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Old 07-30-10, 04:12 PM   #1
Epicus07
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Steel Guerciotti (picture heavy)

I bought this gem a few weeks ago and haven't done anything with it yet. These are just the preliminary pictures before i strip it down, clean it up and rebuild it.

I'm not crazy about the shimano but the frame is beautiful and the only thing i regret is not being able to touch up the chipped paint. I still love her though.

Help me ID her. Internal cable routing puts her in the 1990's based on the 80's Guerciotti catalogs I've looked through. I've tried contacting all the shops i could find that sold Guerciotti in the 90's and Guerciotti itself. Only one guy had a guess and he was thinking it was a 96 SLX model.

Columbus stamped the drop out so I would imagine it is some variety of Columbus tubing. There is also a Cinelli symbol stamped in the bottom bracket shell.

Thoughts? comments? value?

Thanks and Enjoy

non-drive side (picture turned out better)










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Old 07-30-10, 04:24 PM   #2
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Gorgeous.

How about a drive side pic please?

Is she all Shimano tri-color 600?
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Old 07-30-10, 04:35 PM   #3
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absolutely fabulous
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Old 07-30-10, 04:53 PM   #4
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this must have been painted by "Dosenna Carlo" (or Carlo Dosenna we'd say)...there may be a small signature decal saying that, but maybe not. Anyway, it's a great looking frame. Yes, Cinelli "spoiler" BB and might be SLX, check the bottoms of the 2 main tubes next time you have the BB open.
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Old 07-30-10, 05:16 PM   #5
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You are correct. There is in fact a decal on the bottom of the down tube saying that it was painted by Dosenna Carlo.

Full shimano 600 tri color from the hubs to the headset.

Everything functions beautifully except the right shifter that needs to be cleaned out. I know a guy with a lot of experience rebuilding vintage shimano sti shifters who will do it for $30.

I'll post some more pictures after i rebuild it. I wish the pictures did it justice.

here is a bad pic of the drive side.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4091/...df56ff6a_b.jpg

and here you can kind of see the stylish "brake bridge"

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/...4445cdc8_b.jpg

thanks for the compliments.
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Old 07-30-10, 07:25 PM   #6
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I absolutely stinking hate you with all the fiber of my being.

Seriously though, I'll tell you why: I own one. An EL-tubed Gooch with that same paint scheme; mine has a dark black base as opposed to the purple. About two years ago, a 72-year old Mario Andretti-wannabe did it in with his Mercedes CLK 230.

I can't bear to trash the frame.

-Kurt
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Old 07-30-10, 07:37 PM   #7
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I absolutely stinking hate you with all the fiber of my being.

Seriously though, I'll tell you why: I own one. An EL-tubed Gooch with that same paint scheme; mine has a dark black base as opposed to the purple. About two years ago, a 72-year old Mario Andretti-wannabe did it in with his Mercedes CLK 230.

I can't bear to trash the frame.

-Kurt
Did you post it under jaysmarine or something ? It was gorgeous and far better looking than mine. I was jealous. I am truely sorry for your loss.
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Old 07-30-10, 09:27 PM   #8
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Did you post it under jaysmarine or something ? It was gorgeous and far better looking than mine. I was jealous. I am truely sorry for your loss.
Your purple scheme is fantastic, please don't underestimate it. I'd give my right arm to have another one, regardless of base color. Mine was tri-color 600 as well:



I prefer your traditional wheelset.

-Kurt
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Old 07-30-10, 11:05 PM   #9
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Your purple scheme is fantastic, please don't underestimate it. I'd give my right arm to have another one, regardless of base color. Mine was tri-color 600 as well:



I prefer your traditional wheelset.

-Kurt
I do love the purple. It just needs a rebuild with new housing and thorough cleaning.
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Old 07-30-10, 11:09 PM   #10
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Fantastic.
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Old 07-31-10, 02:44 PM   #11
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This thread finally motivated me to take some shots of my bike. Also motivated me to post something after much lurking.

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Old 07-31-10, 04:39 PM   #12
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This thread finally motivated me to take some shots of my bike. Also motivated me to post something after much lurking.

Sweet bike.

Deserves its own thread so you can tell us all about it when you get a chance!
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Old 07-31-10, 04:46 PM   #13
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Sweet bike.

Deserves its own thread so you can tell us all about it when you get a chance!
+1 there arent enough good guerciotti pictures / info out there.

Update on mine: Bill Davidson confirmed that the tubing is columbus but without dropping the fork or pulling the bottom bracket i wont know what type. Czar importers still think its a 1996 SLX. The ID hunt continues
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Old 07-31-10, 06:12 PM   #14
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This thread finally motivated me to take some shots of my bike. Also motivated me to post something after much lurking.
Beautiful. That looks like oversized lugged tubing, isn't it?

-Kurt

P.S.: I note the OP's bike, despite being oversized tubing, has Paulo Guerciotti seat stay caps, while mine has filleted joints. Interesting. If yochris' frame is EL as well, that's yet another variant, considering the TT cable guides.
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Old 07-31-10, 07:11 PM   #15
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Thanks guys. I gleaned a lot of info from C&V while I was researching this build so it's nice to share it!


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Beautiful. That looks like oversized lugged tubing, isn't it?

-Kurt

P.S.: I note the OP's bike, despite being oversized tubing, has Paulo Guerciotti seat stay caps, while mine has filleted joints. Interesting. If yochris' frame is EL as well, that's yet another variant, considering the TT cable guides.
Not entirely sure to be honest but I believe so. I haven't quite pinpointed the year but I put it at about an '87 or '84 GLX judging by the catalog info. I know that they didn't offer the solid color paint in '85 but there is no '86 catalog up on that site so that's a possibility also. The measurements match those of the '87 GLX but i'm guessing that those didn't change too much from year to year. Mine also has Paulo Guerciotti seat stay caps.
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Old 07-31-10, 08:11 PM   #16
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Not entirely sure to be honest but I believe so. I haven't quite pinpointed the year but I put it at about an '87 or '84 GLX judging by the catalog info. I know that they didn't offer the solid color paint in '85 but there is no '86 catalog up on that site so that's a possibility also. The measurements match those of the '87 GLX but i'm guessing that those didn't change too much from year to year. Mine also has Paulo Guerciotti seat stay caps.
A GLX would essentially mean that it's built from SLX tubing; just as the GL is built from SL. Take a caliper and measure the diameter of the downtube and the top tube. If SL or SLX, the top tube will be 1" in diameter, and the downtube 1-1/8". If EL tubing, the top tube will be 1-1/8", and the downtube 1-1/4".

If you eyeball this photo closely, you'll see the difference in diameter in comparison to the conventionally-sized Raleigh USA:



-Kurt
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Old 07-31-10, 08:20 PM   #17
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Kurt

Seeing your Guerciotti in these pics makes me realize what a loss this must have been for you.

That was a very special bike, the kind you don't see so often.
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Old 07-31-10, 09:51 PM   #18
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I don't have a caliper so i used a cm soft tape measure to get the circumference which got me the diameter and converted to inches.

My top tube is about 1.19 in diameter instead of 1.125 (1 1/8) and down tube is 1.30 in instead of 1.25(1 1/4)

Still sounds like the measurements are closer to EL than SLX.

My measurements aren't dead on and i used the internets for the diameter calculation.

Any thoughts Kurt?
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Old 07-31-10, 10:51 PM   #19
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Seeing your Guerciotti in these pics makes me realize what a loss this must have been for you.

That was a very special bike, the kind you don't see so often.
Indeed. Thing is, the striking looks are (were?) not the only part to that bike. I've never ridden a steel frame quite like it. It had that responsiveness of a rock-hard aluminum frame - without the rock-hard feel. That oversized EL tubing turns a frame into a rocketship.

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My top tube is about 1.19 in diameter instead of 1.125 (1 1/8) and down tube is 1.30 in instead of 1.25(1 1/4)

Still sounds like the measurements are closer to EL than SLX.

My measurements aren't dead on and i used the internets for the diameter calculation.

Any thoughts Kurt?
Without question, Columbus EL-OS - with a couple of coats of paint on top of it. You have a special machine there.

Come to think of it, I see a pattern: Early Gooch EL-OS's have top tube cable guides. Later ones use internal TT cable routing. Even later than that, the Paulo Guerciotti seatstay caps were dropped in favor of filleted joints to the back of the seattube. It looks as if my frame is a bit later than I thought.

-Kurt

P.S.: Has anyone noticed that the Guerciotti EL-OS frames and De Rosa's EL-OS Primatos look quite similar? Not identical, but there are quite a few near-identical features, the most glaring of which is the position and castings used for the top tube cable stops. The castings are identical (same supplier?), and the position of the stops are as well. Lugs don't add up. Both are, however, amongst the few EL-OS frames that use Campagnolo 1010B dropouts.
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Old 07-31-10, 11:06 PM   #20
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I imagine $500 wasn't a phenomenal deal but considering that other bikes in the price range don't compare i am exceptionally happy I'm strongly resisting the urge to upgrade it.

Sadly the 3T stem has to go. Its beautiful but too low and too long for my liking. I will probably do this first because the ride would probably be better if my saddle wasn't pushed all the way forward.
Second, the saddle was free but certainly too wide and frumpy for my needs.
Third...If i can afford it I will buy some new custom wheels for the Roubaix and give 'Ciotti the Mavic Aksiums. In the mean time i really enjoy the FIR EA 65's w/ Shimano 600 hubs.

Eventually i will switch it all over to 10 speed to drop some weight and give it the great shifter hand feel i'm craving.

In the mean time it would probably benefit from new cables, housing, grease and TLC.

Thanks for the info Kurt!

For everyone else reading. POST YOUR GUERCIOTTI pics.
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Old 07-31-10, 11:13 PM   #21
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I imagine $500 wasn't a phenomenal deal but considering that other bikes in the price range don't compare i am exceptionally happy I'm strongly resisting the urge to upgrade it.
As a matter of fact, any EL-OS bike that can be snagged for under $800 is usually considered a bargain. That's another reason why I'm pissed about my own Gooch.

I had a momentary flash of joy when I discovered a Molteni Merckx MX-Leader at one of the local bike shops (built as a fixie no less - can you say "hopping mad?" ), but it ain't for sale. Granted, it did have a very odd 3" seattube extension above the seatlug. Other than that oddity, it looked just about like this:



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For everyone else reading. POST YOUR GUERCIOTTI pics.
Preferably EL's

I'd post the four I've owned in the past, but they were boring SL and SLX editions of meh quality.

Tell you the truth, I'm not that big on Guerciottis - I've seen tons with dubious build quality - but the EL-OS frames don't appear to be from the same builder/source. They're phenomenal by comparison.

-Kurt
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Old 07-31-10, 11:22 PM   #22
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As a matter of fact, any EL-OS bike that can be snagged for under $800 is usually considered a bargain. That's another reason why I'm pissed about my own Gooch.

I had a momentary flash of joy when I discovered a Molteni Merckx MX-Leader at one of the local bike shops (built as a fixie no less - can you say "hopping mad?" ), but it ain't for sale. Granted, it did have a very odd 3" seattube extension above the seatlug. Other than that oddity, it looked just about like this:





Preferably EL's

I'd post the four I've owned in the past, but they were boring SL and SLX editions of meh quality.

Tell you the truth, I'm not that big on Guerciottis - I've seen tons with dubious build quality - but the EL-OS frames don't appear to be from the same builder/source. They're phenomenal by comparison.

-Kurt
I remember reading about really shotty quality guerciottis on Sheldon's website but my experiences have been really good. This Ciotti is my second. The first was a beautiful 1985 screwed and glued fire forged aluminum track bike. Super fast and really light. I ended up selling it but still look back on it fondly. I did see one if its cousins scheduled for scrapping due to a cracked headtube :O

If i ever see another EL for sale i'll shoot you a PM what size are you? (not likely but stranger things have happened).

3' seattube extension? that sounds horrid.
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Old 07-31-10, 11:26 PM   #23
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Kurt, whats the saddle on the Raleigh USA?
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Old 07-31-10, 11:29 PM   #24
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I remember reading about really shotty quality guerciottis on Sheldon's website but my experiences have been really good. This Ciotti is my second. The first was a beautiful 1985 screwed and glued fire forged aluminum track bike. Super fast and really light. I ended up selling it but still look back on it fondly. I did see one if its cousins scheduled for scrapping due to a cracked headtube :O
I can't bring myself to consider the ALAN-contract frames true Guerciottis. It's the quality of their steel machines from the late '70s and early '80s that gets under my skin. Things improved in 1984; my guess is that they sourced a different builder.

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If i ever see another EL for sale i'll shoot you a PM what size are you? (not likely but stranger things have happened).

3' seattube extension? that sounds horrid.
56-60cm center to top ST. I usually can't take 56cm's, but the oversized EL tubing and the fact that I usually build such a bike with aero levers and brifters usually means enough wiggle room to get it to fit well, and still look good.

Yes. Straight out of the lug, up to a second brazed-on sleeve binder. Come to think of it, I think it MIGHT have had two binder bolts (!). I'll go back there and snap a picture of the weird thing sometime. It's still striking, like it or not.

-Kurt
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Old 07-31-10, 11:31 PM   #25
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Kurt, whats the saddle on the Raleigh USA?
The ever BMX-hipsterish-looking Iscaselle Targa:









They're an acquired taste, but I find them no less palatable than a Concor Supercorsa. More comfortable, anyway. Seems to suit the Competition.

-Kurt
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