Bike Forums

Bike Forums (http://www.bikeforums.net/forum.php)
-   Classic & Vintage (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/)
-   -   Cannondale Touring - Can ALU be Classic & Vintage? (http://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vintage/623994-cannondale-touring-can-alu-classic-vintage.html)

khatfull 02-26-10 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by noglider (Post 10452618)
I can't say what you'll like. One person's pleasure is another person's torture.

I ride this on my modern bike:

http://www.wheelies.co.uk/Images/Products/19132.jpg

Most people would consider it a 21st century torture device. It is, for me, hands down, the best saddle I've ever ridden. Go figure.

Collin2424 03-03-10 04:29 PM

Not sure if anyone is following this thread still, but can any one of you experts tell me if these brakes will work on my Cannondale?

http://www.amazon.com/Cane-Creek-SCR.../dp/B001039WXC

I found a front/rear set in black with upgraded pads for $40 locally. I think that's my best bet right now, assuming the mounting is correct. I didn't have time to check of my fork takes this bike of caliper before I left today!

Thanks a million.

-Collin-

noglider 03-03-10 04:31 PM

Probably will work. Worth a try. Sending returns to Amazon is particularly easy, and I hate doing returns.

RFC 03-03-10 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Collin2424 (Post 10476803)
Not sure if anyone is following this thread still, but can any one of you experts tell me if these brakes will work on my Cannondale?

http://www.amazon.com/Cane-Creek-SCR.../dp/B001039WXC

I found a front/rear set in black with upgraded pads for $40 locally. I think that's my best bet right now, assuming the mounting is correct. I didn't have time to check of my fork takes this bike of caliper before I left today!

Thanks a million.

-Collin-

Get these and save money.

http://bikeisland.com/images/brakeset3.jpg

JunkYardBike 03-03-10 04:50 PM

It looks like your Cannondale requires traditional nutted calipers, rather than recessed allen nuts (unless someone fit washers over recessed holes - you have to check). Also, the calipers you link to are rather short reach (39-49). If you've got 27" wheels and hope to move to 700c at some point, you'll need a longer reach. Here's how to measure your current brake reach: http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ra-e.html#reach

For dual pivot traditional nutted calipers, Velo Orange has some Tektros in silver in 55-73mm reach, maybe too long for you. Doesn't look like they have black. For shorter reach or black, you can cobble together a set yourself by purchasing a set of Tektro R556's in black (or shorter R538 in 47 to 57mm reach) and one Tektro 800a front (or a pair if you can't find a single). You use the recessed bolt R556 or R538 front on the rear, and swap the 800a bolt front onto the shorter Rseries rear. The 800a used to be available inexpensively for about $18 a pair, but I can't find them, so maybe this solution is too expensive.

Of course, that's if you want modern dual pivots. You can probably find some nice NOS or lightly used nutted single pivots that will perform nicely.

Collin2424 03-03-10 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkYardBike (Post 10476900)
It looks like your Cannondale requires traditional nutted calipers, rather than recessed allen nuts (unless someone fit washers over recessed holes - you have to check). Also, the calipers you link to are rather short reach (39-49). If you've got 27" wheels and hope to move to 700c at some point, you'll need a longer reach. Here's how to measure your current brake reach: http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_ra-e.html#reach

For dual pivot traditional nutted calipers, Velo Orange has some Tektros in silver in 55-73mm reach, maybe too long for you. Doesn't look like they have black. For shorter reach or black, you can cobble together a set yourself by purchasing a set of Tektro R556's in black (or shorter R538 in 47 to 57mm reach) and one Tektro 800a front (or a pair if you can't find a single). You use the recessed bolt R556 or R538 front on the rear, and swap the 800a bolt front onto the shorter Rseries rear. The 800a used to be available inexpensively for about $18 a pair, but I can't find them, so maybe this solution is too expensive.

Of course, that's if you want modern dual pivots. You can probably find some nice NOS or lightly used nutted single pivots that will perform nicely.

Darn, so essentially what you're saying is that those Cane Creek calipers have too short a stud to make it through the fork, right? Forgive my relative lack of knowledge on this. Can this stud be replaced, or is that more trouble than it's worth? I thought these were a pretty good deal at $40 for the pair with new pads. But if I can't use them, that doesn't matter I suppose.

I really wanted to find something locally; I'm just too darn impatient to wait for mail order! Oh, and that means the set from Bike Island won't work either, correct?

-Collin-

Edit: Oh, and I'm not planning on making the move to 700c wheels. I mean maybe way down the line, but not in the next year or two. So let's plan on using these on 27" wheels indefinitely if that changes anything.

JunkYardBike 03-03-10 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Collin2424 (Post 10476976)
Darn, so essentially what you're saying is that those Cane Creek calipers have too short a stud to make it through the fork, right?

Right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Collin2424 (Post 10476976)
Can this stud be replaced, or is that more trouble than it's worth?

I tried to explain that! :lol: It was a pain to write, but not as difficult to do. But it would be expensive as it appears the 800a's are no longer available for $18 (found them for $42).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Collin2424 (Post 10476976)
Oh, and that means the set from Bike Island won't work either, correct?

Right again, unless you drill out the fork hole and brake bridge hole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Collin2424 (Post 10476976)
Edit: Oh, and I'm not planning on making the move to 700c wheels. I mean maybe way down the line, but not in the next year or two. So let's plan on using these on 27" wheels indefinitely if that changes anything.

You need to measure the brake reach to find the appropriate calipers.

Collin2424 03-03-10 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkYardBike (Post 10477004)
Right.



I tried to explain that! :lol: It was a pain to write, but not as difficult to do. But it would be expensive as it appears the 800a's are no longer available for $18 (found them for $42).



Right again, unless you drill out the fork hole and brake bridge hole.



You need to measure the brake reach to find the appropriate calipers.

Sorry I misunderstood what you tried to explain - I get it now. I didn't realize I'd have to buy an entirely different set of calipers to get the right stud. So much for this idea! I better call the guy now, who is on his way to show them to me!

I'll keep thinking of options. Either way, thanks so much for clearing that up for me. Can you find me some more used Pauls? :D

-Collin-

JunkYardBike 03-03-10 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Collin2424 (Post 10477037)
Sorry I misunderstood what you tried to explain - I get it now. I didn't realize I'd have to buy an entirely different set of calipers to get the right stud. So much for this idea! I better call the guy now, who is on his way to show them to me!

I'll keep thinking of options. Either way, thanks so much for clearing that up for me. Can you find me some more used Pauls? :D

-Collin-

It appears the Pauls are also recessed unfortunately! Do some research on drilling. Or, measure your brake reach. These might work for you, though they only come in silver: http://www.velo-orange.com/ter5brnumo.html

EjustE 03-03-10 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkYardBike (Post 10477125)
It appears the Pauls are also recessed unfortunately! Do some research on drilling. Or, measure your brake reach. These might work for you, though they only come in silver: http://www.velo-orange.com/ter5brnumo.html

At that price (just for brakes and not levers), I think that a better move is to get some long reach Shimano dual pivot super SLR brakes (RX100 is a great choice for the price). A whole brakeset should cost less than those VO brakes and they are better brakes than the Tektros

JunkYardBike 03-03-10 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EjustE (Post 10477173)
At that price (just for brakes and not levers), I think that a better move is to get some long reach Shimano dual pivot super SLR brakes (RX100 is a great choice for the price). A whole brakeset should cost less than those VO brakes and they are better brakes than the Tektros

Not a bad idea, but traditional nutted are hard to find. Of course, again, there's always the option to drill...

And I'm not sure I agree they are better than the Tektros. I've got some Shimano A550's (basically RX100's) and the Tektros, and they seem equal in quality to me. The SLR levers would be an nice upgrade, however.

Collin2424 03-03-10 06:02 PM

Why is it necessary to upgrade the levers? I thought these aero Dia Compe ones were decent?

-Collin-

EjustE 03-03-10 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Collin2424 (Post 10477218)
Why is it necessary to upgrade the levers? I thought these aero Dia Compe ones were decent?

-Collin-

Getting these Dia Compe levers to work with dual pivot calipers will be a Grand Cru PITA

JunkYardBike 03-03-10 06:06 PM

From Sheldon Brown:

Shimano Linear Response, a series of friction-reducing modifications introduced in the late 1980's in the Shimano 105 group. The 105 SLR brakes (the best sidepull calipers ever made, in my opinion) incorporated:

* Ball bearing caliper pivots.

* Low-friction cables.

* Nylon spring bumpers.

* Reduced spring tension.
By adding a weak return spring to the brake lever, they were able to drastically reduce the tension of the caliper return spring. Since the cable was being pushed at one end and pulled at the other, a positive return function could be attained with a much lower overall spring tension. This greatly improved the "feel" and sensitivity of the brake. (This aspect of the SLR design was, I believe, copied from Dia Compe, which calls it "B.R.S.".)

This system was replaced by "Super SLR" which is Shimano's name for double-pivot brakes.


http://sheldonbrown.com/gloss_sa-o.html#slr

Collin2424 03-03-10 06:51 PM

Does the money pit ever end? Patrick - are you suggesting I find some 105's? That will require drilling the fork, right? I assume I'd need new cables and levers for this setup then, right?

-Collin-

JunkYardBike 03-03-10 07:07 PM

Well, you could just stick with what you have for the time being. :)

But, yes, if you go to modern brake calipers, the weaker spring may require an assist from the brake levers. Honestly, I've never tried SLR or dual pivots with older brake levers, so I can't say it won't work. Are the levers you have BRS? Are they spring loaded (meaning when they are disconnected from the cable, they spring back to the 'open' position)? If so, you can probably use them.

You may be able to find 105's with traditional nut mounts. I've never looked personally. But those are single pivots. I'm not suggesting you go that route, I simply pasted Sheldon Brown's explanation of the SLR system. If you could find a traditional nutted 105 caliper and lever set, you would probably save some money. However, you'd also be looking for a while, so you're not going to get them tomorrow, unless you're incredibly lucky.

Drilling might get you what you want faster. There are simply more options available in recessed nut form.

JunkYardBike 03-03-10 07:10 PM

And, no, the money pit never ends. But it's far cheaper than a car, isn't it!

Collin2424 03-03-10 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JunkYardBike (Post 10477505)
And, no, the money pit never ends. But it's far cheaper than a car, isn't it!

I suppose that's entirely true. I spent more on a new ECU/software map for my can in about an hour than I did on this bike plus two other bikes...all for 70 horsepower.

Anyway, thought you guys might enjoy an updated photo. I realized that I forgot to post when I was "done" with the bike. It's now fully outfitted with a rear rack, some panniers, a headlight, a frame pump and I think that's about it. It's such a joy to ride to work. I don't regret this purchase one bit. I just love it!

http://www.collinsacks.com/bikes/c13.jpg

-Collin-

Collin2424 03-03-10 10:22 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Shimano-...item1c10a6a642

So if I were to get something like that, is there any gaurantee that it will even work better than what I have now? It would seem like a non-SLR sidepull is a non-SLR sidepull. Why would one have more stopping power than the other? Maybe I should just replace the pads and man up (squeeze the brakes harder :D)?

-Collin-

corkscrew 03-03-10 10:36 PM

I realize someone commented on your brakes being a PITA earlier. However, are they really that crappy that a set of new Kool Stops wouldn't do the trick?

Love your bike btw. :) Good work!

JunkYardBike 03-03-10 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Collin2424 (Post 10478367)
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Shimano-...item1c10a6a642

So if I were to get something like that, is there any gaurantee that it will even work better than what I have now? It would seem like a non-SLR sidepull is a non-SLR sidepull. Why would one have more stopping power than the other? Maybe I should just replace the pads and man up (squeeze the brakes harder :D)?

-Collin-

Man up! What's wrong with the brakes currently? Simply take more manual force to stop than with your modern bike? Basically, I think that's what the SLR type systems do: improve the 'feel' of the brakes and reduce the manual force necessary to achieve equal braking power. You might try some Kool Stop salmon compound pads, at least up front. They may still feel mushy, but they stop well in my experience. The Continenatal model is usually the go to choice, but they do have a tendency to squeal, unless you can get them properly toed in (for which they have no built in adjustment). In my experience, the older Campy replacement pads are much nicer than the Continentals, if you have some holders available: http://www.koolstop.com/brakes/index...-Premium-57453. Sometimes you can also find them NOS on ebay or elsewhere with the name "Scott/Mathauser". But then finding a nice set of Campy holders isn't always economical.

Those brakes you've linked to are Dura Ace EX. Not much different than what you have, though possibly less flexy (mushy feeling). They may also end up selling for far more than you might expect.

EjustE 03-03-10 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corkscrew (Post 10478432)
I realize someone commented on your brakes being a PITA earlier. However, are they really that crappy that a set of new Kool Stops wouldn't do the trick?

Nope

the PITA is getting those Dia Compe levers to work with SLR or super SLR or any pivot caliper brakes. Could potentially be done, but for the hours/days you need to spend doing it, it does not make sense.

Collin2424 03-03-10 11:13 PM

I've actually got a brand new set of these: http://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...s.aspx?sc=FRGL

May as well throw them on. Doubt they're as good as the Koolstops, but they may work well enough!

-Collin-

JunkYardBike 03-03-10 11:27 PM

Go for it. Those pads have a good reputation, and you can do toe-in adjustment. They might interfere with your fork blades, but maybe not.

mkeller234 03-04-10 12:36 AM

The pads that you linked to are for V-brakes, will that work?

You asked earlier if all basic sidepull brakes are the same feel wise. In my own experience the answer is no. I had a set of Weinmann 605 sidepulls that, to me felt very spongey. Even with kool stop continental brake pads the Weinmann calipers performed pretty poorly. I replaced the Weinmann brakes with a set of Campy NR sidepulls from the same era. Using the same levers and brake pads that I used with the weinmanns, the Campy brakes are obviously better (in my opinion).

Take your time in making a decision. I personally think the nutted Tektros from Velo-Orange are a great option. Make a list of the specs you need, what brake reach, nutted, etc.


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:37 PM.