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  1. #1801
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    I wouldn't worry much about whether the spokes have been replaced or not. The original rims would have been marked as Raleigh Endricks at the center of the rim; if these aren't marked, they've likely been replaced. Endrick is Raleigh's name for box pattern rims. Westwoods are raised-center, rod-only rims, while Westricks are the most common - raised center for rod or calipers (Westwood + Endrick = Westrick).

    MkII, eh? Hmm - GH8? At any rate, the Dynohub is around the same era as the bike; it hasn't been added on.

    Where are those QR mounts, might I ask? I only see them on the forks.

    The solution to your front end issue is this tool:



    ...which has turned these:

    (MILD)


    (EXTREME)



    Into these:





    -Kurt

  2. #1802
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    I wouldn't worry much about whether the spokes have been replaced or not. The original rims would have been marked as Raleigh Endricks at the center of the rim; if these aren't marked, they've likely been replaced. Endrick is Raleigh's name for box pattern rims. Westwoods are raised-center, rod-only rims, while Westricks are the most common - raised center for rod or calipers (Westwood + Endrick = Westrick).

    MkII, eh? Hmm - GH8? At any rate, the Dynohub is around the same era as the bike; it hasn't been added on.

    Where are those QR mounts, might I ask? I only see them on the forks.

    The solution to your front end issue is this tool:



    -Kurt
    The solution to A's frame issue is to bring it to a frame builder who will re-braze the head tube and lugs to the top and downtube (and replace those if needed) as they appear to have separated.

    You know my position on the Park tool... it can make a damaged frame look whole and with some refinishing a badly damaged frame can pass as being safe when the head tube and joints have been compromised.

    There is a good reason why they don't make these anymore... once a frame is bent at the head lugs it is usually a write off unless it is particularly rare or valuable and needs to be rebuilt properly and not just bent back into shape without considering what kind of internal damage has been done.

    The liability issues surrounding the use of this tool are HUGE.

  3. #1803
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Today, I just picked up a 1963 Royal, indistinguishable from a Raleigh. I bought it from the original owner who remembers when his father bought him this bike. He is 60 years old. In 1971, his uncle bought him a Raleigh Record and he's been riding both since then, though he favors the Record. The Royal is in better condition. It needs little work. And it's a men's model. I don't find many men's models in good working condition. It looks grungy, but the test ride showed it to work well. It has two caliper brakes AND a coaster brake. It has a TCW III hub, dated 1/1963. Works great. This rear hub has potential. I don't know yet what I'll do with it, but I'll figure it out.

    Sorry Jimmy. It's another 21-1/2" frame.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  4. #1804
    Senior Member auchencrow's Avatar
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    Kurt - (and Sixty)

    This is the condition of the frame - no separation that I can see but some bending. I have repaired one frame through cold setting myself - caem out well - but I would not attempt it in this one myself.



    Another view of the "MkII" Dynohub



    Here are the mounts for the Bluemels

    - Auchen

  5. #1805
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    The solution to A's frame issue is to bring it to a frame builder who will re-braze the head tube and lugs to the top and downtube (and replace those if needed) as they appear to have separated.
    You mean example B. The lugs never separated; I don't know where you're seeing it.

    EDIT: Oh; you meant Auchencrow's frame. I still don't see any separation.

    There's a reason that example (the Windsor) was listed as "extreme." It was a test on a friend's wrecked frame to see how much cold-setting that Windsor's soft steel could put up with. He's still riding it to work since we straightened it, and to our surprise, it hasn't opened up - yet. It'll be a year since, come 7 days from now.

    Mind you, that frame remains an experiment - I'm not suggesting that anyone go out there and take anything with this amount of damage to it and re-use it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    You know my position on the Park tool... it can make a damaged frame look whole and with some refinishing a badly damaged frame can pass as being safe when the head tube and joints have been compromised.
    The joints are hardly compromised - I'd be far more suspect of the tubing just behind the joints.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    There is a good reason why they don't make these anymore... once a frame is bent at the head lugs it is usually a write off unless it is particularly rare or valuable and needs to be rebuilt properly and not just bent back into shape without considering what kind of internal damage has been done.
    And that's why it's the perfect tool for Auchencrow's '38 Golden Arrow - especially as the GA is essentially a gas-pipe frame.

    Heck, there's evidence my '51 Sports "C" Tourist was repaired with this tool ages ago - mind you, the fork was bent too. Haven't seen any ill effects from either, even though it's joined me on some curb hopping expeditions.

    -Kurt

  6. #1806
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by auchencrow View Post
    Kurt - (and Sixty)

    This is the condition of the frame - no separation that I can see but some bending. I have repaired one frame through cold setting myself - caem out well - but I would not attempt it in this one myself.
    Know anyone with an HTS-1 that can help you up there in Detroit?

    -Kurt

    P.S.: We really ought to start a new thread on this bike, eh?

  7. #1807
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Maybe this is just some crud on the frame behind the lug... or some less than stellar workmanship but could also be an early indicator of some lug separation.


  8. #1808
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Having taken apart a good number of frames I can tell you that in many cases the penetration of the brass / silver is often minimal and incomplete... it is amazing how little brazing material can hold a frame together and the best looking frames often don't look that good from the inside.

    Have taken apart a few wrecked Kuwaharas and my appreciation for these bikes has increased when I have seen how well done the brazing work is as many were done by hand and the workmanship is stellar like many mid eighties Japanese bicycles.

    Auchen's bike is worth restoring and it could be straightened and have the brazing re-done as this is the proper way to repair a frame with this kind of damage and then it would be good for the next 100 years and one would never have to worry about the repair failing.

  9. #1809
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    Y

    The joints are hardly compromised - I'd be far more suspect of the tubing just behind the joints.

    And that's why it's the perfect tool for Auchencrow's '38 Golden Arrow - especially as the GA is essentially a gas-pipe frame.

    -Kurt
    This was the feedback I got from my partner who is a master frame builder... even if the lugs are not compromised the tubing behind them has been and it is our practice to replace any bent tubes. The tube walls are thin and bending them can cause cracks and stress risers but even a cracked steel frame won't fail catastrophically unless things separate completely.

    We restored a 1917 CCM last fall and it required a nearly full tear down and front end rebuild and had to have a new top and down tube brazed in... the frame was filet brazed originally and had been bent and badly repaired some time during it's nearly 100 years of life.

    Have to get some pictures of this bike now... it is probably straighter now than when it was first built.

  10. #1810
    Senior Member auchencrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Maybe this is just some crud on the frame behind the lug...
    Sixty -
    Definitely crud. I took a moistened Q-tip to it just now, to be sure.
    I am going to start a new thread on this bike though because I'm taking up too much space on this one.

    Noglider -
    Where are the pics of the 1963 Royal?
    Pics or it didn't happen.
    Last edited by auchencrow; 05-20-11 at 06:08 AM.
    - Auchen

  11. #1811
    Senior Member Mexican Street Dog's Avatar
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    Did all the Golden Arrows have the riveted seatstays? Where the seatstay meets the seat lug.

  12. #1812
    rhm
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    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by waverley610 View Post
    From 1937-9 three speeds were stamped AW7 AW8 AW9, from 1940 ....
    No, not quite! In I have a "0" (1940). I don't know when they started using two digits.

  13. #1813
    rhm
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    multimodal commuter rhm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Brill View Post
    Did all the Golden Arrows have the riveted seatstays? Where the seatstay meets the seat lug.
    FTWelder's definitely does. He started a thread on it a few months ago. Auchen?

  14. #1814
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Maybe this is just some crud on the frame behind the lug... or some less than stellar workmanship but could also be an early indicator of some lug separation.
    Raleigh's baked-enamel paint jobs are magnets for developing light-colored dirt around the shorelines. Note the same residue around the pump peg.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Having taken apart a good number of frames I can tell you that in many cases the penetration of the brass / silver is often minimal and incomplete... it is amazing how little brazing material can hold a frame together and the best looking frames often don't look that good from the inside.
    That's very much the the case with the TI-era Sports frames; for that matter, virtually any model below the Professional and Team Professional in Raleigh's lineup may be found with huge voids. You've been hanging around too many crappy low-end frames (or too many Italian high-end frames).

    These pre-TI frames (roughly 1961 and earlier) are pretty much the opposite. I've yet to see one with a gap at the shoreline (some might have a bit too much brass at the shoreline), and I've yet to hear of one coming apart. Look at your own collection of early Raleighs and tell me what you find at the shorelines.

    What's more, I'm pretty sure these frames were NOT mitered; all the more reason for the brass penetration to be adequate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver View Post
    Auchen's bike is worth restoring and it could be straightened and have the brazing re-done as this is the proper way to repair a frame with this kind of damage and then it would be good for the next 100 years and one would never have to worry about the repair failing.
    Auchen's bike is also worth attempting to keep as original as possible - in other words, if a repair without paint damage can be attempted, so be it.

    -Kurt
    Last edited by cudak888; 05-20-11 at 08:54 AM.

  15. #1815
    rhm
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    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest...

    Auchen, have you ridden this beastie yet? If it rides okay (and it probably will) you really don't have to straighten the frame.

    I'm sure you'll want to pick up a real Raleigh Lauterwasser bar, but if you can't (and I might as well break it to you: even with your luck, you probably can't), I'd leave the Northroad. Mebbe flip it over, though.

    And I think I'd leave the black fenders and chain guard, too. It looks right.

  16. #1816
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    Auchen, have you ridden this beastie yet? If it rides okay (and it probably will) you really don't have to straighten the frame.
    ...so that anyone who understands what it is can snicker behind his back about it being bent?

    -Kurt

  17. #1817
    Senior Member auchencrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Brill View Post
    Did all the Golden Arrows have the riveted seatstays? Where the seatstay meets the seat lug.
    FTWelder's definitely does. He started a thread on it a few months ago. Auchen?
    rhm -
    It seems that two out of the 4 Golden Arrows associated with our members have riveted stays - the other like mine does not.
    - Auchen

  18. #1818
    Senior Member auchencrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhm View Post
    I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest...

    Auchen, have you ridden this beastie yet? If it rides okay (and it probably will) you really don't have to straighten the frame.

    I'm sure you'll want to pick up a real Raleigh Lauterwasser bar, but if you can't (and I might as well break it to you: even with your luck, you probably can't), I'd leave the Northroad. Mebbe flip it over, though.

    And I think I'd leave the black fenders and chain guard, too. It looks right.
    I have ridden it only briefly - It needs to be overhauled and it does not shift right largely because there is no pulley - and with the N'roads so far back and the seat forward, it's too crampt for me.

    This is why I am keen on the forward sloping lauterwassers.

    It does seem to track OK in spite of the frame damage - but I suspect it's an entirely different feel from what it would be with such a laid back head angle. I'd like to experience the GA thing and put it right.

    I am debating on how to proceed with it - The early dyno hub, and fenders - and maybe even period - but not original I think.
    (I was kicking around options in another dedicated thread, because I don't want to monopolize everyone's time here.)
    - Auchen

  19. #1819
    Bicycle Repair Man !!! Sixty Fiver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    That's very much the the case with the TI-era Sports frames; for that matter, virtually any model below the Professional and Team Professional in Raleigh's lineup may be found with huge voids. You've been hanging around too many crappy low-end frames (or too many Italian high-end frames).
    -Kurt
    It is a bit of both...

  20. #1820
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    Armstrong bicycle

    Hi, I am new to this forum. I have a 1964 Armstrong bicycle and I am looking for some parts for it. Where is a good place to buy parts? I need a new shifter and cable and also a brake cable. Also, here is a picture of my bike to share!

    [/IMG]

    Ok, well I have no idea how to post a photo.
    Last edited by Koniucha; 05-22-11 at 09:39 AM.

  21. #1821
    Senior Member BigPolishJimmy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koniucha View Post
    Hi, I am new to this forum. I have a 1964 Armstrong bicycle and I am looking for some parts for it. Where is a good place to buy parts? I need a new shifter and cable and also a brake cable. Also, here is a picture of my bike to share!



    Ok, well I have no idea how to post a photo.
    Lets see if I can make this work in a quote.
    Last edited by BigPolishJimmy; 05-22-11 at 01:10 PM.

  22. #1822
    Cottered Crank Amesja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koniucha View Post
    Hi, I am new to this forum. I have a 1964 Armstrong bicycle and I am looking for some parts for it. Where is a good place to buy parts? I need a new shifter and cable and also a brake cable. Also, here is a picture of my bike to share!



    Ok, well I have no idea how to post a photo.
    Start at Sheldon Brown's page at Armstrong and keep reading and clicking on links. You can buy just about anything from Harris Cyclery (that same page as Sheldon's if you keep clicking on links you'll find their 3-speed parts store) on Amazon/Niagara, maybe your local LBS or in a worst-case YellowJersey has a bunch of neat/odd roadster/light-roadster parts.
    '74 Raleigh Carlton Competition w/ Ultegra | '97 Trek 720 Singletrack CX-er w/ 105 | '64 Raleigh LTD-3 modernized w/ all alloy components |'69 Raleigh Twenty | '54 Raleigh Sports

  23. #1823
    Senior Member ftwelder's Avatar
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    I have been watching this thread forever and have wanted to make a contribution. I ride English three-speeds nearly every day and often twice (weather permitting). This one of my first acquisitions but sat for quite a while before getting some attention. I wasn't sure what to do with it but it sure looked like fun to ride. From what I can tell it's a 1946-48 Rudge Whiteworth. I rode this bike for the first time today. It is still missing front brake blocks and parts for one chain tug. I ran my errands on the old girl and got caught in a shower. Here are the pics.


    27 103 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    27 101 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    27 102 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    27 100 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr
    1886 Surrey machinists Invincible, 1900 Nashua, 1937 Raleigh Golden Arrow, 1938 Raleigh Silver Record, 1951 Armstrong tourmalet, 1970 Motobecane Grand Record, 1971 Raleigh Professional, 1971 Gitane TDF, 1972 Legnano Gran Primio, 1973, Peugeot PX-10, 1975 Roberts, 1984 Battaglin Giro, 1985 Grandis Speciale, 2012 FTW

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  24. #1824
    Senior Member kingfish254's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftwelder View Post
    I have been watching this thread forever and have wanted to make a contribution. I ride English three-speeds nearly every day and often twice (weather permitting). This one of my first acquisitions but sat for quite a while before getting some attention. I wasn't sure what to do with it but it sure looked like fun to ride. From what I can tell it's a 1946-48 Rudge Whiteworth. I rode this bike for the first time today. It is still missing front brake blocks and parts for one chain tug. I ran my errands on the old girl and got caught in a shower. Here are the pics.


    27 103 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    27 101 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    27 102 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr


    27 100 by barnstormerbikes, on Flickr
    Very nice Rudge. I still haven't touched my 48 Rudge Whitworth Sports. Someday someday.........
    May the Fold be with you

    48 Rudge Whitworth Sports - 59 Schwinn Panther II - 68 26" Columbia Roadster - 79 Schwinn Spitfire 5
    68 16" Graziella Tandem Folder - 73 Raleigh Twenty Folder - 89 16" Dahon Stainless Classic III Folder - 05 20" Dahon Jetstream P8 Full Suspension Folder - Dahon Mu XL Sport
    - plus various bikes to flip

  25. #1825
    Senior Member auchencrow's Avatar
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    That is a gorgeous bike Frank - a real classic. I love the understated Rudge-Whitworth logo on the chain guard. Every time I see the name though, I have to think about the story about outfitting those Crimean War gunboats. - I am not entirely clear though how they got the Whitworth name on the bikes. Maybe someone else can elaborate.
    - Auchen

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