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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/623699-love-english-3-speeds.html)

Maddox 05-12-10 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 10797370)
Maddox - That is a beautiful bike... that needs it's chainguard.

It looked nekkid.

I agree that it doesn't look fully dressed.

Since I live in a warm climate I usually ride in shorts. Since that's the case I rarely ever have a reason to snag - but you've convinced me. The bike does need to be fully dressed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by southpawboston (Post 10801205)
i can't stand the stock "hockey stick" chainguards that raleigh supplied with many of their 3-speeds. my pants have caught on them, my shoes have caught on them, and they haven't protected me from getting chain grease on my pants... the french alloy chainguards seem a little bit better, with less sharp edges and better coverage. but full chaincases seem best.

I searched for months for a fully-encased Roadster or one of the other English 3-speed makers (Hercules, Dunelt, Rudge, etc). I couldn't find one in my neck of the USA - only younger bikes from after Raleigh's prime on much of the West Coast.

Fir 05-18-10 02:21 PM

What a great thread; some beauty bikes. Dunno if this is the best place to ask this, but I'm trying to make the brakes on my Twenty work as 'stopping devices.' The old pads look original which would be 1970 and in the wet on a downhill they merely attenuate the rate of acceleration. So the local bike shop sold me some 'Jagwire' shoes and said to use tapered washers if needed. Well, there is quite a difference as the old Weinmann pads were quite tapered to fit the slant of the rims and the new ones have no taper, so they will need a fair bit of tweaking. Is there a better way to deal with this? I really want brakes that grab.

noglider 05-18-10 02:59 PM

I'm going to try Kool Stop pads on my Twenty and also on my 26"-wheel three-speed. Both have steel rims. The brakes on the Hercules (the bike with 26" wheels) are fine in the dry but merely ornamental in the rain. On the Twenty, they're crappy in the dry and useless in the rain. I almost took the Twenty out with a trailer and a large amount of cargo. Then I realized the brakes wouldn't be able to stop me on the steep hills around here, so I took the Hercules.

Maddox, are you in Arizona?

brianinc-ville 05-18-10 04:32 PM

+1 on Kool Stop Continental Salmon pads. They should improve your braking to excellent-when-dry and not-scary-when-wet. Question: has anyone figured out how to put Kool Stop blocks in the original Raleigh holders?

And if you don't want to look around for tapered washers, you can just snip an ordinary washer in half and use it as a shim. Takes a little fiddling, but it's not too difficult to get the toe-in right.

With old Raleighs (particularly the rod-brake ones), I find that leverage is key -- on most bikes I grab the brake levers right in the middle, but with the Raleighs I grab them all the way at the end. It does make a difference.

Sixty Fiver 05-18-10 05:11 PM

The best way to make a Twenty stop better is to change the front wheel to an alloy one and fit Kool Stop brake pads... the rear braking will still be poor with the addition of an alloy wheel because the long reach brakes are anemic and flexy.

If you have a 451 equipped model you will find that it came with steel calipers which are much better than the long reach alloy calipers fitted to export models.

My Twenty stops on a dime and gives back change... it has an alloy BMX brake up front (Rush) with Kool Stop pads and no rear brake because it is a fixed gear... and the stopping power is better with no rear brake. :)

You can also fit drop bolts to a Twenty so you can use better quality calipers... there are a number of ways to do this and an ingenious method for the front is to insert a steel tube into the bottom of the fork and up the steerer and fix that in place with a bolt put through where the brake used to be. After that you will drill another hole in that tube after you measure your new brake and fit it.

noglider 05-18-10 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brianinc-ville (Post 10831202)
+1 on Kool Stop Continental Salmon pads. They should improve your braking to excellent-when-dry and not-scary-when-wet. Question: has anyone figured out how to put Kool Stop blocks in the original Raleigh holders?

Cut them to fit? :rolleyes:

Fir 05-18-10 08:48 PM

Thanks so much guys for the quick response. I used to work on Renaults and take enormous liberties with them, but now that I'm afflicted with "Raleigh Bug" I'm leaning toward keeping stock where practicable. Is this nostalgia? I was thinking the other day that seeing little details that you knew so many years ago, perhaps makes chemical changes in the brain... At any rate, I'd like to see how it stops with the best of pads on the old chrome rims. I will survey the local LBSs to see who will provide Continental "Kool Stops" with minimum interrogation. On closer reading I see your solutions don't make any permanent alterations to the bike, 65er. Interesting.

I already figured I would make thick washers from scrap aluminum and taper them on the belt sander. LBS didn't have anything suitable in their bin. Another LBS didn't want to offer me stickier pads for fear of bending the calipers. Hmm, I'd rather stop the bike than worry about caliper arms.

Fir 05-18-10 08:54 PM

I also have an old Loop Frame bike with missing headbadge. It has Dunlop rims and Perry components. Where is a good place to inquire about that? I'd love to learn what brand and vintage it might be.

David Newton 05-18-10 09:14 PM

Pictures, of course.

Fir 05-18-10 09:57 PM

This isnt a 3 speed, technically...
 
http://saskatoontrail.org/linkableim...l-900-0001.JPG
[/IMG]http://saskatoontrail.org/linkableimages/IMG_3119.JPG[/IMG]
[/IMG]http://saskatoontrail.org/linkableimages/IMG_3074.JPG[/IMG]

I suppose you could call it an English "3-spd" because it has: Accellerating, Coasting, and Decellerating. I was planning to throw reliable rubber under it and at least try it for a while, drive it to the Farmer's market with minni-me on the back, and suchlike. Maybe put an IGH into the rear wheel? But then... after pulling the tyres off, discovered some little surprises, so even changing the tyres turned into a little project :-)

Fir 05-18-10 10:10 PM

Strange only the one image comes through in my browser. Maybe I was supposed to but commas between the URLs? You can also paste the other 2 URLs into another tab of course.http://saskatoontrail.org/linkableimages/IMG_3111.JPG;http://saskatoontrail.org/linkableimages/IMG_3051.JPG

Fir 05-19-10 09:37 AM

Kool Konfusion
 
So... One LBS says that 'Kool Stop' is the maker of the rubber and different outfits put that rubber in their shoes. He knows continental tyres but never heard of Continental brake shoes. He can special-order Shimano type ones for $30 in red or pink. Another LBS has yellow Kool Stops with no particular brand name for $10 pr. through Norco.

Ah, googled it. [koolstop.com/brakes/index.php] I see. Continental means the style of them? Seems to me the biggest shoes that will fit in there will stop us the best? Maybe I need to mail-order these someplace. Three of you recommend them, so they must be worth some effort.

Sixty Fiver 05-19-10 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fir (Post 10832796)
http://saskatoontrail.org/linkableim...l-900-0001.JPG[/IMG]
[/IMG]http://saskatoontrail.org/linkableimages/IMG_3074.JPG[/IMG]

I suppose you could call it an English "3-spd" because it has: Accellerating, Coasting, and Decellerating.

That is a Perry Speed Attenuator or an English coaster brake which has a roller clutch instead of the typical threaded driver found on most coaster brakes and they have far less stopping power than most coaster brakes.

Servicing them differs from other coaster hubs as well as the bearing adjustment is done my loosening the axle nuts and turning the axle from the drive side into the non drive side cone. The square end on the non drive side is for a Raleigh #37 tool and I have a number of Perry tools which are the same thing. They have a square socket, axle wrench, and lock ring tool as the driver is threaded and not splined.

I have one fitted to my 1951 CCM and but supplement that with a front brake as it really isn't a brake and this bike goes too fast to not be able to stop well.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...thnewfork1.jpg

They do shine up beautifully as the plating is very well done and are very smooth running hubs... periodic topping up with a little oil is all they need as they do not us grease.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...hnewwheel1.jpg

And now we bring you back to our regularly scheduled program... :)

gna 05-19-10 11:00 AM

2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Fir (Post 10834606)
So... One LBS says that 'Kool Stop' is the maker of the rubber and different outfits put that rubber in their shoes. He knows continental tyres but never heard of Continental brake shoes. He can special-order Shimano type ones for $30 in red or pink. Another LBS has yellow Kool Stops with no particular brand name for $10 pr. through Norco.

Ah, googled it. [koolstop.com/brakes/index.php] I see. Continental means the style of them? Seems to me the biggest shoes that will fit in there will stop us the best? Maybe I need to mail-order these someplace. Three of you recommend them, so they must be worth some effort.

Continental is the style, yes. They come in salmon or gray. They replace the brake pads on newer 3 -speeds. Older bikes that have replacable pads in a holder can get a different Kool Stop that slides in.

The salmon stop better, but may look a little funny (unless you have an orange Norman ;)):

Attachment 151569
Attachment 151570

rhm 05-19-10 11:30 AM

:lol:

Maddox 05-19-10 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 10830748)
Maddox, are you in Arizona?

I am - I probably shouldn't have said "West Coast" as I'm approximately 5 hours away from the coast, but I figured it was close enough.

CharmCityCycle 05-19-10 02:46 PM

This thread is incredibly timely for me. I just bought a Raleigh Super Course off of fleebay. Not sure I got a screaming deal or anything, given that it was a late 70s model, which I take it are somewhat less desirable than the earlier ones with the more relaxed geometry. Anyway, it was still cheap enough that it will serve as my beater, which for me, means that it will be what I ride when I am going to have to lock up my bike outside. I was thinking I would like to convert it to a 3 speed, and then I saw this thread...Obviously it can be done, and we have seen some beautiful Super Courses which have been turned into very cool faux Clubmans. But, I am a complete newbie, and I need to keep this cheap. If I spend too much more on this bike my wife wont allow me to leave it locked up outside, and then I will have destroyed its very raison d'etre. And frankly, having spent some serious bucks pimping out my main ride (which is a Trek 620, and an ongoing project), I can't afford to go over one hundred, or maybe, maybe two.

So...if someone could walk me through what I would need to buy/do, maybe I can make an educated decision. A S.A. AW 3 goes for what, 25 to 50 on ebay depending on condition. I'm sure some of you could come up with a nice one for a lot less, but the bike market around me is incredibly inflated. I'd like to go with a bar-end, but I only see the S.A. one from SOMA which is 40+ bucks, so I'd probably have to settle for the old fashioned trigger thingy. I'm trying to do more work myself these days, but I don't think I'm up to wheel building yet, so I would probably need to pay someone to lace the wheel to the hub for me. What else do I need to buy? I take it new cables, a new front chain ring, and chain, but what should I be looking for specifically? And then the two big technical questions: How would you go about dealing with the dropout spacing issues? I think that arose earlier in the thread. I don't have the Super Course in front of me yet to measure, but I'm guessing it's rear end doesn't match up with the Sturmey. Cold setting sounds scary. What does swapping out the axle entail? Secondly, what would be the simplest way to route the cables?

Thanks in advance for helping a total beginner. Cheers.

noglider 05-19-10 03:21 PM

Lacing a wheel is less complicated than many needlepoint projects. You have 40 spokes at most and probably fewer.

There are a few good articles on the web for lacing and building wheels. If you can route a cable, you can build a wheel. It just takes a few hours the first time.

Cold setting isn't that hard, either.

I'd love to see a picture of your Super Course. I test rode a 1979 or 1980 model. It was spritely and fun.

I would route the brake cable like this, posted early in this thread.

http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment...5&d=1257290636

Fir 05-19-10 04:26 PM

A guy really should have at least one nice CCM
 
That's a beauty CCM, 65er. Looks like a cat arched to pounce, or a sprinter in blocks. Is there a geneology of CCMs someplace? I saw an Imperial with SA hub and hemmed too long and it sold... Now I'm looking for another, as I've realized a guy really should have at least one nice CCM. Looks like aluminum rims? Did you lace the wheels? Hub is from different bike? Would it have had heavier tyres stock? The Perry hub sure doesnt have the rust issues that the Dunlop rims do. [BTW, do you know what the "WO" means on the rim stamping: "28x1-3/4 WO"

Thanks for the Perry tips. Do you have Perry tool for sale?

Fir 05-19-10 04:39 PM

Bus Stop necessary
 
In 1989 or so I bought some red brake pads for my Mtn bike. They were amazing. They actually saved a baby one time, I'm sure. The front brake made the rear one totally redundant most times. One evening someone stole them, didn't tell me, and I very closely ended up under a bus at the moment I understood they were gone. They were called "Scott Superbrakes." I've never been able to find them since. Now it seems they were the precursor to the modern "Kool Stops"? According to Harris Cyclery Site. [http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/b...ml#continental - bottom of page] I hope so. Kool.

noglider 05-19-10 04:41 PM

Yes, Kool Stop carries on the Scott/Matthauser tradition. There is none better.

Fir 05-19-10 05:13 PM

Salmon it is then :-) Hope it goes with Raleigh green ;-)

{Would that be a different 'Scott' than what made my mtn bike?**

CharmCityCycle 05-19-10 06:15 PM

Thanks for the response. I do think I posted this in the wrong thread. I meant to put it in the hub addiction thread. But then again, I might need to start a new one to get some more responses. Seems like a popular time to be talking about hubs. Anyway, I'll be sure to post a pic when I get it up and running.

Sixty Fiver 05-20-10 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fir (Post 10836622)
That's a beauty CCM, 65er. Looks like a cat arched to pounce, or a sprinter in blocks. Is there a geneology of CCMs someplace? I saw an Imperial with SA hub and hemmed too long and it sold... Now I'm looking for another, as I've realized a guy really should have at least one nice CCM. Looks like aluminum rims? Did you lace the wheels? Hub is from different bike? Would it have had heavier tyres stock? The Perry hub sure doesnt have the rust issues that the Dunlop rims do. [BTW, do you know what the "WO" means on the rim stamping: "28x1-3/4 WO"

Thanks for the Perry tips. Do you have Perry tool for sale?

I laced up a 27 inch 40 hole Araya rim to the Perry hub and used an existing 27 inch whell for the front... it is also a 27 inch Araya that is laced to a Shimano high flange hub.

The bike came to me as a frame only and I built it up with spare parts for a cost of next to nothing unless you count elbow grease.

PM your addy to me and I will mail out a Perry hub tool to you.

ftwelder 05-20-10 03:05 AM

1 Attachment(s)
My '65 Rudge Whitworth De-Luxe.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/...a22dbc79_b.jpg


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