robatsu

Most of my selling on Ebay has been in bike related stuff. But now that we are clearing out the house in prep for a move to Japan, I've started selling off a bunch of woodworking hand tools. And I immediately noticed a pretty big difference in buyer behavior for woodworking tools vs. vintage bike parts buyers.

That is, the tools guys seem to bid (and watch) early and often, whereas the vintage bike guys are stone killer snipers, holding their fire till the last minute.

I posted 10 auctions today for stuff, none of it is collector/unique, although it is high end, finely crafted stuff (think Lie Nielsen). Within about 6 hours, several items had been bid up close to final value - some of this stuff is available new, so there is a clear upper bound. And the majority of items had multiple nominal bids. Everything has plenty of watchers....

Me, I pretty much got used to selling bike stuff, where even highly desirable stuff sometimes goes for days before getting even the 99 cent bid. I also learned not to worry about this, since all the action was frequently the last two minutes.

So this is sort of interesting. I've got some theories about why it is different, maybe just a deeper market, some demographic factors.

Anyone else ever notice substantially different behaviors in different categories? Had it even occurred to me to ask the question in advance, I would have guessed that my tool auctions would have proceeded similarly to higher end bike parts auctions, since generically, they are similar goods - non-essential, connossieurial, nicely crafted stuff in a $50-$300 range for well informed enthusiasts, but it isn't looking that way in this example.

McStuff

I think it has to do with the essence of what is being sold. The wood working tools are more a commodity, a common occurrence. They hold practical value and can be more commonly bought new. They don't need to bid snipe to score that killer deal on a vintage trek that isn't common. They can bid early and go for another auction if necessary. On the other hand, the vintage bike stuff is completely different. Inherently, these aren't as common, and people will be looking for the best deal on the rare stuff. They'll wait until the last minute and try to grab is as quickly as possible. That's just my take on it, anyway.

Ragooch

You should never sell your tools. Anything but.......

robatsu

Generally, I tend to agree w/this. I'm not selling any of my mechanical tools, but I don't see myself setting up a woodshop anytime soon in Japan, but I'm always wrenching on things. And if I do, Japanese toolshops are pretty awesome. The hand saws are particularly neat - you cut on the pull stroke instead of the push. After you get the hang of it, it is pretty amazing how straight you can cut with these. The hand planes are similar, cutting on the a pull stroke. And all that metalwork craftsmanship they used to put into sword blades now gets put into all sorts of nifty little tools, knives, etc. A fairly commonplace Japanese hardware or knife store can be a pretty magical place for a westerner. It bugs the heck out of my wife, I always want to drop into these places and just look around.

foozle

Enjoy Japan. We just moved back from Tokyo a few months ago. Neither my wife or I are Japanese. She just went back to see friends and I will go over the end of the month on business.

bbattle

It's all a big game to the snipers.

I bid on what I want at a price I think is fair and go to bed. Maybe check eBay a week later to see if I won. I freaked out a seller that had a Davidson frame by bidding what I thought it was worth on its first day on the block. He assumed I was some sort of shill trying to ruin his auction. I finally convinced him I was on the level. Bids did come in at the end and I lost it by $10. Easy come, easy go.

khatfull

I've been using eBay since 99...the way things have changed, not the least of which is how auctions go down, is astounding. I've seen so many thing where people pay more then retail or more than online prices without inflated shipping. It's amazing sometimes.

So do I....I place my bid with eSnipe, then go to bed. All I am is one less bidder in the mix driving up prices early in the auction. There's nothing wrong with sniping. I prefer to call it "bid timing". And, in the end, if your high bid is higher than mine you win and I lose just like "normal".

20grit

I'll say that I think sniping has taken the fun out of ebay. I've moved from musical instruments into bikes and the bidding wars still seem to exist for the instruments. Definitely not the case for bikes. I seldom really plan on buying anything, the fun for me is bidding. If i happen to get something cheap enough then I buy it. Speaking of which... would you people stop bidding against me!!!! I keep waiting on someone to show up with several bikes i've been bidding on and lost recently. (the last two i've lost because i fell asleep 20 minutes before auction close... but that's no excuse haha)

khatfull

No, eBay took the fun out of eBay a long time ago...it's nothing but an eCommerce site now.

ldmataya 

Interesting observation. I think there may be different value systems involved as well. My wife buys and sells vintage dolls. These aren't commodities at all yet many people in her demographic believe there is an inherent value to an item that should not be violated. For example, she will list something for no reserve and $1 start and immediately get emails saying will you end the auction and sell it to me for $X (which they point out is more than a fair price). Then - it ends up selling for significantly more than $X and she literally gets hate mail. "How can you be so crass as to take advantage of these people who just don't know what that doll is worth." (I am paraphrasing one of her messages only slightly.)

jet sanchEz

I wonder what the vintage bicycle market will be like in Japan? I've always noticed that the bigger Japanese collectors like the old Italian stuff, does that mean the vintage Japanese stuff is not that hot over there? You could make out like a bandit, if that is the case...

phoebeisis

The folks buy tools because they want a nice useful tool.They see them as keepers worth X amount to them, and to everyone else.A dollar or two more doesn't matter to them since they plan to get full worth out of the tool by using it-using it forever. They just bid what it is worth to them-and that is it. Not a life or death struggle like the bike part flippers are engaged in.

The bike stuff buyers are trying to make a $$, and they think bidding at the last second will keep the price down by a dollar or two.They are buying it to sell it, so final price is a big deal to them. They don't really want to use the item-they want to make a $$ off it.

Both views are correct-more or less.

khatfull

Neither has to be correct or not correct, it's just simply a dynamic of the marketplace eBay has created.

robatsu

Well, if you can even find vintage Japanese stuff in Japan. First, a lot of that stuff was primarily for export, as with other products like big motorcycles (it is way easier to find old Japanese 750-1100 bikes here than there). At least in the Japanese warrens I haunt, it is fairly unusual to see a bike w/drop bars & derailleurs, my estimate is less than 1% of random bikes traveling down the road. Beyond that, and beyond the handful of Japanese collectors and Toeis, Japanese tend to view a bicycle as a completely utilitarian object to a much greater degree than Americans, even Americans who are only peripherally involved in cycling. It is like a mixer or something, just a tool to get them to the train station, grocery store, etc, without little special character or romance. And Japanese are pretty merciless with pitching old stuff they don't venerate, some of this is cultural, some of it is due to less living space.

So I'm not expecting much, although occasionally you see some cool stuff in dusty old bike cases and there are the renowned Japanese classic bike operations. But I wouldn't say that is any more frequent there than here.

One thing that is cool, though, is some of the new bike stuff, esp lights and stuff. Since they are much more utility oriented, a much greater percentage of bikes have lights and fenders than here and there is a wide array of dynamo lights, fender mounted taillights than here and won't be imported here due to reluctance of Japanese companies to deal with U.S. product liability environment. I know this from personal experience being involved in trying to get some neato Bridgstone fender mounted solar powered taillamps here for Velo Orange a couple of years back.

And beyond that, the dynamo lights we get here tend to be of European manufacture, which adheres to some German standards limiting output.

So in Japan, you can get something like the below at your corner grocery story for $60 or so. Some of this, some shops will ship to U.S. (check en.rakuten.co.jp, an internet order collective site), but it is a case by case basis, some products the mfgr forbids retailers from shipping to U.S. because of product liability issues.

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robatsu

Oh yeah, not even 24 hours into it, and the auctions I posted yesterday are collectively already at about 50% of what I estimated the max return from this blast would be. From a sellers strategy, maybe that means that I have to worry less about end times trying to catch that Sunday Night Fever.

wrk101

I don't see a difference by category, I see a difference by type of item. I am typically selling several thrift store/garage sale finds every week (not bicycle stuff). Some stuff has a a strong following, some has a very limited audience. On the limited audience stuff, I tend to start the auction at a high price, and often I just get one bid. On the popular stuff, I start them cheap, usually 99 cents.

I don't bash ebay, as it is one of the only ways I can get market value out of obscure items, like the Kelty Base Camp kid carrier/backpack I sold last week. No way could I have sold it locally for more than about $10.

Some people expect an online auction to work just like an in person auction. They just don't work that way. Sniping is the only way to go if you want to increase your odds of successfully winning an item without exceeding your target price.

RobbieTunes

Audio gear I used to buy / sell had no sniping. You either got it pretty darn cheap or it didn't sell. The high cost of shipping that stuff really kept the prices down at the time. I don't know about now, but I've got a closet full of the stuff, and a 15-year old. If he ever finds it, I'm doomed.

Then again, he blows the Forte II's, he is.

big chainring 

I watch some bike items on ebay-uk from time to time. There is virtually no bidding until the final minutes. I thought I was going to get a deal several times only to see the price skyrocket in the final minute. A British thing?, I dont know.

I also was into vintage Lionel trains for a while. Bidding seemed to be steady from the time of listing to the end, but the sniping was prevalent at the as well.