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  1. #1
    FBoD Member at Large khatfull's Avatar
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    Shimano Freewheel with Suntour Drivetrain?

    All,

    I got my Fuji Touring Series III from eBay today (will start a separate thread since lots of folks seemingly like my cleaning exploits ). Very dirty, reminiscent of the 85 Club Fuji I worked over, but otherwise in fine shape.

    It has a Suntour 6 speed drivetrain (Mountech FD/RD, 6 speed cluster, 50/45/28 crank). I've read that some folks have used Shimano Hyperglide freewheels to improve the shifting performance over the straight toothed Suntour freewheels. Also, I read that 6 to 7 speed generally isn't a problem, in friction mode of course. I'm 90% sure I'll be using Suntour ratcheting barcons.

    Any truth to this? And yeah, this might be putting the cart before the horse but since I'll be going back to my co-op treasure trove either today or tomorrow I figured I might look for a nice Shimano freewheel is there's any truth to this.

    Oh, and yes, RD alternatives have been examined and explored although the Mountech currently installed is smooth as buttah, for now right?

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    Of course you can swap a Shimano for a Suntour, and a six for a seven, if you feel it's needed. Since you haven't ridden the bike yet, I presume, you may find the shifting is just fine. I believe it's set up with triggers and a flatbar, so you have some work cut out for you before you can actually tell how it works with barcons.

    Both freewheels are suitable for a 126 spacing. Depending on the wheel & frame, you may have to add a spacer or two to the axle so that the freewheel clears the frame, you may have to redish the wheel as well. Trying is the only way to know for sure.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Grim's Avatar
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    You can do it but that bike has a half step crank. You are going to need to pay attention to the gearing if you want to actually half step shift. Otherwise you may have some gears that and near duplicates. Play around with Sheldon's calculator some. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
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  4. #4
    Fuji Fan beech333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
    Since you haven't ridden the bike yet, I presume, you may find the shifting is just fine.

    +1 Try the bike as is, other than the flat bar setup. I've never had an issue with Suntour freewheels.
    Seeking a 165mm Sugino Super Mighty track crankset.

  5. #5
    soonerbills soonerbills's Avatar
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    Here is a cool video on Hyperglide

    http://bike.shimano.com/publish/cont...echnology.html

  6. #6
    FBoD Member at Large khatfull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
    Of course you can swap a Shimano for a Suntour, and a six for a seven, if you feel it's needed. Since you haven't ridden the bike yet, I presume, you may find the shifting is just fine. I believe it's set up with triggers and a flatbar, so you have some work cut out for you before you can actually tell how it works with barcons. Both freewheels are suitable for a 126 spacing. Depending on the wheel & frame, you may have to add a spacer or two to the axle so that the freewheel clears the frame, you may have to redish the wheel as well. Trying is the only way to know for sure.
    Yep, most of the parts are already assembled or in transit...bars being the last and I think I have a line on them too. I'll have everything by the time I'm through cleaning it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grim View Post
    You can do it but that bike has a half step crank. You are going to need to pay attention to the gearing if you want to actually half step shift. Otherwise you may have some gears that and near duplicates. Play around with Sheldon's calculator some. http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gears/
    I've never ridden with half step and my plan is to go to Biopace rings (yeah, I'm a freak who likes them and thinks there's a difference, even if it is psychological ) so I might ultimately end up with a 48/38/28 or a 52/42/28 after I spend an evening with Sheldon's gear calculator.

    Quote Originally Posted by beech333 View Post
    +1 Try the bike as is, other than the flat bar setup. I've never had an issue with Suntour freewheels.
    Agreed, I will do so. I just like to plan ahead (and have another excuse to go to the co-op and dig through bins). Check this out:





    That's one of two bins of RDs...there's also one or two bins of about every other drivetrain component you can think of.

    Wouldn't you like any excuse to go dig around down there?

  7. #7
    PanGalacticGargleBlaster Zaphod Beeblebrox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khatfull View Post
    It has a Suntour 6 speed drivetrain (Mountech FD/RD, 6 speed cluster, 50/45/28 crank). I've read that some folks have used Shimano Hyperglide freewheels to improve the shifting performance over the straight toothed Suntour freewheels. Also, I read that 6 to 7 speed generally isn't a problem, in friction mode of course. I'm 90% sure I'll be using Suntour ratcheting barcons.
    I use hyperglide freehweels on both my 7 speed setups (one indexed, one friction w/ Suntour racheting Barcons) and they are fine.

    6 to 7 speed should be fine in your case since the bike has at least 126mm spacing. I'll put in a good word for Shimano SL indexed shifters. They work great with those HG cassettes. The mountech derailleur could even be made to index with a 7 speed if its got a barrell adjuster on the derailleur body.
    --Don't Panic.

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    I think I have a couple of sets of Suntour barcons laying around.

    The co-op looks like a less organized version of my garage.

  9. #9
    soonerbills soonerbills's Avatar
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    Those Mountech drails, ain't they the ones I heard are bad on the jockey wheels or pivot spring go bad fast or something?
    How might a Hyperglide work with a old style Crane derail? I'm running a Suntour 6 speed with one now and wonder if it might behoove me to swap to the Hyper!

  10. #10
    FBoD Member at Large khatfull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Fat Guy View Post
    I think I have a couple of sets of Suntour barcons laying around.

    The co-op looks like a less organized version of my garage.
    I have two sets myself...found both on local CL...cleaned in the ultrasonic, relubed, and nicely refinished.

    It really is like a dungeon down there...very dim lighting, water dripping from the odd pipe, smells musty...but there's a whole ton of C&V interesting stuff...and they charge really decent prices for things. I'm quite sure your garage is MUCH nicer

  11. #11
    FBoD Member at Large khatfull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by soonerbills View Post
    Those Mountech drails, ain't they the ones I heard are bad on the jockey wheels or pivot spring go bad fast or something?
    How might a Hyperglide work with a old style Crane derail? I'm running a Suntour 6 speed with one now and wonder if it might behoove me to swap to the Hyper!
    The rear yes, the front is pretty much like any front. I got a Mountech with a bent cage at the co-op for a buck just to disassemble it to see how unservicable they really are. The "advertised" problems are real. You'd have to keep it very clean I think for it to have any longevity at all.

  12. #12
    FBoD Member at Large khatfull's Avatar
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    I should add too...

    The reason I wonder about this at all is when I went from a 6-speed Uniglide drivetrain to a 7-speed Hyperglide drivetrain on the Tiara it was like night and day in the smoothness and crispness of shifting. Both indexed but when I hit a click on the shifter now it just goes BANG into gear. Period. On the Uniglide there was always that tad of noise before the cogs grabbed the chain. The 6-speed shifting was accurate and I had no issue with it...it's just that the smoothness of the Hyperglide was very apparant to me right from the start.

  13. #13
    sultan of schwinn EjustE's Avatar
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    If you can pull it off (with your RD), a widely spaced hyperglide megarange 7sp would be great with that half step and granny. Hill eater
    -E

    still stuck in the '80s; '70s were good as well, but i severely dislike tubulars.
    I tri...

  14. #14
    Old fart JohnDThompson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khatfull View Post
    I just like to plan ahead (and have another excuse to go to the co-op and dig through bins). Check this out:



    That's one of two bins of RDs...there's also one or two bins of about every other drivetrain component you can think of.

    Wouldn't you like any excuse to go dig around down there?
    Make sure your tetanus shot is up-to-date...

  15. #15
    FBoD Member at Large khatfull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
    Make sure your tetanus shot is up-to-date...
    Oddly, it is. My daughter owns a horse. Stabled in a barn. Stuff on floor. 'Nuff said...

  16. #16
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    I'm trying to figure out what information you were asking for in your original post. At first I thought that you wanted to know if Shimano HG actually works better than Suntour, but now you've said that you've used Shimano HG and you are aware of how well it works. I'm confused. Did you really just want to post pictures of your local co-op. If so, that's okay with me.

  17. #17
    Death fork? Naaaah!! top506's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khatfull View Post



    I've never ridden with half step and my plan is to go to Biopace rings (yeah, I'm a freak who likes them and thinks there's a difference, even if it is psychological ) so I might ultimately end up with a 48/38/28 or a 52/42/28 after I spend an evening with Sheldon's gear calculator.


    Both my Biopace road triples are 50-38-28. You might have to scrounge a little to find the 50t. And it's a 110/74 BCD set-up.
    Top
    Last edited by top506; 07-27-10 at 09:06 PM.
    You know it's going to be a good day when the stem and seatpost come right out.

  18. #18
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Yes, I think a Hyperglide freewheel will be an improvement over a SunTour freewheel in any case. Also, get a Hyperglide chain.
    Please email me rather than sending me a private message. My address is noglider@pobox.com

    Tom Reingold
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  19. #19
    FBoD Member at Large khatfull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    I'm trying to figure out what information you were asking for in your original post. At first I thought that you wanted to know if Shimano HG actually works better than Suntour, but now you've said that you've used Shimano HG and you are aware of how well it works. I'm confused. Did you really just want to post pictures of your local co-op. If so, that's okay with me.
    Well, the co-op pics are fun in any case, yes

    But what I was asking (in an admittedly roundabout way) is can a HG freewheel be used with the Suntour DT and would I see as much difference as I did going from Uniglide to Hyperglide. I think the consensus is I'd see a difference but I should definitely try the Suntour freewheel first, which I will.

    noglider: I have a NOS HG70 chain in hand that I got local on CL for $8. Have that covered.

    top: Thanks, I forgot about the 50T 110BCD (I do have your PM about the Biopace rings, thanks). That would work very nicely. The 38 and 28 are easy to find. Do you see any difference between the steel and aluminum rings?

  20. #20
    Senior Member Grim's Avatar
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    I need to hit my local CoOp (well not so local it is almost a 40 mile round trip) and see if I can find a few parts. I would LOVE to find some bar ends and a late 80's 105 rear brake. I think I am just going to service the bearings on the crusty Dave Scott and ride the crap out of it till something falls off (and hopefully that will not be me).
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  21. #21
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    The Hyperglide freewheel will be a big improvement even without the HG chain. All of my geared bikes now have Shimano freewheels and cassettes, but I don't think I own a single Shimano chain.

  22. #22
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    The Hyperglide freewheel will be a big improvement even without the HG chain. All of my geared bikes now have Shimano freewheels and cassettes, but I don't think I own a single Shimano chain.
    That's true, although I find that a Hyperglide chain (or, I suppose, any chain of a similar shape) makes a further improvement. I recently did an experiment which showed this. My Super Course had a Suntour freewheel and a Sedisport chain. I changed the freewheel to a Shimano and felt a dramatic improvement in shifting. Then I changed the chain to a Shimano and felt yet another improvement.
    Please email me rather than sending me a private message. My address is noglider@pobox.com

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  23. #23
    What??? Only 2 wheels? jimmuller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by khatfull View Post
    But what I was asking (in an admittedly roundabout way) is can a HG freewheel be used with the Suntour DT
    I've been using DuraAce DT levers with Vx derailleurs and a ProCompe freewheel for a long time and haven't had a matter/anti-matter reaction yet. Of course there is always the chance a stray neutrino might come through and stick, and then who knows what may happen?
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  24. #24
    Member sokito's Avatar
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    I've used 6speed shimano 600 freewheel (uniglide I think) with suntour alpha 6 speed index system. I noted that they used slightly different spacing (something like 0.3mm difference?) but it indexed just fine...

  25. #25
    FBoD Member at Large khatfull's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EjustE View Post
    If you can pull it off (with your RD), a widely spaced hyperglide megarange 7sp would be great with that half step and granny. Hill eater
    Hey -E,

    Were you thinking something like this:



    13-15-17-19-21-24-34

    Or like the more standard 14-28?

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