'Ambiguous' ebay listing: Centurion Cinelli Equipe
#1
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'Ambiguous' ebay listing: Centurion Cinelli Equipe
Be warned: last weekend I sold my 62cm Centurion Cinelli Equipe frameset at the Trexlertown swap meet. It was, without a doubt, a Centurion contracted Cinelli when it left my hands.
By some strange alchemy, it has somehow morphed into a Cinelli frame that may have been repainted and badged as a Centurion. Because that's exactly what any proud Cinelli owner would do.
Also, though the seller provides an obliquely angled photo of the rear right dropout, it doesn't clearly show the evidence of a repair. The dropout had been crushed at some point, and a torch had been used to reset it. I informed the seller of this, but apparently such information doesn't fit his marketing scheme.
Oh, and the tubing is Columbus SL/SP, not SLX. And all of the chrome has light rust pitting.
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...%3DI%26otn%3D2
EDIT: FWIW, I have contacted the seller with this information.
By some strange alchemy, it has somehow morphed into a Cinelli frame that may have been repainted and badged as a Centurion. Because that's exactly what any proud Cinelli owner would do.
Also, though the seller provides an obliquely angled photo of the rear right dropout, it doesn't clearly show the evidence of a repair. The dropout had been crushed at some point, and a torch had been used to reset it. I informed the seller of this, but apparently such information doesn't fit his marketing scheme.
Oh, and the tubing is Columbus SL/SP, not SLX. And all of the chrome has light rust pitting.
https://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...%3DI%26otn%3D2
EDIT: FWIW, I have contacted the seller with this information.
Last edited by JunkYardBike; 05-16-10 at 03:20 PM.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't a "real" Cinelli have fastback seatstays? In any case, yes, lame.
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Sorry to say, I've had experience with this Ebay seller and this is true to his method. He skillfully skirts around the truth just enough to be ambiguously enticing, leaving plenty of room on the other side of the transaction for deniability as necessary. A skillful player.
I even had telephone conversation with him and he played the misunderstood, unjustly accused defense well. His last resort was indignant injury.
Too bad, because he frequently has some interesting stuff.
I even had telephone conversation with him and he played the misunderstood, unjustly accused defense well. His last resort was indignant injury.
Too bad, because he frequently has some interesting stuff.
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Bump this for emphasis.
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I had Windsor Pro that I thought might have been made by Cinelli. I never made such a claim when I sold it. At least it had fastback seat cluster and round holes in the lugs
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Wow you guys are really mean!
You guys are really being a bunch of jerks if you ask me... Calling me a "crook" etc???
How am I a crook? I don't see how photographing EVERY part of the frame in detail could possibly be trying to hide anything and those out there who are calling to make a false bid on it are just fraudulent and mean.
First of all I am calling the frame a Cinelli because it IS a Cinelli. If that's not the exact term used for a Centurion branded Cinelli well excuse me... your bike-nerd-dom clearly surpasses mine... (I bow in awe)....
Secondly I completely forgot that the previous owner mentioned something about a rear dropout repair... probably because I can hardly tell that anything has been repaired and the frame is excellent in all regards, as far as I can tell (and I'm good at this, it's what I do).
The previous owner is probably just salty because I'm industrious enough to sell it for more than he could.
If you're interested in the frame feel free to contact me with any questions.
Jim
How am I a crook? I don't see how photographing EVERY part of the frame in detail could possibly be trying to hide anything and those out there who are calling to make a false bid on it are just fraudulent and mean.
First of all I am calling the frame a Cinelli because it IS a Cinelli. If that's not the exact term used for a Centurion branded Cinelli well excuse me... your bike-nerd-dom clearly surpasses mine... (I bow in awe)....
Secondly I completely forgot that the previous owner mentioned something about a rear dropout repair... probably because I can hardly tell that anything has been repaired and the frame is excellent in all regards, as far as I can tell (and I'm good at this, it's what I do).
The previous owner is probably just salty because I'm industrious enough to sell it for more than he could.
If you're interested in the frame feel free to contact me with any questions.
Jim
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You guys are really being a bunch of jerks if you ask me... Calling me a "crook" etc???
How am I a crook? I don't see how photographing EVERY part of the frame in detail could possibly be trying to hide anything and those out there who are calling to make a false bid on it are just fraudulent and mean.
First of all I am calling the frame a Cinelli because it IS a Cinelli. If that's not the exact term used for a Centurion branded Cinelli well excuse me... your bike-nerd-dom clearly surpasses mine... (I bow in awe)....
Secondly I completely forgot that the previous owner mentioned something about a rear dropout repair... probably because I can hardly tell that anything has been repaired and the frame is excellent in all regards, as far as I can tell (and I'm good at this, it's what I do).
The previous owner is probably just salty because I'm industrious enough to sell it for more than he could.
If you're interested in the frame feel free to contact me with any questions.
Jim
How am I a crook? I don't see how photographing EVERY part of the frame in detail could possibly be trying to hide anything and those out there who are calling to make a false bid on it are just fraudulent and mean.
First of all I am calling the frame a Cinelli because it IS a Cinelli. If that's not the exact term used for a Centurion branded Cinelli well excuse me... your bike-nerd-dom clearly surpasses mine... (I bow in awe)....
Secondly I completely forgot that the previous owner mentioned something about a rear dropout repair... probably because I can hardly tell that anything has been repaired and the frame is excellent in all regards, as far as I can tell (and I'm good at this, it's what I do).
The previous owner is probably just salty because I'm industrious enough to sell it for more than he could.
If you're interested in the frame feel free to contact me with any questions.
Jim
Don't confuse generous pricing and an honest disposition with being salty and un-industrious. Almost all of us will flip bikes on ocassion, and we certainly wouldn't criticize another for doing it. You're being called out for being a dishonest dirt ball, not for flipping a bike.
Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 05-17-10 at 09:26 AM.
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I'm not the guy who called you a "crook" but I stand by my statement of experience with you. I considered you misleading then, and still do. I declare myself distinctly free from your tasty "jerk" remark. That's awfully similar to the language you used on me before.
In your "first" and "second" examples above.......you now stand alerted by the various facts and credible claims contained in this thread. As a good citizen why not let your Ebay ad reflect your new understanding?
J
In your "first" and "second" examples above.......you now stand alerted by the various facts and credible claims contained in this thread. As a good citizen why not let your Ebay ad reflect your new understanding?
J
You guys are really being a bunch of jerks if you ask me... Calling me a "crook" etc???
How am I a crook? I don't see how photographing EVERY part of the frame in detail could possibly be trying to hide anything and those out there who are calling to make a false bid on it are just fraudulent and mean.
First of all I am calling the frame a Cinelli because it IS a Cinelli. If that's not the exact term used for a Centurion branded Cinelli well excuse me... your bike-nerd-dom clearly surpasses mine... (I bow in awe)....
Secondly I completely forgot that the previous owner mentioned something about a rear dropout repair... probably because I can hardly tell that anything has been repaired and the frame is excellent in all regards, as far as I can tell (and I'm good at this, it's what I do).
The previous owner is probably just salty because I'm industrious enough to sell it for more than he could.
If you're interested in the frame feel free to contact me with any questions.
Jim
How am I a crook? I don't see how photographing EVERY part of the frame in detail could possibly be trying to hide anything and those out there who are calling to make a false bid on it are just fraudulent and mean.
First of all I am calling the frame a Cinelli because it IS a Cinelli. If that's not the exact term used for a Centurion branded Cinelli well excuse me... your bike-nerd-dom clearly surpasses mine... (I bow in awe)....
Secondly I completely forgot that the previous owner mentioned something about a rear dropout repair... probably because I can hardly tell that anything has been repaired and the frame is excellent in all regards, as far as I can tell (and I'm good at this, it's what I do).
The previous owner is probably just salty because I'm industrious enough to sell it for more than he could.
If you're interested in the frame feel free to contact me with any questions.
Jim
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Furthermore, according to people who have not owned any bikes sold to you, this little convenient lack of disclosure on your part appears to be a recurring theme. Keep this in mind - the Cinelli isn't the only scar to your reputation.
It is not.
Is a Confente-built Masi a Confente? No, it's a Masi.
Is a Ross built by Spectrum Cycles a Spectrum? No, it's a Ross.
Is a Bridgestone made by Panasonic a Panasonic? No, it's a Bridgestone.
Was your bike sold as a Cinelli? No, it was sold as a Centurion.
Your bike is a Centurion, made by Cinelli for Centurion. Simple as that.
-Kurt
Last edited by cudak888; 05-17-10 at 09:43 AM.
#16
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First of all I am calling the frame a Cinelli because it IS a Cinelli. If that's not the exact term used for a Centurion branded Cinelli well excuse me... your bike-nerd-dom clearly surpasses mine... (I bow in awe)....
Secondly I completely forgot that the previous owner mentioned something about a rear dropout repair... probably because I can hardly tell that anything has been repaired and the frame is excellent in all regards, as far as I can tell (and I'm good at this, it's what I do).
The previous owner is probably just salty because I'm industrious enough to sell it for more than he could.
This one is prior to a bit of cleaning with bronze wool:
#17
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Oh, and regarding your ebay listing Q&A, I'm not sure what 'oh so slightly mentioned' the dropout repair means. I told you. I'm not sure how someone slightly mentions something. Also, I wasn't bragging about the 130mm rear spacing, I was informing you because to many collectors, that would detract from the value of the frameset (though it can obviously be reset).
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Just more evidence of his shady, hedging ways. Must work for him.
J
J
Oh, and regarding your ebay listing Q&A, I'm not sure what 'oh so slightly mentioned' the dropout repair means. I told you. I'm not sure how someone slightly mentions something. Also, I wasn't bragging about the 130mm rear spacing, I was informing you because to many collectors, that would detract from the value of the frameset (though it can obviously be reset).
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..brutal...
again you guys are really brutal.
If you saw this frame you would probably have the same opinion as me.
The problem with doing business on ebay is that if you make any oversights, or don't know as much as the biggest expert out there, everyone is quick to call you a liar or a thief. If you all were really decent people you would just write to tell me hey... I don't think you're exactly correct in your info on this bike, most people don't consider this a "Cinelli". As far as I'm concerned any bike with the Cinelli c engraved in the stays and fork crown is most certainly a Cinelli. In this case I called it a Cinelli since I was unsure if the paint was original. SO I was trying to be MORE accurate than calling it a centurion.
Worse yet the guy who sold it to me has posted the photos from PRIOR TO HIS OWN RESTORATION to try to make me out to be a crook! Now THAT is shady. The bike had been restored of many of the issues in those photos before I bought it.... That's dirty pool, Junkyardbike. Again you are just salty because I'm flipping it... back off.
I've already added an appendage to the auction but it seems I will probably have to end it, and start a new auction with a different title etc. Frankly I appreciate the info on the tubing and branding of the frame but for future reference, there is really no need to be so accusatory over this stuff. I'm just trying to get this frame, in an honest fashion, to someone it fits who will love it.
Good Day.
If you saw this frame you would probably have the same opinion as me.
The problem with doing business on ebay is that if you make any oversights, or don't know as much as the biggest expert out there, everyone is quick to call you a liar or a thief. If you all were really decent people you would just write to tell me hey... I don't think you're exactly correct in your info on this bike, most people don't consider this a "Cinelli". As far as I'm concerned any bike with the Cinelli c engraved in the stays and fork crown is most certainly a Cinelli. In this case I called it a Cinelli since I was unsure if the paint was original. SO I was trying to be MORE accurate than calling it a centurion.
Worse yet the guy who sold it to me has posted the photos from PRIOR TO HIS OWN RESTORATION to try to make me out to be a crook! Now THAT is shady. The bike had been restored of many of the issues in those photos before I bought it.... That's dirty pool, Junkyardbike. Again you are just salty because I'm flipping it... back off.
I've already added an appendage to the auction but it seems I will probably have to end it, and start a new auction with a different title etc. Frankly I appreciate the info on the tubing and branding of the frame but for future reference, there is really no need to be so accusatory over this stuff. I'm just trying to get this frame, in an honest fashion, to someone it fits who will love it.
Good Day.
Last edited by unterhausen; 05-17-10 at 03:26 PM. Reason: edited out the insults
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.... Alright fairly... I don't think junkyard bike is being an ass here. You did tell me about the dropout and I promptly forgot about it AND didn't notice it later.
just really guys... ease up. I'm not trying to fool anyone on any bikes...ever.... It's very tough to get every detail right all of the time.
I'd liek to send out an all encompassing SHEEEESH here.
just really guys... ease up. I'm not trying to fool anyone on any bikes...ever.... It's very tough to get every detail right all of the time.
I'd liek to send out an all encompassing SHEEEESH here.
#22
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Worse yet the guy who sold it to me (who is being a complete ass here) has posted the photos from PRIOR TO HIS OWN RESTORATION to try to make me out to be a crook! Now THAT is shady. The bike had been restored of many of the issues in those photos before I bought it.... That's dirty pool, Junkyardbike. Again you are just salty because I'm flipping it... back off.
I've already added an appendage to the auction but it seems I will probably have to end it, and start a new auction with a different title etc.
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From what I've seen, auction accuracy and disclosure save a lot of headaches later on. The sale price not be as high, but the incidence of righteously indignant buyers goes way down. Not sure that I'd consider the gaps with the initial listing to be "little", but to be fair to the seller, we should take a time out and give him (I'm presuming) a chance to put up the new auction.
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No, and we see the frame.
Not if it's a once-off issue that's promptly rectified. You will find very little sympathy for repeat offenders.
No wonder you're always in hot water. Those Cinelli engraved castings are as generic as a Cinelli-stamped bottom bracket. Any builder could get them if he or she wished.
A number of frames that are neither Cinelli nor Centurion were built by framebuilders who used these castings - with the Flying C engraving intact.
Now you are showing your real colors. Remember what I said about sticking your foot in your mouth?
At this point, you might as well tell everyone that you are a charlatan, because there is no way in hell that you can redeem yourself at this point.
Look who's talking.
John, are you going to let this fellow unfairly attack Junkyardbike?
-Kurt
A number of frames that are neither Cinelli nor Centurion were built by framebuilders who used these castings - with the Flying C engraving intact.
Worse yet the guy who sold it to me (who is being a complete ass here) has posted the photos from PRIOR TO HIS OWN RESTORATION to try to make me out to be a crook! Now THAT is shady. The bike had been restored of many of the issues in those photos before I bought it.... That's dirty pool, Junkyardbike. Again you are just salty because I'm flipping it... back off.
At this point, you might as well tell everyone that you are a charlatan, because there is no way in hell that you can redeem yourself at this point.
John, are you going to let this fellow unfairly attack Junkyardbike?
-Kurt
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