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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/623699-love-english-3-speeds.html)

wahoonc 10-10-13 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 16149128)
I suspected that could well be the case. Don't guess there's any good reason to re-cover it with a new leather blank; probably be more expensive - maybe way more - than just finding a good used B-72 don't you think?

I usually replace them with a B-66... more springs.

Aaron :)

PalmettoUpstate 10-10-13 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 16112120)
What did you have to do to fix up the Rudge?

The Rudge had dead paint which required a careful rub out with Scratch X. I used Wolfgang paint color enhancer followed by two applications of Wolfgang paint sealant to get the color to pop. All of the old battle scars were left intact save straightening a fender stay. I used Fiebings horse saddle conditioner on the Brooks. The front hub was missing a bearing so I bought a bag of 100 grade 25 bearings from a local bearing dealer. All the small parts were hydro-sonically cleaned and then hand polished. I wiped the cable housings with a rag sprayed with carburetor cleaner and then rubbed paint sealer on them. All bearings were greased with Phil Woods finest. I filled the AS hub with Tri-Flow on my truing stand and spun & drained it until it ticked over nicely and the the fluid ran out clean. The chrome was lightly rusty so I hand polished it with chrome cleaner applied with aluminum foil.

A lot of work went into it, but I'm very satisfied with the outcome.[/QUOTE]

GB which one of the Fiebing's products did you use? I have a B-72 that's pretty "iffy" and I've already used a good bit of Proofide and it still needs to drink.

PalmettoUpstate 10-10-13 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wahoonc (Post 16150752)
I usually replace them with a B-66... more springs.

Aaron :)

Yeah, I'm kinda partial to the B-66...

Gasbag 10-10-13 10:44 PM

I used Fiebings Aussie Leather Conditioner with Beeswax . I have a farm supply a couple miles from my home so the choice to use it was convenience. Also figured if it could take care of a horse saddle, a bike saddle could benefit as well.

What seems to work pretty well for me is to put a small glob around the nose & rear rails from the bottom and melt it with my heat gun on low temperature. Then I warm up the saddle enough to make it melt while it gets applied to the rest of the saddle, top & bottom. I follow this with a proper buffing on the topside.

I got lucky with my saddle in that it was not damaged and took the conditioner well.

The B72 is hands down the best saddle I've ever ridden, hardly notice it at all.

PalmettoUpstate 10-11-13 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 16112120)
What did you have to do to fix up the Rudge?

The Rudge had dead paint which required a careful rub out with Scratch X. I used Wolfgang paint color enhancer followed by two applications of Wolfgang paint sealant to get the color to pop. All of the old battle scars were left intact save straightening a fender stay. I used Fiebings horse saddle conditioner on the Brooks. The front hub was missing a bearing so I bought a bag of 100 grade 25 bearings from a local bearing dealer. All the small parts were hydro-sonically cleaned and then hand polished. I wiped the cable housings with a rag sprayed with carburetor cleaner and then rubbed paint sealer on them. All bearings were greased with Phil Woods finest. I filled the AS hub with Tri-Flow on my truing stand and spun & drained it until it ticked over nicely and the the fluid ran out clean. The chrome was lightly rusty so I hand polished it with chrome cleaner applied with aluminum foil.

A lot of work went into it, but I'm very satisfied with the outcome.[/QUOTE]Trying this again...

GB which one of the Fiebing's products did you use? I have a B-72 that's pretty "iffy" and I've already used a good bit of Proofide and it still needs to drink.

PalmettoUpstate 10-11-13 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 16151268)
I used Fiebings Aussie Leather Conditioner with Beeswax . I have a farm supply a couple miles from my home so the choice to use it was convenience. Also figured if it could take care of a horse saddle, a bike saddle could benefit as well.

What seems to work pretty well for me is to put a small glob around the nose & rear rails from the bottom and melt it with my heat gun on low temperature. Then I warm up the saddle enough to make it melt while it gets applied to the rest of the saddle, top & bottom. I follow this with a proper buffing on the topside.

I got lucky with my saddle in that it was not damaged and took the conditioner well.

The B72 is hands down the best saddle I've ever ridden, hardly notice it at all.

Thanks and please disregard that duplicate post from my only somewhat literate computer brain ...

I see that our local Tractor Supply has that product.

Agree about the B-72 being a great saddle; I have an original one on my 21" LTD-3 and it's pretty close to perfection in regard to comfort. I pulled it off my wife's '74 Sports when I got her a B-66S in Honey for that, her "promenade" bike...

Said B-66S is still pretty stiff but my wife loves it while my 27 yr. old daughter hates it and prefers to ride a nice Hercules we have here - it has the original "Rampar" vinyl saddle...

Indeed, she grouses that the Raleigh is "too stiff" in general and I agree that, with the padded saddle, cork grips, and more flexible rims, the Hercules is a "softer" ride...

Tires could be a factor too; the Sports has blackwall Kenda k-40's and the Herc has gumwall K-40's, both sets being fairly new [less than 2 yrs. old and indoor kept]

BTW, I'll post close-up pics of the "problem" B-72 later today; I have always wanted this thread to be the best "learning" thread for people wanting to get into [or back into] the incomparable lightweight 3-speeds.

PalmettoUpstate 10-11-13 09:17 AM

4 Attachment(s)
Those B-72 pics; the two real problem areas are the two tears at the rivets; one fore and one aft.

Wonder if it would make sense to go to a top-flite shoe repair business and have them sew some reinforcement strips of leather onto the underside of the saddle?

Anyone ever tried that?

Of course if that fails I could turn it into a Velo Object d' Art!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345491 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345492 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345493 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345494

PalmettoUpstate 10-11-13 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 10434457)
We went on our first ride yesterday afternoon and it was absolutely wonderful... riding usually relieves a lot of back pain as it does not engage my muscles as walking, sitting, and standing do but this was something else.

Perhaps it was the saddle...

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikep...rtslycette.JPG

Greetings 65'er!

Going wayyyy.... back to the beginning of this excellent thread you started... Post #3 ...

What kind of saddle is that in the pic? I can't quite make out what the embossing says.

Tx

noglider 10-11-13 11:08 AM

Palmetto Upstate, your description of the work you did is impressive. I don't think I'd ever have the patience to be that thorough on a bike, but it's inspiring. I might apply one of those tasks to a bike and another to another. So thank you.

Velognome 10-11-13 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 16152107)
Those B-72 pics; the two real problem areas are the two tears at the rivets; one fore and one aft.

Wonder if it would make sense to go to a top-flite shoe repair business and have them sew some reinforcement strips of leather onto the underside of the saddle?

Anyone ever tried that?

Of course if that fails I could turn it into a Velo Object d' Art!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345491 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345492 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345493 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345494

I would think, if the leather is degraded enough to tear, once patched it would tear soon elsewhere. Have rhm teach you the secrets of saddle leather replacement.

jon.612 10-11-13 09:09 PM

I've had a few old Brooks saddles with split leather at the rivets. I won't ride them - I have this vision of the leather failing and the seat post going right into the cavity that it's pointed toward. Really not worth it in my book.

Sixty Fiver 10-11-13 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 16152209)
Greetings 65'er!

Going wayyyy.... back to the beginning of this excellent thread you started... Post #3 ...

What kind of saddle is that in the pic? I can't quite make out what the embossing says.

Tx

Lycett Avenir, this is a really beautiful saddle that now lives on my Lenton while my Raleigh has a Wright's (another Brooks sub brand).

The company was founded in 1908 and taken over by Brooks in the 1920's and produced copies of Brooks saddles to a fairly high standard.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/2012reg4.JPG

wahoonc 10-12-13 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PalmettoUpstate (Post 16152107)
Those B-72 pics; the two real problem areas are the two tears at the rivets; one fore and one aft.

Wonder if it would make sense to go to a top-flite shoe repair business and have them sew some reinforcement strips of leather onto the underside of the saddle?

Anyone ever tried that?

Of course if that fails I could turn it into a Velo Object d' Art!

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345491 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345492 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345493 http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=345494

That is about what the ones I had looked like and they all failed at the nose rivet location, tore completely across.

Aaron :)

jon.612 10-14-13 09:32 AM

This is my '62 Raleigh Sports. I like the utility black version. The seatpost is a laid back BMX - English 3 speeds and BMX share a lot of the same tubing dimensions - sort of handy, as both are very heavy duty designs. I have the women's version of the same year/color for my significant other. Great bikes for living in Saint Paul - Plenty of places to bike within a few miles, and no need to change clothes to ride this one.

PalmettoUpstate 10-15-13 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 16152519)
Palmetto Upstate, your description of the work you did is impressive. I don't think I'd ever have the patience to be that thorough on a bike, but it's inspiring. I might apply one of those tasks to a bike and another to another. So thank you.

Tom I think you're looking at the procedure that Gasbag used... [and I agree with your observation]

PalmettoUpstate 10-15-13 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon.612 (Post 16154174)
I've had a few old Brooks saddles with split leather at the rivets. I won't ride them - I have this vision of the leather failing and the seat post going right into the cavity that it's pointed toward. Really not worth it in my book.

Yikes! Sounds like a Medieval Torture device!

I am going to probably ride the saddle [gingerly] just around our neighborhood until it fails just to see how one holds up in this state. It has soaked up the Proofide pretty well and looks 1000% better than it did when the bike arrived here. In the meantime I'll be on the lookout for decent used Brooks saddles on eBay and decent prices on new ones elsewhere. Not sure if another B-72 will go on there or a B-66. Anyone reading this ever used a Brooks "Champion" saddle?

PalmettoUpstate 10-15-13 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 16154198)
Lycett Avenir, this is a really beautiful saddle that now lives on my Lenton while my Raleigh has a Wright's (another Brooks sub brand).

The company was founded in 1908 and taken over by Brooks in the 1920's and produced copies of Brooks saddles to a fairly high standard.

Many thanks; beautiful saddle!

gna 10-15-13 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon.612 (Post 16159496)
This is my '62 Raleigh Sports... Great bikes for living in Saint Paul - Plenty of places to bike within a few miles, and no need to change clothes to ride this one.

St. Paul, eh? Shouldn't your handle be jon.651?

Snsmith81 10-16-13 02:23 PM

Going home tonight to start taking pictures-- I've got a pair of Superbes and a Lady Sport right now and still on the hunt.
The Superbes are fully decked with the original rod brakes, fully enclosed chaincases, coat guards, locking fork..... (even though I would never be able to fit the high bar one I still love it.) I am on the search for a DL-1 loop frame... soooooo if anyone knows of one please keep me in mind. Pictures coming tonight.

Salubrious 10-16-13 08:04 PM

I picked up a pair of Humber Sports this year- the kind with the double fork and enclosed chainguard. The ladie's machine was in ridable condition but the gent's was not. There is a lot of rust! My plan is to make the bike ridable, but keep the bike otherwise as original as possible (although I am considering Sun CR-18s as the rims are in dreadful condition). So I have to service out everything.

This means I have to remove the chainguard! The best I can make out I have to remove the chain first, then the crank. I have all its screws out, but its not obvious to me how the guard comes apart... any tips?

Gasbag 10-16-13 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snsmith81 (Post 16166131)
Going home tonight to start taking pictures-- I've got a pair of Superbes and a Lady Sport right now and still on the hunt.
The Superbes are fully decked with the original rod brakes, fully enclosed chaincases, coat guards, locking fork..... (even though I would never be able to fit the high bar one I still love it.) I am on the search for a DL-1 loop frame... soooooo if anyone knows of one please keep me in mind. Pictures coming tonight.

Dl-1 loop frame in Chicago Craigslist: http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/bik/4130512947.html

wahoonc 10-18-13 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Salubrious (Post 16167080)
I picked up a pair of Humber Sports this year- the kind with the double fork and enclosed chainguard. The ladie's machine was in ridable condition but the gent's was not. There is a lot of rust! My plan is to make the bike ridable, but keep the bike otherwise as original as possible (although I am considering Sun CR-18s as the rims are in dreadful condition). So I have to service out everything.

This means I have to remove the chainguard! The best I can make out I have to remove the chain first, then the crank. I have all its screws out, but its not obvious to me how the guard comes apart... any tips?

Got pictures? On mine there is a cover over the chain wheel that needs to come off and then there is a sliding cover near the rear cog that comes off, then you pull the chain and the chain ring and it will come off. Mine also has a couple of bolts on the inside of the case that are bolted to frame bosses.

Aaron :)

clubman 10-18-13 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gasbag (Post 16151268)
I used Fiebings Aussie Leather Conditioner with Beeswax . I have a farm supply a couple miles from my home so the choice to use it was convenience. Also figured if it could take care of a horse saddle, a bike saddle could benefit as well.

What seems to work pretty well for me is to put a small glob around the nose & rear rails from the bottom and melt it with my heat gun on low temperature. Then I warm up the saddle enough to make it melt while it gets applied to the rest of the saddle, top & bottom. I follow this with a proper buffing on the topside.

I got lucky with my saddle in that it was not damaged and took the conditioner well.

The B72 is hands down the best saddle I've ever ridden, hardly notice it at all.

Be careful over doing a Brooks with too much stuff. They're not nearly as thick or as tough as a horse saddle and only need a dab or two per year. It you soften up the leather around the rivets too much, they will tear when you tension the saddle. There are many threads covering this subject in the archives and many opinions. I happen to be right though! :thumb:

Salubrious 10-18-13 03:13 PM

^^ Figuring out where the bolt was on the inside of the chainguard was the thing that threw me. Once I sorted out how that round plate that covers the chainring came off, the rest was easy.

I hate to put incorrect parts on something this old, but the drive side crankarm is not only bent, but has a good saw cut in it from years of engagement with the chainguard. I have an old Durax crank that I plan to fit the bike with; at least the Durax crank is of the same period...

73emgee 10-19-13 09:36 AM

Scorcher Project
 
Scorcher - A fast, reckless cyclist who scares horses and old folks. This term was current in the late 19th century.

---Sheldon Brown





Just completed this project. It's basically a 1970 Raleigh Sports, in which the 3-speed AW hub was replaced with a modern version 5-speed Sturmey Archer hub. I had to spread the rear drop-outs to accommodate the 127mm wide hub, also a shifter boss brazed to the top tube before powder coating. The handle bar is a shorten and flipped cruiser type bar.



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