I fell in love with a Ciocc and I didn't even know her name
08-08-10, 04:36 AM
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I fell in love with a Ciocc and I didn't even know her name
Hello Everyone,
About a year ago I decided to start riding again after years of being out of the saddle. Some friends of mine were riding fancy single speeds and though it was not at all what I was used to, growing up on "10 speeds", the thought of one was intriguing. I didn't want just another store bought fixie. So I started reading and looking, for something that I wasn't quite sure what it was yet. I pored through Sheldon Brown's site daily, with new questions that cropped up from the answers I'd gotten the day before. And THIS site, are you kidding? If I said I got lost here it would imply that I found my way out (which happily I have not)!
I went to a bunch of my local bike stores and thrift stores, read Craig's List saw tons of bikes but none of them seemed right. Until last month on eBay when the warm red and chrome of a beat up old Ciocc frame caught my eye.
I'm sure I paid too much for her, but I don't really care. This bike is terrific, chipped paint, rust and all. The problem is, of course, that she is not nor ever should be a fixie. So I'm going to build her up and I'd like to use period appropriate parts, brakes and derailleurs, etc. I've tried the best I could to date/model but the best I can come up with is late 80's early 90's "Road Bike".
Can you guys please help me to figure out what she is and what components I should be looking for?
Besides the pictures there's not much else I know about it. I don't know if the BB is original. The seat tube is 27.2mm, rear wheel spacing is 128mm, it will accommodate 700c wheels and has two sets of water bottle bosses.
Thank you!!
About a year ago I decided to start riding again after years of being out of the saddle. Some friends of mine were riding fancy single speeds and though it was not at all what I was used to, growing up on "10 speeds", the thought of one was intriguing. I didn't want just another store bought fixie. So I started reading and looking, for something that I wasn't quite sure what it was yet. I pored through Sheldon Brown's site daily, with new questions that cropped up from the answers I'd gotten the day before. And THIS site, are you kidding? If I said I got lost here it would imply that I found my way out (which happily I have not)!
I went to a bunch of my local bike stores and thrift stores, read Craig's List saw tons of bikes but none of them seemed right. Until last month on eBay when the warm red and chrome of a beat up old Ciocc frame caught my eye.
I'm sure I paid too much for her, but I don't really care. This bike is terrific, chipped paint, rust and all. The problem is, of course, that she is not nor ever should be a fixie. So I'm going to build her up and I'd like to use period appropriate parts, brakes and derailleurs, etc. I've tried the best I could to date/model but the best I can come up with is late 80's early 90's "Road Bike".
Can you guys please help me to figure out what she is and what components I should be looking for?
Besides the pictures there's not much else I know about it. I don't know if the BB is original. The seat tube is 27.2mm, rear wheel spacing is 128mm, it will accommodate 700c wheels and has two sets of water bottle bosses.
Thank you!!
Last edited by Adamant Finn; 08-08-10 at 04:40 AM.
08-08-10, 06:12 AM
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Campagnolo Nuovo record and Super Record...preferably with panto. Cinelli stem and bars. I'd go with a Concorde or Turbo for the saddle. I'd use Mavic open pros for the rims.
Just so you're aware, you'll EASILY be dropping $1,000 to build this up correctly.
If you're not concerned with making it original, I'd respace the rear to 130mm...keep checking Craigslist for a donor bike...and get something with a Shimano 105 group...or Campagnolo if you can get it.
I just posted these photos in the De Rosa thread, but I'm betting they'll help you:
Just so you're aware, you'll EASILY be dropping $1,000 to build this up correctly.
If you're not concerned with making it original, I'd respace the rear to 130mm...keep checking Craigslist for a donor bike...and get something with a Shimano 105 group...or Campagnolo if you can get it.
I just posted these photos in the De Rosa thread, but I'm betting they'll help you:
08-08-10, 06:48 AM
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nice looking frame. I see a Columbus decal but can't read it. I am not sure if Coicc actually had frame names but if they did some one will be along soon who does. the first thing I would do with that is giving it a sponge bath and good rinse. the a good coat of a nice paste auto wax to make her shine.
yes as Aron says build it with period Campi (or anything will be pricy) but it will be alot of fun. look through the ISO trade section and oyu can find most of what you need. and don't forget about Campi Victory and Triomphe. not the greatest stuff but sometimes you can get good deals on it.
yes as Aron says build it with period Campi (or anything will be pricy) but it will be alot of fun. look through the ISO trade section and oyu can find most of what you need. and don't forget about Campi Victory and Triomphe. not the greatest stuff but sometimes you can get good deals on it.
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
08-08-10, 06:54 AM
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nice looking frame. I see a Columbus decal but can't read it. I am not sure if Coicc actually had frame names but if they did some one will be along soon who does. the first thing I would do with that is giving it a sponge bath and good rinse. the a good coat of a nice paste auto wax to make her shine.
yes as Aron says build it with period Campi (or anything will be pricy) but it will be alot of fun. look through the ISO trade section and oyu can find most of what you need. and don't forget about Campi Victory and Triomphe. not the greatest stuff but sometimes you can get good deals on it.
yes as Aron says build it with period Campi (or anything will be pricy) but it will be alot of fun. look through the ISO trade section and oyu can find most of what you need. and don't forget about Campi Victory and Triomphe. not the greatest stuff but sometimes you can get good deals on it.
08-08-10, 07:52 AM
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Period correct has its place.
For some of these frames though, why not bring up the performance a notch or three?
I just noticed a 10 speed Campy Chorus gruppo for about $550 (asking) on the Serotta forum.
I think it even comes with the Campy cable set.
Add a nice wheelset, such as an Open Pro/Record combo, and this baby would rock.
I betcha' someone here has a nice Cinelli stem/bar combo they'll sell you.
Add a San Marco Regal and some white Fizik tape and you'd be ready to go....
Looks like a nice, well loved frameset!
For some of these frames though, why not bring up the performance a notch or three?
I just noticed a 10 speed Campy Chorus gruppo for about $550 (asking) on the Serotta forum.
I think it even comes with the Campy cable set.
Add a nice wheelset, such as an Open Pro/Record combo, and this baby would rock.
I betcha' someone here has a nice Cinelli stem/bar combo they'll sell you.
Add a San Marco Regal and some white Fizik tape and you'd be ready to go....
Looks like a nice, well loved frameset!
08-08-10, 08:10 AM
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here you go instant bike 'kit' you do need a correct Italian BB and a quill stem adaptor. otherwise here is a complete 600 30spd kit for $900 https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...rvus_al_xi.htm
I mentioned the Victory because if the OP has a choice of looking at the frame while trying to collect good condition and even 'pantographed' SR and NR parts he could likely be riding the bike in few months with a Victory parts.
however his best bet may be just buying a early '90s bike from ebay and stripping the kit to build this and see if he even likes the ride or if it fits.
I mentioned the Victory because if the OP has a choice of looking at the frame while trying to collect good condition and even 'pantographed' SR and NR parts he could likely be riding the bike in few months with a Victory parts.
however his best bet may be just buying a early '90s bike from ebay and stripping the kit to build this and see if he even likes the ride or if it fits.
__________________
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
08-08-10, 08:23 AM
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here you go instant bike 'kit' you do need a correct Italian BB and a quill stem adaptor. otherwise here is a complete 600 30spd kit for $900 https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...rvus_al_xi.htm
I mentioned the Victory because if the OP has a choice of looking at the frame while trying to collect good condition and even 'pantographed' SR and NR parts he could likely be riding the bike in few months with a Victory parts.
however his best bet may be just buying a early '90s bike from ebay and stripping the kit to build this and see if he even likes the ride or if it fits.
I mentioned the Victory because if the OP has a choice of looking at the frame while trying to collect good condition and even 'pantographed' SR and NR parts he could likely be riding the bike in few months with a Victory parts.
however his best bet may be just buying a early '90s bike from ebay and stripping the kit to build this and see if he even likes the ride or if it fits.
He ended up beating a new gruppo price by hundreds.
I don't know if they still carry Campy, but that Ultegra gruppo BG mentioned offers fabulous performance.
So many options.
Looks like fun.
08-08-10, 09:11 AM
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Only by virtue of Campagnolo's positioning of the groups in their lineup, and the resulting snobbery associated with it.
A mint Victory group can hold its own against C-Record if displayed properly.
Back to the OP's Ciocc: Make absolutely sure that Veloce-type Campag BB will pull out of the frame without issue. They're known for seizing if not pre-greased.
-Kurt
A mint Victory group can hold its own against C-Record if displayed properly.
Back to the OP's Ciocc: Make absolutely sure that Veloce-type Campag BB will pull out of the frame without issue. They're known for seizing if not pre-greased.
-Kurt
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08-08-10, 09:42 AM
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Campy drop-outs: check
Columbus tubing: check
Internal brake cable bosses: check
Minimal braze-ons and plenty of chrome: check
Looks like you got yourself a nice bike!
Columbus tubing: check
Internal brake cable bosses: check
Minimal braze-ons and plenty of chrome: check
Looks like you got yourself a nice bike!
08-08-10, 10:32 AM
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Only by virtue of Campagnolo's positioning of the groups in their lineup, and the resulting snobbery associated with it.
A mint Victory group can hold its own against C-Record if displayed properly.
Back to the OP's Ciocc: Make absolutely sure that Veloce-type Campag BB will pull out of the frame without issue. They're known for seizing if not pre-greased.
-Kurt
A mint Victory group can hold its own against C-Record if displayed properly.
Back to the OP's Ciocc: Make absolutely sure that Veloce-type Campag BB will pull out of the frame without issue. They're known for seizing if not pre-greased.
-Kurt
08-08-10, 10:43 AM
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Hijack of the day goes to...
no KonAaron your bike is lovely.
There is an old saying with Appalachian Trail hikers:
"Hike you own hike."
It really is kind of American. move the letters around and it works for bikes. I think if you can't build up your frame with expensive parts, but you can ride it as a non period correct frankenbike then more power to all of us bike riders. Some bikes are functional, some are beautiful, some are both. some look like crap and ride like the wind.
no KonAaron your bike is lovely.
There is an old saying with Appalachian Trail hikers:
"Hike you own hike."
It really is kind of American. move the letters around and it works for bikes. I think if you can't build up your frame with expensive parts, but you can ride it as a non period correct frankenbike then more power to all of us bike riders. Some bikes are functional, some are beautiful, some are both. some look like crap and ride like the wind.
08-08-10, 10:46 AM
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I'm sorry if that's how it seemed...he wanted to know what parts to use and I thought I was showing him.
08-08-10, 11:00 AM
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Only by virtue of Campagnolo's positioning of the groups in their lineup, and the resulting snobbery associated with it.
A mint Victory group can hold its own against C-Record if displayed properly.
Back to the OP's Ciocc: Make absolutely sure that Veloce-type Campag BB will pull out of the frame without issue. They're known for seizing if not pre-greased. -Kurt
A mint Victory group can hold its own against C-Record if displayed properly.
Back to the OP's Ciocc: Make absolutely sure that Veloce-type Campag BB will pull out of the frame without issue. They're known for seizing if not pre-greased. -Kurt
PS oh yes I do I can't seem to find a 172.5 crankset
I agree, at first I thought I was looking at before and after pics!
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
08-08-10, 11:02 AM
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am i the only one that thinks there's a fairly serious dent at the entry of the rear internal cable hole?
the chipped paint line seems to curve inward. beautiful frame by the way, i've always had something for red/chrome bikes, yum.
the chipped paint line seems to curve inward. beautiful frame by the way, i've always had something for red/chrome bikes, yum.
Last edited by shnibop; 08-08-10 at 11:10 AM.
08-08-10, 11:03 AM
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I understand, and agree with, what you're saying...but I also think having a bike like this is partially snobbery, so I think having the right snobby group is the appropriate group. If you aren't going to use the "right" snobby group, use the best price/function ratio you can find...and I think that's a 5 years old (or so) 105 group...or something like it. The Chorus suggestion by GoMango is fantastic.
I know what you mean though.
I have a complete Campy Gran Sport gruppo on my Zullo Sprint. I had some buddies over yesterday after our ride for a beer or two.
They were looking at the bike, and giving her complements, until my buddy Tommy spoke up and said ditch the GS. Put on the Super Record pronto he asserted.
.....and he's right!
The Sprint was available in two trim levels: Gran Sport and Super Record
These bikes deserve the appropriate and best components within financial reason.
Certainly the same is true for the OP's CIOCC.
08-08-10, 11:53 AM
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I know he didn't...he's a good guy from what I've seen. I just felt like a jerk because I wasn't trying to do that. I'm really not much of a net person and I might be rusty on etiquette. Thanks for the compliment btw! I'm certainly no match for many on here in the beautiful bikes department, but I like what I have. If any of you want to see a tongue dropping drool collection...check out citoyen's stable. I've never seen anything like it. I especially like the Massi.
08-08-10, 12:20 PM
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OH you may be right but is that an entry or exit hole? *giggle*
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“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
“One morning you wake up, the girl is gone, the bikes are gone, all that's left behind is a pair of old tires and a tube of tubular glue, all squeezed out"
Sugar "Kane" Kowalczyk
08-08-10, 06:20 PM
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Wow! Thanks for all the responses and advice! Thanks Aaron for the pictures, what a beauty! I will be referring to your bike a lot in the coming weeks. Super/Nuovo/C-Record sounds like good advice. I definitely share Bianchigirll and DBW's philosophy about riding being better then waiting. She obviously isn't a show bike so I'm free to get plenty of non-NOS gear. Thank you Cuda for the BB heads up! Looks like I'll be getting some tools too, haha. Shnibop, I see what you mean, it's a trick of the light thankfully, the TT is not dented.
I thought I saw a collection of Ciocc catalogues on DVD a few weeks ago but it was $20 and I figured I could find the info for free elsewhere. Well I couldn't and now I can't seem to find the DVD either. Does anyone have any ideas? I'd really love to narrow down the year she was built. How many gears and what sizes would you guys advise? I'll be road riding around Los Angeles mainly. Racing is not in the cards anytime soon. What do you think about an Oxalic acid bath to stem the rust creep? Weather isn't really an issue here but I'd like to be as protective as possible.
Thank you guys again!!
I thought I saw a collection of Ciocc catalogues on DVD a few weeks ago but it was $20 and I figured I could find the info for free elsewhere. Well I couldn't and now I can't seem to find the DVD either. Does anyone have any ideas? I'd really love to narrow down the year she was built. How many gears and what sizes would you guys advise? I'll be road riding around Los Angeles mainly. Racing is not in the cards anytime soon. What do you think about an Oxalic acid bath to stem the rust creep? Weather isn't really an issue here but I'd like to be as protective as possible.
Thank you guys again!!
08-09-10, 02:32 AM
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Don't feel bad, I fell in love with a Ciocc some 25 years ago, and that obsession has never left me. They are very desirable indeed. I'd first focus on stemming any further finish damage. Then think of the build up later. Ciocc are, IMHO, performance oriented first. If it's to be ridden, go with any reliable drivetrain, a great set of wheels, and ride her.
+1 on going modern. A NOS 10 speed Centaur group would look great and perform just as well as Record or Chorus.
+1 on going modern. A NOS 10 speed Centaur group would look great and perform just as well as Record or Chorus.
08-09-10, 04:25 AM
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Don't feel bad, I fell in love with a Ciocc some 25 years ago, and that obsession has never left me. They are very desirable indeed. I'd first focus on stemming any further finish damage. Then think of the build up later. Ciocc are, IMHO, performance oriented first. If it's to be ridden, go with any reliable drivetrain, a great set of wheels, and ride her.
+1 on going modern. A NOS 10 speed Centaur group would look great and perform just as well as Record or Chorus.
+1 on going modern. A NOS 10 speed Centaur group would look great and perform just as well as Record or Chorus.
Probably right about Centaur. I have 2009 Centaur on a bike or two, and it does perform beautifully as well.
I bought the 10 speed Chorus gruppo from a friend at a great price, so that may be influencing my interest.
Last edited by gomango; 08-09-10 at 07:54 AM.