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Old 07-29-10, 07:51 AM   #1
themba
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Please help me identify this steal frame..

Hi all..
Thankyou in advance for you help.I would love to identify this bike.
Its my latest project. its a steal frame bike i found in terrible condition and i am still working on.. hence the crooked saddle and mismatched rims and tires. I striped it down (nitromors, then sand paper), removed the rust, resprayed, recabled and polished up so far.

I have a feeling it is British as people have commented on the wrap over seat stay claiming its an english trait and the drop bars have made in England stamped on them.. not exactly concrete evidence.
Any input would be welcome and constructive criticism and directional suggestions are welcome too.

The numbers off the frame are:
bottom bracket: 5487653
nr drop out: A5387

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Old 07-29-10, 07:52 AM   #2
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bottom bracket

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Old 07-29-10, 08:31 AM   #3
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nice looking paint scheme. the colors remind me of Motobecane. the luggs look a bit unusual
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Old 07-29-10, 08:44 AM   #4
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Looks like a Raleigh Grand Prix. But listen, stealing is wrong, no matter how you rationalize it.
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Old 07-29-10, 08:56 AM   #5
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Looks like a Raleigh Grand Prix. But listen, stealing is wrong, no matter how you rationalize it.
I was trying to think of a tactful way to say it. Thanks, Tom.
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Old 07-29-10, 11:09 AM   #6
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There has been a rash of members stealing frames lately. Maybe we need to do background checks. At least they are only stealing steel frames.
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Old 07-29-10, 11:47 AM   #7
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There has been a rash of members stealing frames lately. Maybe we need to do background checks. At least they are only stealing steel frames.
A steely resolve is requisite to stealing a steady steel steed.
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Old 07-29-10, 01:02 PM   #8
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OK, but I can't type either!

Any badge fitting holes in the head tube? If so, how far apart are they? Are there any markings on the steerer tube?

At present I'm thinking it's a Carlton or similar although it might be a Holdsworth - built Claud Butler. Nah, Carlton, Sun, Falcon, Viking most probably - Tube Investments period, or a Raleigh. Lots of similar frames were built badged as different makes if so. Stamped serial number on drop-out and tubular wrap round seat stays makes me think this. Lovely paint scheme, by the way.

Can anyone decipher the serial number (decode it I mean)?

Last edited by Oldpeddaller; 07-29-10 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Missed a few words
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Old 07-29-10, 01:09 PM   #9
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My guess would be early seventies Raleigh Grand Prix. Here is a pic that I have of one and the frame looks to be very similar.

Hope this is a help.

RaleighGPLargeFullSideRight..jpg
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Old 07-29-10, 01:10 PM   #10
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Newbie, please don't take it personally. It is all in good fun.
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Old 07-29-10, 02:04 PM   #11
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It's truthfully hard to tell, because it looks like it could be a repaint, but maybe not. The paint job and fork crowns match almost spot on with good mid-70's Motobecane's (Grand Tourer or Grand Record) except the lugs, stamped dropouts, cottered cranks, and seatstay bridge tell me almost definitely not...

This is an image of the 1974 Grand Record:



As I said before, paint job matches but seatstay bridge doesn't match, and the stamped dropouts give me reasons to doubt. Maybe a lower-level Motobecane?

Edit: Read on before you respond to this post. Conclusion is it's obviously not a Moto, so please don't respond by saying "It's not a Motobecane." Thanks but we know that...

Last edited by Maddox; 07-29-10 at 02:25 PM. Reason: Read on.
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Old 07-29-10, 02:13 PM   #12
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Also, cable routing is not correct. Almost all the Motos of the era, including the Grand Record and Grand Jubile, had clamp on cable guides, not brazed TT guides like on OP's.
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Old 07-29-10, 02:18 PM   #13
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Closeup of Raleigh Grand Prix's seatstay bridge:



Looks like you have a Raleigh Grand Prix which has been repainted to mimic a 1974-76 Motobecane Grand Record. This would explain cable routing, stamped dropouts, different seatstay bridge, different lug details, cottered cranks, and why your "Grand Record-looking bike" doesn't have decals or headbadge.
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Old 07-29-10, 02:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddox View Post
It's truthfully hard to tell, because it looks like it could be a repaint, but maybe not. The paint job and fork crowns match almost spot on with good mid-70's Motobecane's (Grand Tourer or Grand Record) except the lugs, stamped dropouts, cottered cranks, and seatstay bridge tell me almost definitely not...
I believe the OP stated he repainted the bike. noglider had this one from the get-go.
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Old 07-29-10, 02:19 PM   #15
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It's not a Motobecane. It's a 70's Raleigh Grand Prix with a Motobecane-inspired paint scheme.
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Old 07-29-10, 02:22 PM   #16
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I believe the OP stated he repainted the bike.
Ah...I overlooked that part. I just saw the part about "dealing with rust", which I took to mean rubbing off the rough parts and maybe doing some touch up.

If OP went with "original" inspiration on the black/red paint job, he did a pretty good job mimicking a Moto.
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Old 07-29-10, 02:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noglider View Post
It's not a Motobecane. It's a 70's Raleigh Grand Prix with a Motobecane-inspired paint scheme.
Which is what I said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maddox View Post
Looks like you have a Raleigh Grand Prix which has been repainted to mimic a 1974-76 Motobecane Grand Record.

Last edited by Maddox; 07-29-10 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 07-29-10, 03:19 PM   #18
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Which is what I said:
I said it first!
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Old 09-24-10, 06:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldpeddaller View Post
OK, but I can't type either!

Any badge fitting holes in the head tube? If so, how far apart are they? Are there any markings on the steerer tube?

At present I'm thinking it's a Carlton or similar although it might be a Holdsworth - built Claud Butler. Nah, Carlton, Sun, Falcon, Viking most probably - Tube Investments period, or a Raleigh. Lots of similar frames were built badged as different makes if so. Stamped serial number on drop-out and tubular wrap round seat stays makes me think this. Lovely paint scheme, by the way.

Can anyone decipher the serial number (decode it I mean)?
the serial number looks a bit too long for a holdsworth - thougth they were 6 digits at themost?
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Old 09-24-10, 07:34 AM   #20
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Serial number doesn't fit the headbadge's Raleigh database:
http://www.jaysmarine.com/TH_raleigh_serials.html
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Old 09-27-10, 06:50 AM   #21
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and the seatwrap over on my mistral is quite flat...as you can see before it got it's new paint
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