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-   -   For the love of English 3 speeds... (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/623699-love-english-3-speeds.html)

FishBiscuit 01-14-11 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LuckyChow99 (Post 12074705)
Thanks Sixty Fiver for the reply. Are you in agreement that the tubes should be replaced when the tires are? Also, I've not seen these premium tubes offered anywhere. Do you know who sells them?

I put Schwalbe tubes (model AV17) and Schwalbe Delta Cruiser tires on my DL-1s, and I couldn't be happier. I ordered my tubes and tires from Calhoun Cycle, but I know they're around. Harris Cyclery also offers them. The tires are offered both with and without a reflective stripe (I think you can get them in 28 x 1.5 in black too).

This photo was taken before I mounted the Schwalbe tubes:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5206/...ab437b4eae.jpg

Oh, and I'd recommend changing the tubes and tires at the same time, just for the fact that removing and replacing the wheels on this bike is a pain in the butt due, to having to readjust the brake stirrups, brake pads, fenders, chain tensioners, and 3-Speed indicator chain every time you do.

FishBiscuit 01-14-11 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 12070176)
One of my favourite English three speeds... in one of my favourite places.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/2011pdx1.JPG

... makes for one of my favorite photos! What rims did you put on your Twenty? That's the next upgrade for mine.

sykerocker 01-14-11 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver (Post 12074538)
It seems like a lot of people have never seen a Twenty here as many people have been asking about my little bike and a few have been amazed to discover it is also 37 years old... it really could not have come to me in better shape and I then upgraded the wheels and brakes.

I still have a lot of wonderful memories of the coffee colored Twenty I had for daily transportation back in '73. It replaced my ivory Sports because I was living in a second floor apartment (over a frame shop) and I got tired of having to climb two sets of steps to the attic to garage my bike. The Twenty fit nicely in the closet at the top of the entrance stairs. Only complaint I had was that I had to adjust the seat about an inch and a half beyond that 'maximum' mark on the seatpost for it to fit me properly. Having used it to climb a fairly steep hill in the south of Erie on a daily basis to get to work, I ended up modifying it with a Cyclo three-speed rear cluster and a Huret Allvit derailleur, taken from the Sports before I sold it.

Did a 50 mile ride (major bicycle rally in Erie) on the Sports one Sunday in a suit, bow tie, bowler hat, while smoking a pipe over most of the route.

Velognome 01-14-11 07:43 PM

are the Top Tube dimensions of a DL-1 and a Spot different, I know the geometry iis a bit more lax on the DL-1 and the tires are 28". What I'm really asking is a 23" DL-1 bigger than a 23" Sport?

FishBiscuit 01-14-11 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Velognome (Post 12079196)
are the Top Tube dimensions of a DL-1 and a Spot different, I know the geometry iis a bit more lax on the DL-1 and the tires are 28". What I'm really asking is a 23" DL-1 bigger than a 23" Sport?

I don't have a 23" Sports to compare, but I can tell you that the DL-1 from the 60s-80s was only available in 22" and 24" models. My 24" DL-1, from the front of the tire to the end of the rear reflector, is about 6'5" in length (23" top tube). By comparison, my girlfriend's 21" Sports is 5'10" in length, including the rear reflector (20.5" where a top tube would be).

The phantom top tube on the 22" DL-1L is 21". I'd guess it's about the same ratio as a Sports.

mixtemaniac 01-15-11 03:46 AM

I love this thread! I'm new to English 3-speeds, but would love to find one for myself. I've been trolling Craigslist and Ebay a bit, but I suspect my size will be difficult to come by. I generally ride a 61-63cm frame. The largest Raleigh 3-speed I've seen is a 53 or 54. Was there a model that was known to come in larger sizes that might be easier to find? Sports, Sprite, DL1, Tourist, etc? Although I am partial to fully enclosed chaincase bikes from some of the 1950's models.

sykerocker 01-15-11 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixtemaniac (Post 12080470)
I love this thread! I'm new to English 3-speeds, but would love to find one for myself. I've been trolling Craigslist and Ebay a bit, but I suspect my size will be difficult to come by. I generally ride a 61-63cm frame. The largest Raleigh 3-speed I've seen is a 53 or 54. Was there a model that was known to come in larger sizes that might be easier to find? Sports, Sprite, DL1, Tourist, etc? Although I am partial to fully enclosed chaincase bikes from some of the 1950's models.

The Sports, in theory, was available in a 25-1/2" frame although I don't remember ever seeing anything bigger than a 23-1/2" pass through the shop. If you were really tall, Merle would immediately move you towards a 24" DL-1, which was his personal ride. That is, if he could even get the customer to look past a 10-speed. I think back to those days and probably 75% of our customers during the Bike Boom would have been much better served by a Sports (after dinner rides thru the neighborhood) . . . . . . . . but that wasn't the style. Gotta have a 10-speed, never mind that they were uncomfortable as hell for most customers, and the derailleurs took a lot of getting used to.

And no, you're not mistaken - I really believe that 21-1/2" frames were the majority of production for a roadster, no matter what the English brand.

noglider 01-15-11 11:02 AM

I've never heard of a 25-1/2" Sports frame.

FishBiscuit 01-15-11 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixtemaniac (Post 12080470)
I love this thread! I'm new to English 3-speeds, but would love to find one for myself. I've been trolling Craigslist and Ebay a bit, but I suspect my size will be difficult to come by. I generally ride a 61-63cm frame. The largest Raleigh 3-speed I've seen is a 53 or 54. Was there a model that was known to come in larger sizes that might be easier to find? Sports, Sprite, DL1, Tourist, etc? Although I am partial to fully enclosed chaincase bikes from some of the 1950's models.

The largest Sports I've seen is a 23", and they show up for sale frequently. The 24" DL-1 Tourist (Men's) is fairly common (and available with a full Chaincase, less common). My Sprite 27 3-Speed has a 24-1/2" frame.

While my classic sensibilities prefer looking at the Sports, I prefer the Sprite on the road:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5005/...b7f05b0426.jpg

Sixty Fiver 01-15-11 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishBiscuit (Post 12078131)
... makes for one of my favorite photos! What rims did you put on your Twenty? That's the next upgrade for mine.

The rims are some Sumo BMX rims that were NOS and have a light gold anodized finish which goes with the green and gold on the bike...

wahoonc 01-15-11 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 12081450)
I've never heard of a 25-1/2" Sports frame.

I have; apparently it was UK market or possibly NL market only, and they made very few of them. I ride with a gentleman occasionally that used to have one when he lived in the UK, he has pictures of it, and regrets selling it to this day.

Aaron :)

sykerocker 01-15-11 06:21 PM

My main winter project is finished, the 1968 Ranger (built by Philips) 3-speed roadster. When I bought it (cost was $15.00) the frame and tinware was filthy, the wheel rims were oil covered and disgusting, and any other chrome was rust covered. The former owner had done a few odd things to it. The shift lever was in the place normally occupied by the left brake, and both brake levers were on the right hand side. As the bike was in working condition, I tried a test ride with the original setup, and whatever benefits he got from the setup completely escaped me. Also, in place of a bunch of missing cable clips, he duct taped the cable casings in place. Over the years the tape hardened and I ended up using rubbing compound to remove the glue residue from the paint. All chrome reclamation is courtesy of a oxalic acid bath.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Ranger1.jpg

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Ranger2.jpg

Virtually all the parts are the original. I had to replace the pedals (bearings were shot) with the original brand, but probably a couple of years newer as the original pedals didn't have built-in reflectors. Also, the current hand grips are period correct, but not identical in style to the original. The original grips were totally round and symmetrical. Cables and casings were replaced (originals were very discolored, and the original shift casing was white - may be replaced in the near future). I still need a clear plastic facing for the three speed shifter.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Ranger5.jpg

I was especially overjoyed that my cleaning of the frame did not damage the decals. The one on the down tube was already trashed thanks to the duct tape.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Ranger4.jpg

Originally, I restored this with the intent of taking it to Westminster for resale, although I'm happy enough with it that I may just keep it. It has a very short seatpost (the seat is already set at the absolute limit of extension that can still be clamped down) and is about 1/2" short for me to ride. That should be rectified on my next trip to Re-Cycles. While I can barely fit a 21-1/2" frame, I'm always happier on a 23-1/2". Which is my next search.

http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Ranger3.jpg

Now that it's done, and my abilities to handle a fragile restoration have been well practiced, I've started on the Roger Riviere. That one's going to take some serious time, as it's just as dirty, but in worse condition under the dirt.

noglider 01-15-11 06:55 PM

Excellent work. Seriohath! What's the roger rivière? Is there a thread for it?

sykerocker 01-15-11 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 12083093)
Excellent work. Seriohath! What's the roger rivière? Is there a thread for it?

Totally off-subject for this thread: A Roger Riviere is a cheap, $100.00, French 10-speed from the Bike Boom. Built by Gitane. Abysmal paint job with foil decals. Simplex Prestige with CLB Racer brakes. Three piece hubs with wing nuts and steel rims. Absolutely nothing stands out about it . . . . . . . . . except that I sold and wrenched them back in 1972 and spent almost 40 years looking for one. And I'm probably going to put the effort and care into restoring this one that you'd normally expend for a Masi or Colnago. The Ranger was my dry run for this bike. I wasn't going to touch it until I restored one to the above condition.

sekaijin 01-15-11 08:50 PM

^ beautiful red Ranger! Impressive bike rescue job.

LuckyChow99 01-15-11 09:37 PM

Thanks for sharing your beautiful photos of the Ranger. I never knew this bike existed before today!

FishBiscuit 01-15-11 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sykerocker (Post 12082953)
My main winter project is finished, the 1968 Ranger (built by Philips) 3-speed roadster.
http://i132.photobucket.com/albums/q...es/Ranger1.jpg

Beautiful bike! Nice restoration!

Chris_in_Miami 01-15-11 10:06 PM

Beautiful Ranger sykerocker, that cowboy theme is really cool! It just needs a rear rack with a scabbard for your Red Ryder carbine.

snarkypup 01-15-11 11:38 PM

Love the Ranger! Gorgeous!

Sixty Fiver 01-15-11 11:42 PM

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/2011pdx2sep.JPG

sykerocker 01-16-11 08:37 AM

^^^^^ Sheer poetry as a still life.

Of course, the other side of me immediately thought, "It's not locked. Bet it doesn't last there more than five minutes."

kingfish254 01-16-11 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris_in_Miami (Post 12083790)
Beautiful Ranger sykerocker, that cowboy theme is really cool! It just needs a rear rack with a scabbard for your Red Ryder carbine.

Just be careful and don't put your eye out!

LuckyChow99 01-16-11 04:55 PM

I thought some of you would like to see my 1965 Sprite. I'm not exactly sure of the year, but I believe it's close. This bike was not originally a 3 speed. I changed it over from a 5 speed derailleur. Therefore, the hub is no help in dating it. Also, I've not been able to find the serial number in any of the lists on the internet.

Typical of Craigs List finds, it was sort of a mess when I found it. I dissassembled everything, cleaned, greased and reassembled. The seat was missing, so I put one of my favorites on it. It measures 22" from BB to top tube. Has a 32" standover. Also, I changed the rear cog out to a 22t. Sure makes a difference.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5009/...dc3259a2_z.jpg
IMG_0024 by LuckyChow, on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5124/...f9b61bb6_z.jpg
IMG_0038 by LuckyChow, on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5125/...db82d437_z.jpg
IMG_0026 by LuckyChow, on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5290/...f01d3b9a_z.jpg
IMG_0029 by LuckyChow, on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5005/...43e3f7fd_z.jpg
IMG_0031 by LuckyChow, on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5204/...a408e66d_z.jpg
IMG_0036 by LuckyChow, on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5001/...cfe3e976_z.jpg
IMG_0034 by LuckyChow, on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5202/...3cc284fa_z.jpg
IMG_0028 by LuckyChow, on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5008/...a48b8ecc_z.jpg
IMG_0060 by LuckyChow, on Flickr

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5048/...3725f687_z.jpg
IMG_0071 by LuckyChow, on Flickr

This was my first. Learned a lot on this bike. Ready to start soon on my DL-1 Tourist. Should be fun!

LuckyChow99 01-16-11 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishBiscuit (Post 12078098)
I put Schwalbe tubes (model AV17) and Schwalbe Delta Cruiser tires on my DL-1s, and I couldn't be happier. I ordered my tubes and tires from Calhoun Cycle, but I know they're around. Harris Cyclery also offers them. The tires are offered both with and without a reflective stripe (I think you can get them in 28 x 1.5 in black too).

This photo was taken before I mounted the Schwalbe tubes:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5206/...ab437b4eae.jpg

Oh, and I'd recommend changing the tubes and tires at the same time, just for the fact that removing and replacing the wheels on this bike is a pain in the butt due, to having to readjust the brake stirrups, brake pads, fenders, chain tensioners, and 3-Speed indicator chain every time you do.

FishBiscuit, somehow I missed you message the first time around. Thanks for your reply. You bring up a great point. Changing a flat would not be fun on this bike. I'll go ahead and replace the tubes at the same time.

Amesja 01-16-11 06:18 PM

Is the Brooks original? If so there should be a brand in the underside of the saddle with a year and a month. They started doing that after 1960 I think.


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