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  1. #3951
    accidental 3 speed geek yellowbarber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    Pictures no workie.
    cyclo pics - take two
    cyclo1.jpg
    cyclo2.jpg
    "Are you blood brothers with Meg because you ate her tampon out of the trash?"
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  2. #3952
    Senior Member
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    Been poking around the Colombian bike shops again, and I found another 28" Aluminium rim, a "GW" rim made in Medellin. This one is Westwood pattern only, good for either hub brakes or rod brakes. It is quite a bit heavier than the Ciclo Torres rim, weighing in at 750g, but it feels much sturdier. The extra material makes it cost more though, something like 20% more. It is also doesn't quite look as good; with the usual 28" tire, it looks like a small tire on a wide rim. This GW rim is 36 holes like the Ciclo Torres rim

    Interesting notes, a Formula track hub will lace 4X on a Ciclo Torres rim, using 308mm spokes, 306-307mm spoke are probably more appropriate, but some careful filing and rim tape will cover the difference nicely.

    As an aside, it is a pity that no one here has managed to make fat mountain bike tires for 635 rims, the mountain bike scene is getting pretty decent, and a home grown 29ner (30ier?) would be a good possibility.

    Has anyone fitted 700c Surlys with 28" roadster rims and tires? If they fit, this can be beneficial to those who tour places where 700c is not easily available, at least if they use disc brakes.

  3. #3953
    Senior Member Salubrious's Avatar
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    I just picked up a 72 Superbe. It seems to be all there, although seen a fair bit of abuse as one might expect. The rims are hopeless- that is if one wants them to look like the real originals. I'm not caring about that too much, I've had this idea of upgrading the bike (and no intentions at all of repainting!). IOW alloy rims to replace the severely rusted originals, perhaps an alloy seatpost and I have a beautiful set of alloy bars similar to the steel originals. But I really want to retain as much of the original character as I can, so this stuff, if I do it all, will be experimental with the original parts carefully saved...

    Right away I have issues though. Someone took the front hub apart incorrectly. The manual says to adjust the cones on the side away from the Dynohub stator... So somehow I have to correct the cones on the Dyno side which are now loose. Any tips? The Dyno works fine BTW.

    The rear hub does not seem to have 1st gear (stays in second). Gummed up? I plan to flush a bit of Kroil through it to see if it will come around. Is there a ready replacement for the brake pads? mine are perished.

    No photos yet- my one camera is getting a new shutter. The bike is in bits right now anyway. I'm excited to ride it though- always been a big fan of three speeds.

  4. #3954
    coprolite fietsbob's Avatar
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    had a Cyclo Cluster , with 3 cogs on my Puch/ J.C.Higgins I had back when Kennedy was still Breathing ..
    a derailleur/ IGH hybrid .. Ah Youth ..

  5. #3955
    Senior Member
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    Going shopping for new pedals for my newly-acquired Raleigh tomorrow...anything weird with the pedal threading, or are they just a standard 9/16" spindle?


  6. #3956
    Senior Member conradpdx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salubrious View Post
    I just picked up a 72 Superbe. It seems to be all there, although seen a fair bit of abuse as one might expect. The rims are hopeless- that is if one wants them to look like the real originals. I'm not caring about that too much, I've had this idea of upgrading the bike (and no intentions at all of repainting!). IOW alloy rims to replace the severely rusted originals, perhaps an alloy seatpost and I have a beautiful set of alloy bars similar to the steel originals. But I really want to retain as much of the original character as I can, so this stuff, if I do it all, will be experimental with the original parts carefully saved...

    Right away I have issues though. Someone took the front hub apart incorrectly. The manual says to adjust the cones on the side away from the Dynohub stator... So somehow I have to correct the cones on the Dyno side which are now loose. Any tips? The Dyno works fine BTW.

    The rear hub does not seem to have 1st gear (stays in second). Gummed up? I plan to flush a bit of Kroil through it to see if it will come around. Is there a ready replacement for the brake pads? mine are perished.

    No photos yet- my one camera is getting a new shutter. The bike is in bits right now anyway. I'm excited to ride it though- always been a big fan of three speeds.
    Rims probably aren't hopeless. Try a little water and scrub with Aluminium foil. Raleigh chrome was very thick and you'd be amazed at how much will come off with a little elbow grease.

    As far as the hub goes, go for a ride and try adjusting it. If it seems like there is no 1st odds are the line is way too tight or way too loose. Are you sure it's the hub? is the shift cable hung up? Check the fulcrum wheel as well, if loose it'll affect shifting, as would problems with the shifter make sure you lube it up too. Regardless, fill the hub with WD-40 of some other cleaning agent and ride it (if possible-if not let it sit for week and go out and spin the wheel a few times every day) for about 20 miles or so. Then drain it, and oil it properly and it'll most likely be ready to go.

    Upgrades are up to you, I still run on steel rims in rainy Portland and have adjusted my ride style to make up for the lack of stopping power. I haven't upgraded them because I'm pretty sure it will likely dramatically effect the ride quality and for me that is priority number one. Alloy doesn't flex like steel does, and thus shouldn't absorb the road as much as steel. And to top it all off my 40+ year old rims still run true and straight with little more than a light truing on the bike once or twice a year.

    Cones on S&A products are usually slightly loose. How loose are they? I've never had this problem with a dyno so I haven't looked into it. But I'm sure there is something online that address this issue.

    As for the the alloy handlebars and seat tube, not sure they'd make much of a difference. Again hit em with foil and water and you'll likely be amazed.

    Lastly congratz on the Superbe and welcome to the club.
    Does having had a vasectomy make me a "fixie"?

    1971 Raleigh Superbe, 1959 Murray Vanguard, 1974 Raleigh Super Course Mark II and a garage full of three speeds now in various states of dis/repair.

  7. #3957
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Conrad... I will have to keep an eye out for an old Superbe crawling through the rain.

    Upgrading to alloy rims and better brake pads is one of the best things you can do for these old bikes, you might see a guy bombing around on a green Raleigh 20 and most likely, that will be me.

    I have upgraded the rims on this bike and many other bikes here and up north.

  8. #3958
    Senior Member jonwvara's Avatar
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    I was using 27" wheels I'd built for the Sprite, but the dish is slight, as I recall--probably just a couple of mm. I'd used a similar setup on a Raleigh Sports with the 26" steel rims, and the amount of redish required was also very slight.
    I like the gear ratios a lot. Six regular speeds--77.2 67.1, 57.9, 49.6, 43.4, and 37.2. That's not a very high top gear, but c'mon, we're talking about a 38-lb. bike with upright handlebars. If you wanted, you could get the same even spacing but much higher gearing with an 18/21 combo in back.
    I also have a second chainring in front. You can't do that with a Raleigh Sports-type crankset, as far as I know, but my Sprite had the cottered steel Nervar crankset that was also used on the Record and Grand Prix, which accepts a second chainring if you use longer bolts and spacers. That ring is a 36, which I think is as small as you can go on that BCD. (Not sure what it is--116 or some odd thing?) Anyway, I only use the small ring on the big cog, and it gives me a 33.4 in second on the AW, and an ultra-low 25.0 in first.
    According to Raleigh, you're not supposed to use an input ratio of less than 2/1 with an AW (a 48 chainring shouldn't use a cog smaller than 24, for example). The issue is that too much torque will bust something in the workings of the AW. I'm obviously way below 2/1, but Mark Stonich at Bikesmith designs told me that very low input ratios don't cause problems as long as you don't used them with in the high gear on the hub. I only use mine in 1 and 2, and have had no problems so far.
    I use the small chainring infrequently--just to get up a few very long steep climbs around here--so I've never bothered with a front derailleur--I just get off and shift by hand. That will also allow me to add a Sprite chainguard, if I can ever find one.
    Changing to a longer axle isn't really that hard. It was my only foray into the mysterious inner workings of a hub gear. I got the longer axle from Harris--not sure if they still have them.
    I don't know a thing about brazing together a home-brewed 3-cog rear. I once owned a manufactured Cyclo unit--they're scarce, and seem to come only in tooth counts that don't strike me as especially useful--but getting hold of one might be the best guide to cooking up something similar.
    JV


    Quote Originally Posted by Super.bee View Post
    Wow, thanks, I never thought of that. Did you redish the wheel? I wonder if there's any pattern to which AW-equipped bikes had longer axles. I guess that's the reason for the various indicator rods. By the way that sounds like pretty great gearing.



    Best done by a framebuilder? Are we just talking brazing here, no mechanical interlocking of the cogs?
    www.redclovercomponents.com

    "Progress might have been all right once, but it has gone on too long."
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  9. #3959
    Senior Member Salubrious's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conradpdx View Post
    Rims probably aren't hopeless. Try a little water and scrub with Aluminium foil. Raleigh chrome was very thick and you'd be amazed at how much will come off with a little elbow grease.
    Thanks for the tip!
    As far as the hub goes, go for a ride and try adjusting it. If it seems like there is no 1st odds are the line is way too tight or way too loose. Are you sure it's the hub? is the shift cable hung up? Check the fulcrum wheel as well, if loose it'll affect shifting, as would problems with the shifter make sure you lube it up too.
    The shifter feels like it has issues of its own, nothing that a bit of oil won't solve. But the cable was not tight in low. Curiously, on the stand its obvious that 1st is indeed there, so the shift is now under suspicion.
    Upgrades are up to you, I still run on steel rims in rainy Portland and have adjusted my ride style to make up for the lack of stopping power. I haven't upgraded them because I'm pretty sure it will likely dramatically effect the ride quality and for me that is priority number one. Alloy doesn't flex like steel does, and thus shouldn't absorb the road as much as steel. And to top it all off my 40+ year old rims still run true and straight with little more than a light truing on the bike once or twice a year.
    I'm just looking to loose a little weight if I can, and some off the bike too But if it messes with the initial character of the machine I'm not interested. So right now its mostly restoration, once there then I can study the alternatives.
    Cones on S&A products are usually slightly loose. How loose are they? I've never had this problem with a dyno so I haven't looked into it. But I'm sure there is something online that address this issue.
    when I took the wheel off the bike the cones were way too tight! But this is because the nut on the Dyno side is loose and allows the cone to rotate with the axle. The guy I got this from said he rode it recently; I have to imagine the ride was dreadful with all the bugs I've found. I found a hollow spacer on the Dyno side. If I had to guess I would say it does not belong there- it was interfering with the ability to lock the nut against the cone. So right now my plan is to install a washer in its stead so I can set the Dyno side cone and be done with it. I think that spacer was making removal of the wheel from the fork harder than it should have been too. That fork is pretty stiff!

    Is there a source for keys for the fork lock?

    Lastly congratz on the Superbe and welcome to the club.
    Thanks!

  10. #3960
    Senior Member conradpdx's Avatar
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    I found a local old school locksmith that had access to (non Raleigh) blanks for my Superbe. Cost me $20 or $25 for a master and a spare. Every now and then you can find Raleigh blanks on Ebay (though don't bid till I get mine...lol). The locksmith did say that his key wholesaler (whom he had to order the blanks from) said he only had a few left.

    Gotta go to an old timer locksmith to even find the info. I believe the key catalog we were looking at when we found it was from about 2002 or so, which leads me to believe it's when that blank was probably last made.

    And 65'r feel free to stop me should you see me, the thing that stands out the most on my ride is the new Brooks B17 in honey that I won in the Tweed ride last year for best bike (I still think it was a sympathy vote/win cause the B72 that came with the bike tore out about a month before the ride and I was using a newer Schwinn Cruiser seat till I saved enough for a replacement). Just recently got another old B72 and trying to decide if I should swap it out...Not sure I kinda like the honey color better than the black, but the 72 is so much more comfortable). I also got a bee bell, an old school rectangular mirror, and a vintage-ish frame lock on the back or the seat stays on it as well. But I'll keep an eye out for a 20...not like there are many of them around town either.

    Though I'm sure I'll be at the Tweed again this year, and I hope to do an Adventure League ride or two as well.
    Does having had a vasectomy make me a "fixie"?

    1971 Raleigh Superbe, 1959 Murray Vanguard, 1974 Raleigh Super Course Mark II and a garage full of three speeds now in various states of dis/repair.

  11. #3961
    Senior Member adventurepdx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by conradpdx View Post
    And 65'r feel free to stop me should you see me, the thing that stands out the most on my ride is the new Brooks B17 in honey that I won in the Tweed ride last year for best bike (I still think it was a sympathy vote/win cause the B72 that came with the bike tore out about a month before the ride and I was using a newer Schwinn Cruiser seat till I saved enough for a replacement).
    Yeah, you are right on the sympathy vote thing. But keep that under your hat, as we don't want a bunch of people taking off their perfectly good Brooks saddles and replacing it with some pos they found in the free box at Citybikes right before the ride so they have a better shot of winning this year.

    Quote Originally Posted by conradpdx View Post
    Though I'm sure I'll be at the Tweed again this year, and I hope to do an Adventure League ride or two as well.
    Hope to see you on either!
    http://urbanadventureleague.blogspot.com/ http://societyofthreespeeds.wordpress.com/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/urbanadventureleaguepdx/

  12. #3962
    Senior Member conradpdx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adventurepdx View Post
    Yeah, you are right on the sympathy vote thing. But keep that under your hat, as we don't want a bunch of people taking off their perfectly good Brooks saddles and replacing it with some pos they found in the free box at Citybikes right before the ride so they have a better shot of winning this year.




    Hope to see you on either!
    I went to that ride just to gawk at other 3 speeds and old bikes (and as an excuse to check out the "new" Velocult)...I didn't even know when I went that there was prizes.

    Though honestly that ride is what made me consider not upgrading my rims, seeing that a couple Tourists with rod brakes could make the journey in the pouring rain at the end of the ride down the Sandy Ridge in Alameda make me think it wasn't necessary and I haven't looked back.

    Though now that I've got the dyno set and all the glitz that goes with the Superbe, I'm thinking of making a winter bike too. IGH/Drum seems to be the way to go. Perhaps something I can better haul a trailer with - I don't know why but I've got a fever to do about 20 mile round trips to Costco on a bike with a full load.

    Some want to cross the country, some want to go real fast, some want miles of single track, I just want to go to Costco. (gawd, I'm getting old).
    Does having had a vasectomy make me a "fixie"?

    1971 Raleigh Superbe, 1959 Murray Vanguard, 1974 Raleigh Super Course Mark II and a garage full of three speeds now in various states of dis/repair.

  13. #3963
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    One resolution down as a bicycle and parts have already taken up residence in the dining room. My next to the last purchase was a red 1956 Sports and I'll confess to not being as enamored with it as I had hoped. The red paint fought my polishing efforts and I became discouraged with the lack of progress.

    That was until yesterday when I visited the local auto parts store for some Sratch X and I am beyond thrilled with the results. The fenders have spots worn down to the black undercoating, but the red seems to be almost translucent with gold metallic sparkles contained in it. The color has depth. The tail is once more white. Your reminders of "It's only original once." played in my head and any thoughts of repainting evaporated. I think she'll continue to grow on me after the cream tires and fork light grace her.

    Any suggestions for a "best" wax for red paint? The red seems to be a different animal.

    STS

  14. #3964
    Get off my lawn! Velognome's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
    had a Cyclo Cluster , with 3 cogs on my Puch/ J.C.Higgins I had back when Kennedy was still Breathing ..
    a derailleur/ IGH hybrid .. Ah Youth ..
    And its folly
    P6120497.jpg
    On roadways this Spring

    Any suggestions for a "best" wax for red paint? The red seems to be a different animal.
    Kiwi Cordovan will hide some scratches on the red and give it a soft shine

  15. #3965
    Senior Member IthaDan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrecoi View Post
    Pictures with tape measure please.
    Were the pictures I posted helpful to you? Are there any other dimensions you need?

    Shimano : Click :: Campy :: Snap :: SRAM : Bang

  16. #3966
    Senior Member ascherer's Avatar
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    1966 Raleigh Sports rehab

    7 months later:
    8361466477_470301ccc7_m.jpg

    I posted back in July that I'd gotten this bike but have only now gotten to taking a decent set of "after" pictures. I found it in a typically neglected state - gumwalls melted and fused to the wheels, grimy, badly dried and torn B17...but it was mechanically sound and the right size. My goal was to get it rideable quickly and to pretty it up while keeping its original lines and dignified stance.

    On inspection I found nothing had to be replaced other than the pedals, brake blocks and tires so I scraped the muck off rims and cleaned them up with Evapo-Rust baths and copper wool. I serviced the front hub and just oiled the rear - I'll open that sometime this winter for fun and curiosity. No major truing was needed, so new cloth rim strips and Panaracer Paselas finished the wheels.

    I got some cheap pedals at my LBS but the original pedal bodies were fine so I cleaned them up and used the new rubber blocks on the old bodies. They were a bit narrower than the originals so I used small washers to compensate and they are a great visual fit.

    I haven't done the bottom bracket yet, but the chainwheel spun fine and had no play, so that's also been moved to the "I'm bored" winter activity list. I got a new chain, but the old one seemed sound so I use Evapo-Rust on it and it came out great. I did clean up the headset, even though it really wasn't bad.

    Put salmon Kool-stops on the brakes, which had good cables and then lots and lots of chrome polishing using copper wool, brass brushes and frame cleaning/oiling/waxing.

    I treated the B17 with Proofide to get it supple, then I stitched the tear (it come up from the side almost halfway to the front-back centerline) and laced the sides in. It looked OK, but it was quite flexy on the bike and the surface is too rough from all the cracking so I have it in a bag until I feel like trying to tighten it. There's a bit of tearing at the nose rivet so I don't have much hope.

    I found a hardly used, brown B66 on eBay that's perfect:

    8361464825_fb14914aea_n.jpg

    That got me to the "ridable" state, and the rest was about the details. I snagged a replica pump and vintage "pleather" saddle bag at Old Roads in Cambridge, MA. A local shoemaker replaced the dried and torn straps that are sewn onto the flap.

    8362531074_90397afb10_n.jpg

    I happened across a NOS Sturmey Archer dynamo tail light at the LBS that I retrofitted with an LED and battery from a cheap book light from Walgreens, and I wrapped the kickstand with twine and shellacked it.

    8361462357_0c4ffb9cfa_n.jpg

    Next came shellacked cork grips, even though I have original ribbed bullet grips. I like the aesthetic and the feel. I finished off with a retro-style 3-led headlamp mounted to the Heron bracket.

    8361465195_47a27db122_n.jpg

    It's a pleasure to ride my Sports, whether I'm going a few blocks to the grocery or 20+ miles along the shore on a family outing. I loved this project - I've been working on bikes since 1973, and while I feel like I'm pretty skilled and knowledgeable, I want to thank everyone who has posted in this thread and especially those of you who are so generous with your time and sharing. I've learned a lot from you.

    8361467307_0b7c7a5338_n.jpg
    Last edited by ascherer; 01-08-13 at 03:32 PM. Reason: typo

  17. #3967
    Senior Member loubapache's Avatar
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    Nice!

  18. #3968
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Think that when I am back in pdx in about a month that I will have to bring my '54 Raleigh with me, driving gives me some bike options that flying did not allow.

    Will have to plan some adventures here via old 3 speeds...

  19. #3969
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    ascherer, nice work. If you buy or build yourself a cotter press, you will find the bottom bracket job to be pretty easy, and you'll be able to reuse your cotters.

    Velognome, I don't know about this bike. Is there a thread about it?

    Conradpdx, I've done Costco runs, but not 20 miles. My Costco is 4 miles from me. I towed my kiddie trailer. I carried as much stuff as people carry when they drive to Costco. In a sense, I did it as a proof-of-concept ride. I did it at night in the winter so I could tell others that they can do it in the day in the summer. My 3-speed has a gigantic rear cog, so that helps a lot, as it lowers all of my gears. The hills I had to climb aren't steep, but with the weight and the bike's weight and sluggishness, it wasn't exactly a breeze. But it was well worth doing, and I had a nice time.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
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    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  20. #3970
    Get off my lawn! Velognome's Avatar
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    [QUOTE]
    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post

    Velognome, I don't know about this bike. Is there a thread about it?
    Nope but there will be after the tires meet the pavement.

  21. #3971
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonwvara View Post
    The issue is that too much torque will bust something in the workings of the AW. I'm obviously way below 2/1, but Mark Stonich at Bikesmith designs told me that very low input ratios don't cause problems as long as you don't used them with in the high gear on the hub. I only use mine in 1 and 2, and have had no problems so far.
    I use the small chainring infrequently--just to get up a few very long steep climbs around here--so I've never bothered with a front derailleur--I just get off and shift by hand. That will also allow me to add a Sprite chainguard, if I can ever find one.
    JV
    I had worried about that and stuck with the orig chainring and 22 cog. That's great info, thanks.

    Is the chainguard you are looking for the one that has the inverted triangle - not just the hockey stick? What color are you seeking? There is one at the local co-op - attached to a Sprite 27 frame. Maybe they would part with the guard only.

  22. #3972
    Senior Member conradpdx's Avatar
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    Nice work ascherer... Though when I decided to take apart a hub for the first time, I bought a back up from the local bike co-op for around $10 to practice on. Not only do you then get to take one apart without putting your bike out of commision, but you then also get back up parts should you ever need them. And that $10.00 extra hub gets you alot more than individual parts if you include shipping costs.

    And I know I could use a trailer and the Superbe for the Costco runs, but there are some pretty good hills on the bike path that gets me there and back, and the dreaded east winds out of the Gorge this time of the year. Perhaps I'll try anyway, perhaps upgrade my 20 tooth for 24....Just gotta find a period correct trailer now I guess.
    Does having had a vasectomy make me a "fixie"?

    1971 Raleigh Superbe, 1959 Murray Vanguard, 1974 Raleigh Super Course Mark II and a garage full of three speeds now in various states of dis/repair.

  23. #3973
    Senior Member
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    recently bought this '54 sports, started another thread on it, but i can't resist posting another picture of this baby!

    it needs some tlc but still... it's perfect!

  24. #3974
    Senior Member ascherer's Avatar
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    Thanks, y'all.

    conradpdx, that's a great idea. I held one in my hands recently but didnt have a good reason to take it home, now I do. Won't be the first time I pulled one apart, but it will be the first in many decades!

    noglider, it's similarly been quite a while since I broke down a BB that had cottered cranks. I'm from the hammer-and-wood blocks school, but I never had to remove cotters that probably haven't moved in 47 years! I don't have a bench vise any more, so I'm looking at the DIYs described elsewhere. I'll probably try something with my clamp collection first.

  25. #3975
    Senior Member ascherer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ascherer View Post

    I found it in a typically neglected state - gumwalls melted and fused to the wheels, grimy, badly dried and torn B17...
    B72, duh.

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