atmdad

Earlier this afternoon I went into a Performance bike Shop near my work. Picked up a few items, tubes, tires, rim tape and the little tool to take a free wheel off an old Schwinn wheel. Dude found the tool and I was looking at it and mentioned it really looked like one I already had that was t0o big. Made the purchase anyway and went back to my car, had the wheel in there so I checked the fit of, and sure enough it was what i already had, too big. I go back into the store with the wheel and to get my money back on the tool I didn't need. Dude looks at it and says yea that's an older one we don't have those for sale but I got one here I can take it off for you. So 15 seconds later it's off and he's on the cash register ringing up the return. Hands back the reciept etc and says what I did was rang up the labor charge the same as the return so no money back.

Now, i'm not one to be a dick expecting free stuff and work all the time but come on, I spent $40 bucks and was willing to do it my self if I had the correct tool. I wasn't like I was taking them away from something else, they were just shooting the breeze when I went in. I guess he did cut me a deal, after I quizzically gave him "Are you kidding me", he said normally we charge $10 bucks to do that, and the return was only $6.50. Yea I understand the other side that they can't be doing free work for every Dick and Jane that walks in, but it was just loosening up a flippin freewheel.

Ok, semi-rant over, it's done with. I just want to get off work, have a beer and get back to my project

BengeBoy 

My experience is that this is almost always a mistake.YMMV.

dbakl

Last time I went into a Performance store, the only clerk was standing at the counter chatting it up with what seemed to be racing buds. No problem, I can find my own stuff...

Came to the counter a little while later with an armload of stuff for my many projects. No one to be found. Stood there waiting for 5-10 minutes, but no one ever showed. Left it all on the counter and went somewhere else; never been back. I think they musta gone out to smoke a joint...

atmdad

Pretty much sums it up.

Actually i'm not soliciting opinions as stated in the title.

Oldpeddaller

See your point, but you got the freewheel removed and it was a bit cheaper than the labour charge, so they were trying to help. If he'd given you the refund then offered to remove it then you'd still have no removal tool and it would have cost £3.50 more. They might have done it for free, but on the other hand that would have effectively meant a 25% discount on your purchases. I don't know anything about the US bicycle market but in the UK the margins are currently a lot less than that - 5 to 10%. I'd expect to pay my LBS £5 to remove a freewheel, which I think is nearer to $10, so you still got a good deal IMHO. That makes it cost effective to do what you tried to do - buy the tool! Wish I could find a remover for those old style splined Maillard freewheels over here, just about every rear wheel I touch nowadays seems to have one on!

atmdad

Yea, I get all that. I'm just used to the LBS near my home that I usually go to. I've brought in other wheels to get take off the free wheel, forks to pull off the bottom race, simple chit that needs a specialty tool I don't have. Whenever i ask how much they never charge although I will usually purchase something. I guess it might go back to the fact that i've spent close to $3 K on new bikes there over the years

bobbycorno

Or not. I chose "my" LBS 12 years ago when I moved here: I was new in town (2 days maybe), out riding my mtb and kept bottoming out the bumper fork. Dropped by this shop to see if I could get some advice, talked to an even-older-than-me guy (who turned out to be part owner), he took my bike in back, spent probably 20 minutes working on it, swapped out some parts in the bumper stack, and charged me exactly zero. He didn't know me from Adam, and I hadn't spent one penny in his shop. Guess where I go first when I need bike or xc ski stuff. Some folks actually understand that good (or in this case exemplary) customer service is just plain good business.

SP
Bend, OR

...and if you're ever in town, the only shop I'll EVER recommend is Sunnyside Sports.

cudak888 

Free handouts...free handouts.

Both bike shops and hobbyists with tons of freewheel tools have a right to be irritated when every cyclist in town wants their freewheel removed for nothing.

I know that I haven't recouped a dime off of every freewheel tool I've purchased, yet, my whole set (with exception to the Atom tool) has been worn down and sometimes broken (generally the Suntour 2-prongs or Shimano splined) by all the bottom-feeders in town nagging me for free freewheel removals.

Yes, you did strike a nerve. Nevertheless, the shop mechanic should have made it darn well clear to you that he was going to charge you for the freewheel removal, beforehand.

-Kurt

1nterceptor

I think you got a fair deal.

Chombi

Pretty much expect that from a "big box" bike shop like Performance. Freebies usually come from your smaller neighborhood LBSs. As most big stores, the "personal touch" will be a rare thing passed to the owner because of narrower profit margins driven by volume.
Heck, Performance even charges me for the little crimped-on cable caps everytime. I just pretty much have accepted that as matter of fact with Performance, so it doesn't bother me at all. Anyway, you cannot really demand for freebies, and they don't really owe anyone one.
Try a smaller shop next time and you MIGHT be able to get some freebies once in a while but do follow up with some customer loyalty to support them in the future, as it becomes a give and take thing that enhances you relationship with them. You'll be surprised how they will remember you if you do enough business with them. Recently got a handfull of brass spoke nipples from an LBS when I went back to them after they shorted me a couple by accident. the shop manager's hand just went in their box of brass nipples and handed me like 15 to 20 nipples with an apology for the mistake. They even threw in a few spare SS DT DB spokes in my bag in the visit previous to that!
Now they see me regularly for most parts and service needs I have.

Chombi

atmdad

That's probably the main source of my mild annoyance. He did not make it clear he was going to charge me and how much, at least I don't recall that he did. I probably should have expected as much but it hasn't been my experience at the shop I usually frequent. Anyways whats done is done, the free wheel is off, it only cost me $6.50, and it is almost beer-thirty.

RobE30

My LBS (Mennonite shop, only one guy) charges me $5 to true a wheel and does it on the spot vs $18-$25 @ one of the bigger shops w/ a 2-3day turn around time.... I'm a big fan of helping out the little guys when you can.

SirMike1983 

When I first got the first 3-speed Raleigh I had. The first place I took it was the Bicycle Pro Shop in Georgetown. I had no experience on 3-speeds (only on ballooners), so I figured I'd get it done right. Pro Shop had been around for a long time, so I figured they has some older guys who knew about the bike and how to fix it up. Whoever was there that night (a couple guys in there) wasn't interested in taking it in and fixing it. They basically were interested only in working on newer road bikes, according to the guy. I took it next door to Revolution and they took it in and tuned it right up. It wasn't long after that I began to learn how to work on 3-speeds so I could do a good deal of my own work. For the stuff I didn't have space or tools to do, I kept taking it to Revolution.

The ironic thing is that those two shops are literally next door to each other in Georgetown, but my experience in each was like night and day. Growing up in rural CT we had only one or two shops within driving distance. Both were decent for many years, but in the last 5-10 years or so both have gone downhill dramatically. Unless you're near a major city or cycling area, it's getting hard to find a decent bike shop. The DC/MD/VA area has been much kinder in that regard than CT has been in recent years.

Old Fat Guy

Unless you were a repeat customer of mine, I would charge to take off the freewheel. You never know beforehand how much of a PITA it will be.

Your mistake was not taking the wheel in. Let me repeat, your mistake.

Michael Angelo 

The shop I go to has yet to charge me to remove a freewheel. Maybe cause they know I may help them/ him one day. That said, I know they do have a set charge for that service.

Mike

Fasteryoufool

I use Performance... but when I say that, I mean I USE Performance. I go in there to buy stuff on sale. I buy their store-branded loss-leader tires for $8 or $10, tubes, etc.

I never go in there for service, and there's a reason I don't.

repechage

Saved you the calories.

Free labor is not to be expected. Now, it would have been easy to ask, how much to spin it off if you have the tool? The price would have been named, you could accept it or walk with the refund.
If he had botched the removal, you would have wanted to get things fixed, at their cost, Yes?

I think in this case both sides could have done better, the shop should have advised on a cost before they did the work, that is reasonable. Even at a $60. per hour shop rate, if it indeed only took a minute, a buck for that, then overhead risk, because they probably do botch one up from time to time, tool wear, so $3 to 5 dollars.

From a good customer satisfaction point of view, free would have been good solution. Remember you were dealing with a cog in the machine, an independent shop can make those judgement calls much more easily, but they might be more expensive for the parts too, they are not going to be able to buy stuff for the lowest possible cost every time like a chain can.

This is one reason independent shops are going away.

dbakl

While I'm happy to say, if the shop entered "its a 10 dollar charge to remove a freewheel" the seller made it sound like it was a courtesey.

beech333

Not at my old address. The closest shop to me was snobbish about anything that wasn't greater than 8 speed. I would ride about 90 minutes to another shop to have most of my work done. Occasionally, I would hit up Performance if it was something simple, like removing an odd freewheel.

noglider 

You got a fair deal, but the guy communicated poorly with you. Let it go.

flatraccoon

Yeah, I know the exact tool you needed. I've bought 2 extra "too big" tools because of the same mistake; I was passing by the shop, kind of knew what I needed, and didn't have the wheel with me. Both tools were in those glued boxes, so I would have felt bad trying to return them with the package damaged. $6.50 mistake for not taking in the wheel.

With that said, every single shop I went to in the area did not make me feel at home, nor did they appear friendly. I've been back to a few of them, with the same experiences. Finally, I found the independent "little guy" shop in the Broster/Hipster district. He did have the correct tool, was very friendly, and despite being overpriced, I'll go there again. I'm willing to pay $1.50 for a smile, just like I'm willing to wait in line and avoid those self-checkouts. An enjoyable experience is worth working for. If a shop or experience isn't friendly, I just take note of it, and try to avoid it in the future.

*Needless to say, with all the flea-market wheels I've picked up, the two Wrong Size tools have actually been used, and I'm glad I made the decision not to complain about them.

Grim

Should have said he would remove it for a small fee BEFORE he did the work. He is a BIG fail for not telling you before hand. The right customer service approach would have been to comp it and take the stance "the customer is never wrong".



I ran into a simular situation on a old Schwinn wheel as well at my LBS when I was trying to buy the tool and they were out of stock. I asked if they had any in back of the model I needed. They didn't. The wrench offered to do it for $10. I told him I wanted the tool so that next time I needed it I would have it. and not need to spend another $10 to have them spin it off.

I think the guy was between a rock and hard place mentally on it as the owner was standing next to him. He had this cooking in his head: Take 30 seconds to loosen it and a 1minute to ring it up becaseu the boss is there or should he comp it and what was the boss going to say about doing work for free?

The owner spoke up and decided loosen the hub on the house and ordered me the tool that I paid for in advance.

That's the difference between a LBS and a Chain store. The Chain store is run by people that do not give a crap especially if they are not working on a commission (and sometimes the commission is bad because then they are looking to make a bigger one). The LBS owner wants your repeat business. I was buying bike stuff from this guys parents 30 years ago (he is my age in our mid 40's) when I was a kid. That one event I have knowingly paid a little extra for random parts that I know I could have bought cheaper elsewhere (Performance) and reminded me of his parents taking care of me in the past.

khatfull

Charge a buck. Do it enough and you'll at least make enough money back to replace damaged/worn tools. Anyone who complained about that should really just crawl under a rock.

Before I had a Shimano lockring tool I took a new wheel and cassette into the LBS (not purchased there) where I bought my Cannondale to have the cassette installed. Guy behind the counter just whipped out the tool and said there you go. Well, I know they charge $10 (however exorbitant that might be) for that so I just handed the guy a $5. Don't know if he rung it up or not and I don't care...I paid at least something.

tugrul

What are the two tools in question?

khatfull

This reminds me of something I thought about last time I was in the LBS. I'll never be high dollar profit for them...I do my own wrenching now, I troll eBay and CL for what I want...and most of the parts I want they couldn't provide anyway. I could see myself going in for a BB chase and face if I needed one, maybe headset installation if I had trouble with the homemade tool.

BUT...a lot of friends, family, and acquaintances know I'm into bikes and ask me what they should get and where. If I can tell they're not into self-service like me I'd really like to feel good about sending them to one of the LBSes around here. But, to date, there's only one I would remotely even consider...mainly due to how I've been treated when I've gone in and asked about issues related to my C&V bikes. I know they're interested in selling the latest and greatest but I would think that they might want happy people, no matter who they are, out and about saying good things about them.

I'm a network/computer consultant and my clients range from companies of 5 people to 200 people. Yet, I treat both the same because given the choice I'd rather have 205 people saying good things about me than 200.

I don't know, maybe I'm naive.