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  1. #1
    grad stud. dashuaigeh's Avatar
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    campy component rankings

    I think I've got a fairly good idea of how older Shimano component groups (up to around the Dura-Ace 7402...anything that still had DT shifters ) are ordered in terms of quality, lightness, weight, etc (value?). I don't know much on the vintage Campy side of things though; could anyone give me a quick idea of Campy componentry? From what I can see, the ordering goes something like this

    Super Record
    Record
    Chorus
    Athena
    Centaur
    Veloce
    Mirage

    ordered with best at top. However, I've heard the naming is a bit less consistent with Campy from year to year, and that the era of the groupset matters a lot in terms of its value. Is this accurate?

  2. #2
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashuaigeh View Post
    From what I can see, the ordering goes something like this

    Super Record
    Record
    Chorus
    Athena
    Centaur
    Veloce
    Mirage

    ordered with best at top. However, I've heard the naming is a bit less consistent with Campy from year to year, and that the era of the groupset matters a lot in terms of its value. Is this accurate?
    The hierarchy has changed dramatically throughout the era; yours is quite recent.

    I'll start with mid-1980's, and bear in mind this doesn't take into account every exception or timeframe:

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1980's/mid-1980's:

    TOP-END:
    C-Record - introduced 1984
    50th Anniversary - 1983 only
    Super Record - until 1987, dropped from catalogs well before
    Nuovo Record - same story as SR

    MID-RANGE:
    Victory/Victory LX - introduced 1984/5, renamed Victory S3 in 1987. Coexisted with Nuovo Gran Sport; never shown in the same catalogs. Product line placement in reference to N.G.S. is ambiguous. Triomphe and Victory were essentially a two-tier replacement for the outgoing Nuovo Gran Sport group.
    Triomphe/Triomphe LX - introduced 1984/5, renamed Triomphe S3 in 1987. Same deal as Victory.
    Nuovo Gran Sport - dropped from catalog in 1986, probably produced until 1987. Was Campag's economy full-group back in the '70s.
    "Touring" group: Mix of Nuovo Gran Sport components with second-gen Rally RD and 116 BCD crankset that was re-styled for Victory and Triomphe, shown in 1985 catalog.

    ECONOMY:
    990 - front and rear derailer only, cosmetic revamp of 980, introduced 1987
    980 - front and rear derailer only, superseded by 990 in 1986
    Valentino Extra - derailers only, dropped 1986 according to catalogs

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    1970's era:

    TOP-END:
    Super Record - top end when introduced 1974, dethroned Nuovo Record
    Nuovo Record - top end when introduced 1967 (1966 at trade shows), dethroned Record
    Record - original steel Record introduced 1963, dethroned Gran Sport as top of the line. Phased out in the '70s
    Gran Sport - dropped in 1973 for introduction of Nuovo Gran Sport in 1974, never a full group

    MID-RANGE:
    Nuovo Gran Sport - introduced 1974; fate listed in the 1980's category

    ECONOMY - nothing below is a full group, neither are they in order (because they don't deserve it):
    Gran Turismo - horrid touring RD
    Valentino/Valentino Extra - FD/RD set
    Sport - Gran Sport RD w/single jockey wheel
    Some others not worth mentioning

    -Kurt
    Last edited by cudak888; 07-10-10 at 02:03 AM.

  3. #3
    Buh'wah?! Amani576's Avatar
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    And to elaborate a little on what Kurt said, Campy had very few products before the 1970's.
    Before the introduction of Record in '63, Gran Sport was top of the line. I'm not sure what other derailleurs they made other than that before then, I do believe there was a single pulley model that sold horribly and was quickly phased out (perhaps the "Sport" Kurt listed). Before Gran Sport was Paris-Roubaix which was a single lever version of the supremely nifty Cambio-Corsa. Mainly what they made up until the 70's was hubs and quick releases. Some derailleurs, but I don't believe a groupset existed before Nuovo Record.
    -Gene-

  4. #4
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amani576 View Post
    Before the introduction of Record in '63, Gran Sport was top of the line.
    There was a theme going at this point too:

    Gran Sport - unseated by Record. Record gets unseated by Nuovo Record, Nuovo Record then kicked out by Super. C-Record kicked the entire lot out after a short time, then the C prefix was dropped, reverting the name back to Record.

    Campagnolo hasn't tired of this either. 2010 is here, and Record once again takes a back seat to the new Super Record 11.

    By contrast, Shimano's top components only had one name change (Crane became Dura-Ace), but the top has always remained Dura-Ace. Even DI-2 is technically an upgrade kit for/variant of mainstay Dura-Ace. The expectation for Campagnolo's naming convention to follow this pattern is where many folks get confused.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amani576 View Post
    I do believe there was a single pulley model that sold horribly and was quickly phased out (perhaps the "Sport" Kurt listed).
    Bingo.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amani576 View Post
    I don't believe a groupset existed before Nuovo Record.
    Also correct. Nuovo Record was the first group with a brakeset; also Campagnolo's first brakeset, period.

    -Kurt
    Last edited by cudak888; 07-10-10 at 02:12 AM.

  5. #5
    grad stud. dashuaigeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    By contrast, Shimano's top components only had one name change (Crane became Dura-Ace), but the top has always remained Dura-Ace. Even DI-2 is technically an upgrade kit for/variant of mainstay Dura-Ace. The expectation for Campagnolo's naming convention to follow this pattern is where many folks get confused.
    That's probably why I know Shimano componenetry better. Thanks for these explanations; they help a lot.

  6. #6
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    That said, here's my own, simplistic, personal perspective of how I rank Campy's bits throughout the years. I lettered groups which are quite close to each other in quality, but have little features that - I feel - make them just that much better or worse than the group next to it. Scream at me if you wish:

    1A. C-Record with RD B-screw, Cobalto brakes in group
    1B. Victory
    1C. Super Record/50th

    2A. Nuovo Record/Record
    2B. Gran Sport

    3. C-Record first-gen w/sprung RD top pivot, Cobalto brakes in group
    4. Nuovo Gran Sport
    5. Triomphe/980/990
    6. Valentino Extra
    7. Dirt
    8. Gran Turismo

    -Kurt
    Last edited by cudak888; 07-10-10 at 02:20 AM.

  7. #7
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dashuaigeh View Post
    I think I've got a fairly good idea of how older Shimano component groups (up to around the Dura-Ace 7402...anything that still had DT shifters ) are ordered in terms of quality, lightness, weight, etc (value?). I don't know much on the vintage Campy side of things though; could anyone give me a quick idea of Campy componentry? From what I can see, the ordering goes something like this

    Super Record
    Record
    Chorus
    Athena
    Centaur
    Veloce
    Mirage

    ordered with best at top. However, I've heard the naming is a bit less consistent with Campy from year to year, and that the era of the groupset matters a lot in terms of its value. Is this accurate?
    Also there was a lowend group for a few years int eh early '90s called Xenonn, plus for a few short years there was the Croce De Anue which apparently was not very good as Campy dropped it pretty quick.

    there was also a Centar offroad group at onetime (IIRC) and also Olympus

    off road although again shortlived Euclid, Centar, Olympus, then most of these dropped by the wayside and Record OR took over.

    Record also had tandem parts as a variation at one time, one of the most unusual things I ever saw was a 1 1/4 threaded Record Headset on a Santana
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '09 Motobecane SS, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  8. #8
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    Were early Record derailers ever made of steel?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
    Also there was a lowend group for a few years int eh early '90s called Xenonn, plus for a few short years there was the Croce De Anue which apparently was not very good as Campy dropped it pretty quick.
    croce de anue is/was a very nice group, it was just too close to chorus. think ultegra and ultegra sl

  10. #10
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    . Scream at me if you wish:

    A1A Shimano 105
    1A. C-Record with RD B-screw, Cobalto brakes in group
    1B. Victory
    1C. Super Record/50th

    2A. Nuovo Record/Record
    2B. Gran Sport

    3. C-Record first-gen w/sprung RD top pivot, Cobalto brakes in group
    4. Nuovo Gran Sport
    5. Triomphe/980/990
    6. Valentino Extra
    7. Dirt
    8. Gran Turismo

    -Kurt
    fxt
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  11. #11
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    Were early Record derailers ever made of steel?
    Yep:
    http://velobase.com/ViewSingleCompon...19fb5&Enum=108
    http://velobase.com/ViewSingleCompon...e1db2&Enum=108



    -Kurt

  12. #12
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miamijim View Post
    fxt
    That's right. Shimano 105 should be put on A1A to be run over.

    -Kurt

    P.S.: As if I mean it. I just recommended a 105 group to a local friend, as a good budget group to build his Raleigh Team Pro up with.
    Last edited by cudak888; 07-10-10 at 11:09 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdgenbird View Post
    croce de anue is/was a very nice group, it was just too close to chorus. think ultegra and ultegra sl
    Speaking of Chorus - I definitely think the original Chorus gruppo deserves a shout out, even though late to the C+V party. Not on a par with 7400, maybe, but I have a panto Chorus group on my late 80's Bianchi and dig it. Aesthetically and functionally nice - arguably works better than C-Record, and the monoplaner brakes are cool (and were used by a number of pros).

  14. #14
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picchio Special View Post
    Speaking of Chorus - I definitely think the original Chorus gruppo deserves a shout out, even though late to the C+V party. Not on a par with 7400, maybe, but I have a panto Chorus group on my late 80's Bianchi and dig it. Aesthetically and functionally nice - arguably works better than C-Record, and the monoplaner brakes are cool (and were used by a number of pros).
    you dont have to tell me

    i ditched a perfect set of chorus dual pivots for a set of NOS late veloce monoplanars. in my opinion they are the best looking brakes made. they are very close to the chorus units but came with the better cartridge brake pads.

  16. #16
    Senior Member embankmentlb's Avatar
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    Late 80's: Athena, Chorus, Croce-D-A, Record

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    There was a theme going at this point too:

    Campagnolo hasn't tired of this either. 2010 is here, and Record once again takes a back seat to the new Super Record 11.


    -Kurt
    Maybe that is why they don't release the electronic stuff, they cannot figure out a name for it.

    Servo Record?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by repechage View Post
    Maybe that is why they don't release the electronic stuff, they cannot figure out a name for it.

    Servo Record?
    i love it!

    my bet is e-record

  19. #19
    grad stud. dashuaigeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by repechage View Post
    Maybe that is why they don't release the electronic stuff, they cannot figure out a name for it.

    Servo Record?
    haha that's fantastic .

  20. #20
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cudak888 View Post
    Shimano's top components only had one name change (Crane became Dura-Ace), but the top has always remained Dura-Ace.
    Shimano's "Crane" designation originally only referred to the rear derailleur, and "Dura-Ace" only to the centerpull brakes. When Shimano decided to offer a full group, the Crane derailleur was rebadged as "Dura-Ace," the brakes were changed to side-pulls, and Dura-Ace labeled cranks, headsets and hubs were added. The centerpull brake was renamed "Tourney" and became the name of the second-tier group set.

  21. #21
    Senior Member embankmentlb's Avatar
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    Old Campy just can't be beaten in terms of beauty!!! It has that timeless quality, I love it!
    Quote Originally Posted by thirdgenbird View Post
    you dont have to tell me

    i ditched a perfect set of chorus dual pivots for a set of NOS late veloce monoplanars. in my opinion they are the best looking brakes made. they are very close to the chorus units but came with the better cartridge brake pads.

  22. #22
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I think there were other Shimano name changes. Didn't 600 become Ultegra?
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
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  23. #23
    www.theheadbadge.com cudak888's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    Nope.

    Chromed bronze.
    Touché

    -Kurt

  24. #24
    grad stud. dashuaigeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I think there were other Shimano name changes. Didn't 600 become Ultegra?
    Forgot about that one. At least it stayed the same in the lineup, though, whereas campy seemed to add stuff in, take stuff out, etc.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by noglider View Post
    I think there were other Shimano name changes. Didn't 600 become Ultegra?
    Quote Originally Posted by dashuaigeh View Post
    Forgot about that one. At least it stayed the same in the lineup, though, whereas campy seemed to add stuff in, take stuff out, etc.
    didnt it go 600>ultegra 600>ultegra

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