluminum plate used during most of the seventies to record the serial number on.

All that said, I am and always have been a bit skeptical about the correct vintage of my PX10, thinking that is was more likely of seventies origin. This thread has shed considerable light on the subject. Now, I feel better about questioning the vintage of my bicycle. And, thank the good lord that it is not a 1963 model. There is no way I can afford the correct derailleurs for that vintage. But I have all that I need to complete an early seventies PX10.

Serial number on my PX10 and holes for alloy serial# plate
Attachment 136737

Alloy serial number plate from a mid seventies Peugeot PR10
Attachment 136738
Really? Jim made it abundantly clear that serial numbers are not a reliable way to determine PX10 age prior to 1979, yet you posted pictures of serial numbers on bikes made prior to 1979 and apparently are using them to determine the age of your frame.
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Old 02-09-10, 04:17 PM
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OK.....a few pointers:

1979 through at least the early 90's: Format consisting of a letter followed by 3 numbers, a space and then a sequence of numbers. Like this A123 4567. The letter can be anything, I have no idea of letters siginificance but someone suggested it may refer to specific factory. I dont know. The first numerical digit is the year the frame was produced while digits 2 and 3 refer to the month. Note that I said 'year frame was produced' not 'model year'. If a bike has this format its a 1979 or newer model. If it does NOT have this format its a 1978 or older model

Example 1: B902 34567 would be 1979 (9) with a production month of Febuary (02). The remainder, 34567 is more than likely a sequential build number. A February of 1979 build would be a 1979 model.

Example 2: H211 345678 would be 1982 (2) with a production month of November (11). The remainder, 345678 is more than likely a sequential build number. A November of 1982 build would be a 1983 model. November is too late in the year for it to be a 1982 model.


1978 and older: This is a correlation between the number of digits and the decade as well as a correlation between the first digit and the year of production. Note that onve again I said year of production and NOT model year. 5 digits = 50's, 6 digits = 60's, 7 digits = 70's. Remember, its a correlation, NOT fact. In my opinion the first digit is year of production as noted in my above 1979 and newer Example #2.

The reason I say correlation is because many, many owners report and verify that their serial numbers correlate to the model year. The problem is that many owners report their serial numbers do NOT correlate. For every 20 with correlating number there may only be 1 that doesnt but thats enough to dispell the serial number = model year as fact. Sorry, but there's just too many verifiable bikes out there with number that do NOT correlate to the model year.

Here are a few things I've been working on:

1: There are bike with seamed BB's and seamless BB's. I was thinking that the seamed BB's were too thick for riviting thus they got stamped numbers. Recently a forum member posted pics of his seamed BB with a rivited serial number plate. I'm not sure on this theory.

2. There are bikes with rivit holes, no serial number plate and stamped serial numbers. My thought is that the rivited plates were removed at the factory for whatever reason and replaced with hand stamped numbers. Perhaps old frames with old numbers were being used in subsequent years, I dont know. Some hand stamped numbers look like they were done as a block of numbers, some look like each digit was individualy stamped.

In summary, for 1978 and older bikes loosely take the serial number into consideration, loosely. And then look at the bike as whole to determine its approximate year. In reality the exact year doesnt matter, all bikes with similar decals were essentialy the same.
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Old 02-09-10, 04:28 PM
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Really? Jim made it abundantly clear that serial numbers are not a reliable way to determine PX10 age prior to 1979, yet you posted pictures of serial numbers on bikes made prior to 1979 and apparently are using them to determine the age of your frame.
My intent, with the pictures, was to offer a visual difference between the two numbering situations common to Peugeots. I offered this visual documentation to improve my attempt to communicate. I do not use these numbers or any other Peugeot numbers to nail down a specific vintage. That said, there is documentation on the web that does suggest the numbers can be used to help guide estimates.

In the quest to determine what vintage my PX10 was, I did a considerably amount of on-line research, which I coupled with the information passed on to me by the bicycle's previous owner. However, the sum of the research suggested that there is considerable controversy surrounding, not only how to date a PX10, but also on what actually defines a PX10. What I was happy to see in this present thread was justification.

I never felt comfortable that my bike was of 63 vintage. Physical features, such as rear drop design, suggested that my bike was not a 1963, but more likely an early to mid seventies model. Additionally, the bike came fitted with a Stronglight 93 crank set, all be it miserably mangled by a someone with a drill and visions of drillium. A 1963 would have been fitted with a different crank set. The headset and bottom bracket were both of what I thought to be later issue also. Little things like that, which conflicted with the information gleaned on the net, caused me to doubt the suggested vintage.

Now I have more concrete evidence that supports my belief that my bike is of seventies origin. Of course, if the little alloy serial number plate was there, that would be pretty good evidence that the bicycle was of seventies, not early sixties vintage. But the two little holes suggest that the alloy plate might have at one time been installed, making the bike of later than early sixties vintage.

As for the comment regarding Jim's attempt to add clarity to the situation. I did review the information he discusses and that is one of the things that offered confusion to an already confusing and controversial subject. I appreciate Jim's opinion and thank him for the input.

So, to sum up. I was not using the pictures of serial numbers to date my bicycles. Though Jim's information might be bang on the buck, I have not had the opportunity to verify his information, therefore his comments are mixed in with all of the other information I have managed to collect regarding the PX10. And that information, as I stated earlier seems to be somewhat contradictory or at the very least, confusing, from time to time.

All that said, I now see my bicycle as one from the seventies, not from the early sixties. However, it did have a smattering of the candy blue color with yellow lug work that suggested an earlier vintage. Of course, it is possible that the PX10 from the early seventies did come is the blue with yellow Nervex Pro lugs. I really don't know for sure but finding out is half the fun.
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Old 02-09-10, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa
there is documentation on the web that does suggest the numbers can be used to help guide estimates.

there is considerable controversy surrounding, on what actually defines a PX10. What I was happy to see in this present thread was justification.
Some of that web documentation needs to be deleted or updated.

In regards to defining a PX10, I'm working on it:

https://cyclespeugeot.com/PX10.html
https://cyclespeugeot.com/PX10ID.html
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Old 02-09-10, 05:46 PM
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I just finished reading this thread when a great idea struck me. Let's find a Frenchman that built Peugeots back in the 60s and 70s, interview him and get some answers to the serial number riddle. There must be dozens if not hundreds of former employees or managers who worked at Peugeot who possess answers to several topics discussed on this forum. There is at least one member of C&V who speaks French and has relatives in France. If it takes some money to prime the information pump then so be it. I'm prepared to open my wallet.
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Old 02-09-10, 07:30 PM
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Thanks to everyone for their contributions. I have learned from the thread and enjoyed it. There are some very knowlegeable members here.

As an aside, I learned that a company in Canada was contracted by Peugeot to manufacture and/or assemble and sell PX10s and other bike models in the 70s and 80s. I can't recall the name of the company (incipient Alzheimers). They are still in business but no longer contracted by Peugeot. I had thought that my 5 s/n bike maybe is Canadian. After reading this thread, I discount the Canada theory.
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Old 02-09-10, 08:14 PM
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Pro Cycle began producing Peugeot bicycles in 1978 and abandoned that in 2001... the quality of the Canadian made bikes tends to be consistently good and they also distributed Velo Sport bicycles which can also be of very good quality.

Pro Cycle is a huge company that bought CCM's bicycle division (1983) and now owns Rocky Mountain Bicycle and Miele... they manufacture / distribute inexpensive bikes for a lot of big box stores while making some of the best bikes on earth (Rocky Mountain) although they are all (with few exceptions) produced offshore.
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Old 02-12-10, 12:51 AM
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Originally Posted by kehomer
My ~1972 Peugeot PX-10 has a 5 digit serial number - 99488. The number is stamped directly on the bottom bracket, not on a plate attached to the bottom bracket. The bottom bracket has a noticeable seam in it.

Aren't Peugeots of this era supposed to have at least a 6 digit s/n?

The bike is fairly original and in very good condition. I had to make changes to the drivetrain to accomodate my 69 year old knees. I especially regretted having to remove the Stronglight 93 crank. See photo.

I too have a ~1972 PX10 with a 5 digit serial # stamped directly into the BB shell, except mine starts with a "7" not a 9. From memory, it is something like 72775 or thereabouts. There was a post about this a few years ago that I contributed to.

Last edited by Antipodes; 02-12-10 at 12:54 AM.
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