Mystified by my latest find: Guerciotti Tourist
07-25-10, 09:24 AM
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Mystified by my latest find: Guerciotti Tourist
Hi y'all,
Tom The Bike Dude here with my first post on Bike Forums (other than my introduction at the intro place).
I bought my first true blooded Italian Road Bike: a 1986 Guerciotti Tourist (TOURIST786 is etched on the Seat tube) and I am mystified as to what it is made of and how it was assembled. I paid $400 for it and feel like I stole it actually. I didn't have the heart to offer any less than what the seller was asking. I replaced the cracking Michelins, White San Marco Seat, added the tape to what was on it, adjusted and added grease to just the wheel bearings for now, put on a Shimano chain and dressed her out...
A Swedish automotive techie guy in my same industrial unit thinks it may be "adhesive bonded" rather than the normal "flow brazed" methods for lugged connections (The chances of me getting close to any correct terms here are poor to extremely doubtful ).
I'm also curious as to what model the Campy Cranks/Sprockets are and any additional information you all could provide. This is basically my first bike that has had any decent amount of Campagnolo parts...
Um... this photo was not taken by me
Tom The Bike Dude here with my first post on Bike Forums (other than my introduction at the intro place).
I bought my first true blooded Italian Road Bike: a 1986 Guerciotti Tourist (TOURIST786 is etched on the Seat tube) and I am mystified as to what it is made of and how it was assembled. I paid $400 for it and feel like I stole it actually. I didn't have the heart to offer any less than what the seller was asking. I replaced the cracking Michelins, White San Marco Seat, added the tape to what was on it, adjusted and added grease to just the wheel bearings for now, put on a Shimano chain and dressed her out...
A Swedish automotive techie guy in my same industrial unit thinks it may be "adhesive bonded" rather than the normal "flow brazed" methods for lugged connections (The chances of me getting close to any correct terms here are poor to extremely doubtful ).
I'm also curious as to what model the Campy Cranks/Sprockets are and any additional information you all could provide. This is basically my first bike that has had any decent amount of Campagnolo parts...
Um... this photo was not taken by me
Last edited by TomTheBikeDude; 07-25-10 at 09:35 AM.
07-25-10, 09:48 AM
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I'd like to see that engraving. The only models of Alan-rebadged Guerciottis that I know of are the Carbonio, Record, and Sprint. Some of them were labeled as such in white letters on the top tube; some were not. See if any lettering has rubbed off.
-Kurt
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07-25-10, 10:33 AM
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Holy $+#&*!,
God forbid it's aluminum (I think... or maybe that would be a good thing in this case). It rides too sweet unless the bonding and lug material (they are very thick lugs) provides vibration dampening as the Swedish guy suggested. I have to say though that it is spirited like aluminum but absorbs energy like steel. I don't have the bike with me here but I'll get photos of the engraving which is very small about 1/8" lettering laying vertically and very fine lined block letters... machine made.
The bottom of the crank housing is marked 57/ 58 (I think it's a slash) Made in Italy which all looked cast or forged into the metal.
I was hoping it was titanium. When I tap on the top tube it sounds very eggshellish and I do see some sort of bonding material around some of the lug fittings (unless it's corrosion)
I probably should have had the bike with me so I could get this stuff right away. If it's titanium will it attract a magnet.?
Thanks for your help but I may not be able to get photos back here until tonight.
God forbid it's aluminum (I think... or maybe that would be a good thing in this case). It rides too sweet unless the bonding and lug material (they are very thick lugs) provides vibration dampening as the Swedish guy suggested. I have to say though that it is spirited like aluminum but absorbs energy like steel. I don't have the bike with me here but I'll get photos of the engraving which is very small about 1/8" lettering laying vertically and very fine lined block letters... machine made.
The bottom of the crank housing is marked 57/ 58 (I think it's a slash) Made in Italy which all looked cast or forged into the metal.
I was hoping it was titanium. When I tap on the top tube it sounds very eggshellish and I do see some sort of bonding material around some of the lug fittings (unless it's corrosion)
I probably should have had the bike with me so I could get this stuff right away. If it's titanium will it attract a magnet.?
Thanks for your help but I may not be able to get photos back here until tonight.
07-25-10, 11:21 AM
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07-25-10, 11:33 AM
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It aluminum not Ti. The Campy bits are Triomphe.
07-25-10, 11:37 AM
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Probably a reference to frame type, and it is aluminum. Campagnolo Triomphe components with a Nuovo Record headset.
-Kurt
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07-25-10, 11:37 AM
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How about the forks and stays?
07-25-10, 11:37 AM
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07-25-10, 11:51 AM
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So I wonder what the bike will feel like knowing it's aluminum... if it will make a difference psychologically. I've only ridden it about 10 miles but it got me there very quickly with less effort than any of my steel bikes except perhaps the Bridgestone Triathlon Al (I think the tall center track on the tires has a lot to do with why that bikes pushes so effortlessly).
OK, so we resolved that, so is this bike shunned by collectors, embraced, or with many things in life... in the eyes of the beholder and worth whatever someone will pay. Right now it seems like the best of both worlds. Was it worth the $400 bucks? What are the up and downsides of this set up?
I had a Cannondale R2000si with carbon forks. That bike beat me to hell and I was glad to get rid of it at a nice profit.
The thought of aluminum forks is freaking me out now...
OK, so we resolved that, so is this bike shunned by collectors, embraced, or with many things in life... in the eyes of the beholder and worth whatever someone will pay. Right now it seems like the best of both worlds. Was it worth the $400 bucks? What are the up and downsides of this set up?
I had a Cannondale R2000si with carbon forks. That bike beat me to hell and I was glad to get rid of it at a nice profit.
The thought of aluminum forks is freaking me out now...
Last edited by TomTheBikeDude; 07-25-10 at 11:56 AM.
07-25-10, 12:45 PM
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I would not say they are shunned by collectors but they are not as sought out like bike like a Raleigh Carlton, Colnago, or Coicc or or even a SLX or TSX Guerciotti
and the price/value is just what you say, in the eye of the beholder. there are some here who would never pay $400 for that bike but then again some of us are so cheap we would not pay $100 for one of Sean kelly's KAS bikes
and the price/value is just what you say, in the eye of the beholder. there are some here who would never pay $400 for that bike but then again some of us are so cheap we would not pay $100 for one of Sean kelly's KAS bikes
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07-25-10, 12:57 PM
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... and do you guys think this is an Alan frame ...the company not the acronym... we have confirmed it's ALuminum ANodized.
An addition on the Sheldon Brown site comments as to what Alan also stands for:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/vrbn-a-f.html#alan
An addition on the Sheldon Brown site comments as to what Alan also stands for:
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/vrbn-a-f.html#alan
07-25-10, 02:05 PM
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It's an ALAN/AlAn. They were rebadged for Peugeot too. No surprises there. Those new machines that Sheldon refers to are not related to the old frames.
$400? A bit on the high side, but you got a nice one in good shape (just make DARN sure that there aren't any stress cracks anywhere). Though not high-end Campy, it's good Campy. Triomphe is an excellent component group. You might want to swap that RD for a Victory LX (and the FD to a Triomphe) to shed that Shimano 105 RD.
-Kurt
$400? A bit on the high side, but you got a nice one in good shape (just make DARN sure that there aren't any stress cracks anywhere). Though not high-end Campy, it's good Campy. Triomphe is an excellent component group. You might want to swap that RD for a Victory LX (and the FD to a Triomphe) to shed that Shimano 105 RD.
-Kurt
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07-25-10, 03:57 PM
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I don't think the etched TOURIST786 has anything to do with the frame ID, but it is an ID. If it were, it would probably not appear there, not in that orientation, and would appear in more places. Someone put it there to identify it as their bike.
07-25-10, 04:19 PM
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+10 Its an Alan frame. Saw one very similar for sale around here a couple of months ago.
07-25-10, 04:45 PM
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you could get an Alan really cheap back in the '70s. I'm surprised that they lasted as long as they did, they had a reputation for not being stiff enough
07-25-10, 05:55 PM
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07-25-10, 07:39 PM
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Going to disagree with you and the venerable Mr. Brown: it's been noted by the manufacturer that the name is actually derived from the first names of the founder's son (Alberto) and daughter (Annamaria).
There were dozens of brands that sold re-badged ALANs, Guerciotti was perhaps the biggest customer, you see nearly as many of these as actual ALANs.
There were dozens of brands that sold re-badged ALANs, Guerciotti was perhaps the biggest customer, you see nearly as many of these as actual ALANs.
07-25-10, 07:51 PM
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It's an ALAN/AlAn. They were rebadged for Peugeot too. No surprises there. Those new machines that Sheldon refers to are not related to the old frames.
$400? A bit on the high side, but you got a nice one in good shape (just make DARN sure that there aren't any stress cracks anywhere). Though not high-end Campy, it's good Campy. Triomphe is an excellent component group. You might want to swap that RD for a Victory LX (and the FD to a Triomphe) to shed that Shimano 105 RD.
-Kurt
$400? A bit on the high side, but you got a nice one in good shape (just make DARN sure that there aren't any stress cracks anywhere). Though not high-end Campy, it's good Campy. Triomphe is an excellent component group. You might want to swap that RD for a Victory LX (and the FD to a Triomphe) to shed that Shimano 105 RD.
-Kurt
... on sale of course : https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac...862696007.html ) with all the pointers as to why I love it so much. Anything could happen in Los Angeles. At this point I would hang on to it for any offers under $800 as anything True blooded Italian with lots of Campy seems to start at out here. Thanks for everyone's help.
Last edited by TomTheBikeDude; 07-25-10 at 08:08 PM.
07-25-10, 08:07 PM
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. Please correct me if I am not correct in my impression of the information on that site.https://www.sheldonbrown.com/vrbn-a-f.html#alan
Great bit of trivia to know here that you added... particularly since I own an Alan now.
PS. I swapped a set of period Dura Ace gears for the 600 when they started making a ticking sound after I cleaned them... still learning my lessons.
Last edited by TomTheBikeDude; 07-25-10 at 08:12 PM.
07-25-10, 09:03 PM
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alans were (still are?) glued and screwed - the tubing and lug have a threaded interface. Alan's have a good reputation for reliability - the nay sayers are often people who confuse the vitus and the alan.
07-25-10, 10:12 PM
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Only weak areas I heard of about Alan frames are the fragile aluminum cable guides and stops on the frame. They dont stand up too well to stress and minor impacts. Seen many frames at ebay with derailleur cable stops that are broken or missing and top tube cable casing guides sheared off or crushed. I guess you have to handle these frames a bit more gently than others. but frankly, I have not heard of tube/lug separation yet with their frames. I would imagine if the glue does fail the tube would still be retained by the mechanical connection between the lug and tube and they will not just pull apart instantly. You should get ample warning with movement and noises coming from the joints before that happens.
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07-26-10, 05:48 AM
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https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac...862696007.html
Really? Whats the world coming to?
Really? Whats the world coming to?
07-26-10, 08:36 AM
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https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac...862696007.html
Really? Whats the world coming to?
Really? Whats the world coming to?
-Kurt
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