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  1. #1
    @$#!?&!!$ junkfoodjunkie's Avatar
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    Colnago ID help for a friend

    A friend of mine just picked up a Colnago and I am not real familiar with them.
    It has a full Shimano 600ex (minus the levers) non index shifting on it so that would peg the group from around 84-86 (I realize I can nail down exact dates with components.) I am assuming that the frame is from the same period, but not 100%.
    If anyone could help with model, year, tubing, etc I would appreciate it.
    The bike is beautiful and looks like it has been well cared for. It is a keeper for him, just trying to find some info on it.













    Thanks,
    Jake

  2. #2
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    84 iirc
    1987 Centurion Ironman Master. Originally with 600EX SIS. Now with 2011 105.
    1980 Schwinn Le Tour SS
    1980 Fuji Royale: Sturmey Archer AW/Super Champion 27"

  3. #3
    vjp
    vjp is offline
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    It looks like it is mid/later 80's, there are date codes on all of the Shimano components which should give you a general indication. Colnago built bikes 58cm (CTT) and larger from SP (in this era, before SLX, etc.) and smaller from SL.

    vjp

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    Quote Originally Posted by junkfoodjunkie View Post
    A friend of mine just picked up a Colnago and I am not real familiar with them.
    It has a full Shimano 600ex (minus the levers) non index shifting on it so that would peg the group from around 84-86 (I realize I can nail down exact dates with components.) I am assuming that the frame is from the same period, but not 100%.
    If anyone could help with model, year, tubing, etc I would appreciate it.
    The bike is beautiful and looks like it has been well cared for. It is a keeper for him, I am just trying to find some info on it.













    Thanks,
    Jake
    Hi Jake,

    I'm on the iPhone, so I can't get decent pic size.

    Not a Master/Olympic/Masterlight/MasterExtraLight. No Gilco.

    Looks like my son's Super though. Little newer than his.

    I'll look again later when I am on a full size screen.

    Absolutely beautiful bike at any rate. Congrats of course to your friend.
    Last edited by gomango; 08-08-10 at 11:45 AM.

  5. #5
    @$#!?&!!$ junkfoodjunkie's Avatar
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    Thanks for the replies so far. If anyone has anything to add feel free.

    Thanks again,
    Jake

  6. #6
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    I had an 84 Trek 600 with thatgroup on it, and by 85, shimano had a slant parallelogram
    1987 Centurion Ironman Master. Originally with 600EX SIS. Now with 2011 105.
    1980 Schwinn Le Tour SS
    1980 Fuji Royale: Sturmey Archer AW/Super Champion 27"

  7. #7
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    From CR:
    Outlined below is the most comprehensive (to date) Colnago Super timeline
    beginning in ~1969 and going up through the mid/late 70's. There are still
    numerous blanks and some conflicting thoughts - all are presented below.
    I've done the best I could based on all the snippets of info provided so
    please, no flames if you disagree or if I got something wrong; a simple note
    to me with your info will get it added/included to the info below. I will
    update the list and send out as appropriate. Also, do keep in mind that
    "dates" are subject to variation, no one believes that Colnago made these
    changes on January 1st of each new year and therefore use them as a guide to
    the year of manufacture or availability.

    Keep in mind that this is not definitive and is based solely on the inputs
    from numerous list members with varying degrees of experience and/or
    ownership (original owner vs. subsequent owner, restorers, and enthusiasts
    like me that have been looking at them for years but still await the right
    one to come along).

    A few CR members have wrote to advise that the standard production bikes
    were fairly consistent but that Colnago's could be special-ordered at any
    time and thus could include any number of details that might seem
    atypical... graphics, custom paint, chrome, etc.

    Lugs:
    1969: Cutouts in all 3 lugs, all clubs are the same size. Note however that
    one experienced member recalls differently "I've never seen a Super with
    cutouts all the same size. That would be physically impossible anyway,
    based on the sizes of the lug tangs."
    1970: Cutouts in all 3 lugs, but club in bottom head lug is now larger than
    the other lugs.
    1971: Cutouts in all 3 lugs, but club in bottom head lug is now larger than
    the other lugs.
    1972: 3 lugs cutout, all same size.
    1973: 3 lugs cutout, all same size. There is general consensus on this too
    but note again that an experienced member believes the single cut-out came
    earlier; may have been as early as 1972.
    1974: Cutout in bottom headlug only.
    1975: Cutout in bottom headlug only.
    General comments: the "fluffier/bulbous" club cutouts appear on the earlier
    bikes. The smaller/leaner cutouts began to show up, give or take, sometime
    after 1975.

    Fork Crown:
    1969: Two holes in each side of crown, crown itself is a sand cast type
    crown. Some may also have Vagner forged crown, two holes in sides.
    1970: First use of investment cast semi-sloping crown, two holes in each
    side.
    1971: IC crown, two holes in each side of crown
    1972: IC crown, two holes in sides and club in top of each side of crown for
    the first time.
    1973: IC crown, club on top of each side of crown.
    1974: IC crown, club in top of each side of crown.
    1975: IC crown, club and "COLNAGO" on top of each side of crown. There were
    numerous contributions supporting this but again, a experienced member took
    the time to write "this is too early for the *Colnago* in the crown. I
    think that came in by 1977 or so. The first generation Mexico's had no
    "Colnago" in the crown, and their first year was 1975...earliest possible
    year for the Colnago stamp in the crown would be 1976, but I'm betting it
    was later than that.

    Fork Tangs:
    1969: Fork tangs are blank.
    1970: Fork tang can be blank and a wide tang as opposed to the typical
    narrower ones.
    1971: Often blank narrow tangs.
    1972: Narrow tangs with two holes, upper hole larger than lower hole.
    1973: Some narrow tangs with two holes but now usually with club in them.
    1974: Tangs with clubs.
    1975: Tangs with clubs

    Seat Stay Caps:
    Years??: Plain fluted, ??" length
    Years??: Plain fluted, ??" length (I think the length changed)
    Years:??: Fluted with "COLNAGO" cast along the flute length.

    Rear Brake Bridge:
    Years??: Round tube w/brazed on washer (facing the brake caliper),
    reinforced at seat stays, for nutted brake bolts.
    Years??: Round with square/cube area that accepts recessed brake bolt, (did
    this have a club in the top?).

    Bottom Bracket:
    1969: Circular drilled holes pattern in BB shell.
    1970: Club cutout in BB shell.
    1972: Club cutout in BB shell.
    1973: Club cutout in BB shell.
    1974: Club cutout in BB shell.
    1975: Club cutout in BB shell.

    Drop-out's:
    1974/75: Sometime between '74 & '75 there should be a change from long
    Campag drop-outs to the shorter ones.

    Braze On's:
    197? & earlier: none except chain stay derailleur cable stop
    197? - 197?: Above plus over BB cable guides
    197? - 197?: Above plus shift lever mounts
    197? - 197?: Above plus one set DT water bottle mounts
    19?? - 19??: Above plus ST water bottle mounts
    1976/77: Above plus first appearance of two TT brake cable guides (note that
    the "Colnago" cast into the fork crowns definitely happened before the
    addition of TT brake cable braze-ons).

    Decals:
    1968/69: The playing-card-style decals appeared on frames imported to North
    America in 1968 or 1969.
    1969: Playing card graphics.
    1970: Playing card decals?
    1971: Playing card graphics?
    1972: Graphics change, now just Colnago on DT and first appearance of head
    decal just a club with Colnago underneath.
    1973: First appearance of "wreath" decal on seat tube, between the bands.
    1975: Another graphics change?
    1977/78: Another graphics change?

    Chrome:
    Generally the Colnago crowns are chromed.
    General comments: Sometimes the dropouts are chromed on these early bikes.
    This varies. Head-lugs were chromed sometimes also, nearly always on show
    bikes..but not confined to them.

    Known Original Standard Colors:
    1972/73: Turquoise/baby blue
    Early/mid 70's: Candy green, candy red, candy blue, Molteni orange, yellow,
    mauve metallic, black, silver, white, pearl white, electric blue,
    salmon-metallic (similar to Cinelli Rose, but lighter), light purple
    metallic.
    General comments: some wrote to advise you could get a Colnago painted
    nearly any color you can imagine.

    Known variations:
    With Colnago in the earlier years there are a few slight variations
    possible, mainly in the fork tangs. One list member has a '74 with no fork
    tangs at all. He also had a '74 that had a club in the
    bottom headlug and the SEAT lug only, none in top headlug (he suspects a
    stray leftover cutout seat lug). Another member also knows of an original
    '72 track bike with road blades in a Vagner crown and no chrome. Finally
    two list members have/had ~1975 frames where the crowns were painted, not
    chromed.

    Mexico notes:
    Early first-generation Mexico's looked just like older Supers, except for
    the thinner tubing.

    COLNAGO DATING

    To the subject of clubs on decals and clubs cut into lugs...

    Ernesto Colnago has stated that the inspiration for changing his logo
    to the Ace of Clubs was the result of Michele Dancelli winning the
    '70 Milano-San Remo for Molteni while riding a Colnago. "La
    Primavera" (the spring) is the nickname for Milan-San Remo and the
    Ace of Clubs represents the spring flowers.

    Steven Maasland previously elaborated about the club/flower tie in:
    "The 'asso di fiore' is correctly translated as 'ace of clubs',
    however there is also a double entendre in Italian that is lost here
    as 'Fiore' is also 'flower', the symbol of the San Remo area. After
    the San Remo race win, Colnago spoke to the very well-known Italian
    sports reporter, Bruno Raschi, who was preparing his race report.
    He came up with the saying that the 'in fiore' bike won the race.
    This was a play on the fact that the race known for the 'riviera dei
    fiori' (flower coast) as well as 'in fiore' (flowering or blooming).
    That particular race win was very important for Italian cycling
    because it was the first San Remo race won by an Italian in many
    years, hence the 'flowering' part in the 'flower' race."

    Okay, so that would explain the "playing card" club logo decals used
    later in 1970, but what about Colnagos built before that date with
    the same club shape cut in the lugs?

    It has been mentioned before that the club cut in the lugs of the
    Colnago Super was a tribute to Gloria where Ernesto Colnago first
    apprenticed at 13 years of age and worked for almost a decade.
    Gloria used a large lily at the sides of the lugs and bottom bracket;
    the three petals of the club echo the three petals of the lily.

    Here's the latest version of the frame dating (some dates plus or
    minus a year):

    =====================================
    Colnago Super Frame Dating (10.14.07)
    =====================================

    1968 -- First Super(?)
    1968 -- Fork crown (sand cast) with two holes in each side
    1968 -- Fork tangs wide, no cutouts
    1968 -- Club cutouts in all three lugs
    1968 -- Bottom bracket shell with drilled holes (eight in circle plus
    one in center)
    ----
    1970 -- Fork crown (investment cast semi-sloping) with two holes in
    each side
    1970 -- "Playing card" club decal graphics (inspired by 1970 Milano-
    San Remo victory)
    ----
    1971 -- Fork crown with clubs in top and two holes in each side
    1971 -- Fork tangs narrow, no cutouts (or rarely no tangs)
    1971 -- Club cutouts in all three lugs but club in lower head lug is
    now larger
    1971 -- Bottom bracket shell with club cutout
    ----
    1972 -- Club/COLNAGO decal on head tube/seat tube (two seat tube
    Worlds bands) and COLNAGO on down tube
    1972 -- Fork tangs with two holes (or very rarely three holes tangs
    or no tangs)
    1972 -- Cable guide braze-ons top of bottom bracket shell
    1972 -- Water bottle braze-ons on downtube
    ----
    1973 -- Wreath seat tube decal with Worlds band at top and bottom
    1973 -- Fork crown with clubs on top but no holes in each side
    1973 -- Fork tangs with club cutouts (or rarely two hole tangs or no
    tangs)
    1973 -- Club cutout in lower head lug only
    ----
    1974 -- Shifter braze-ons on down tube (option before this)
    ----
    1975 -- Vertical COLNAGO seat tube decal with diagonal Worlds band at
    top
    ----
    1976 -- Fork crown with COLNAGO added to clubs on top
    1976 -- Short Campagnolo or COLNAGO dropouts
    ----
    1977 -- Top tube cable guide braze-ons (option before this)
    ----
    1978 -- Fork crown for recessed brake bolt with shallow triangles cut
    into back
    1978 -- Brake bridge for recessed brake bolt
    ----
    1980 -- Fluted seat stay caps engraved COLNAGO and straight seat
    stays (no longer biconical)
    1980 -- Brake bridge with cast square boss for recessed brake bolt
    ----
    1981 -- Chain stay bridge is small spool shape (no longer tube)
    ----
    1982 -- Chain stays stamped COLNAGO on sides
    1982 -- Cable routing on underside of bottom bracket
    ----
    1983 -- Aerodynamic fork crown

    NOTE:
    Dates are plus or minus one year; changes in frame details might have
    occurred the end of one year or the beginning of the next for example
    or may have been offered as an option before becoming standard.
    Paint schemes, panels, decals and chrome varied according to how
    importers spec'd their frames, so this all varied considerably and
    there are lots of anomalies. ALL CORRECTIONS WELCOMED AND ENCOURAGED!

    Chuck Schmidt
    South Pasadena
    California
    USA

  8. #8
    Bianchi Goddess Bianchigirll's Avatar
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    ^^ that's a mouth full. beautiful bike.
    Bianchis '87 Sport SX, '90 Proto (2), '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '88 Trofeo SOLd, '86 Volpe, '89 Axis SOLD, '79 Mixte SOLD, '99 Mega Pro XL Ti SOLD, '97 Ti Megatube, , '90 something Vento 603,

    Others but still loved,; '80 RIGI, '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '86 Bertoni (sold), '09 Motobecane SS, '98 Hetchins M.O., '09 K2 Mainframe SOLD, '89 Trek 2000, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape

  9. #9
    Senior Member Drillium Dude's Avatar
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    83 or 84, probably what was know in the catalogs at the time as a 'Nuovo Mexico' going by the decal set. I have one in gold with all the same frame details except mine has the 'creased' top and down tubes. Dead giveaways as to this being a later frame are of course the braze-on for the front derailleur and I guarantee the clover cutout in the BB shell has a flat-bottom to the clover vice the earlier pointed-bottom. Are the under-BB cable guides two separate peg-like additions?

    This is a great-riding frame, and of course it's one of the first Colnagos with lots of chrome. However, I have to say this sure looks like a repaint; if I remember correctly, in the early 80s Colnago was doing fades and even the 'onion bag' crosshatch, but I don't recall any kind of paint trasition/masking of the kind presented here.

    Just my 2 cents. I bet your friend will get a bang out of riding this bike, though. I know I do!

  10. #10
    Senior Member SJX426's Avatar
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    I don't know the definitive relationship in the line up of Supers to Superissimo. As I have a 1983 of the later I can make some observations, right or wrong, about the comparison.
    The major differneces I have noticed of the Supers is that they typically do not have chrome head lugs. they do have chromed chain and seat stays or just chain stay. My Superissimo has the chrome head lugs and in fact the front of the frame is chrome as paint hear the shifters has flaked of with chrome under it. The fork is all chrome with the legs painted. So it looks just like the one in your pictures but painted with exposed chrome on the crown and DO's. My chain stays and DO's are chrome as well ,even though they are painted. The seat stay caps are flat with "Colnago" stamped in them as are the chain stays.
    The BB has the clover cut out with the flat bottom.
    My rear brake bridge looks the same but does not have the Ace of Clubs stamped. It is just plain.
    My chain stay bridge is identical.
    The cable rounting under the BB are braze on's however the BB is exposed to the FD cable as it does not wrap far enough. I have seen variations of the braze on's
    Mine is a solid color.
    So I believe it may be a1984 or later version. The multicolor schemes came later in the 80's. I would like to see a pictorial timeline of the paint options from year to year of the late 70's to 90.
    Here is a picture of my bike before I changed a few things and just after cleaning it up. It was nearly original and was purchased in Boulder:

    http://s985.photobucket.com/albums/a...0Up%20Colnago/

    So my file was too big! Go to the above site if interested.

  11. #11
    @$#!?&!!$ junkfoodjunkie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
    This is a great-riding frame, and of course it's one of the first Colnagos with lots of chrome. However, I have to say this sure looks like a repaint; if I remember correctly, in the early 80s Colnago was doing fades and even the 'onion bag' crosshatch, but I don't recall any kind of paint trasition/masking of the kind presented here.
    The bike is in Europe which may explain an unfamiliar paint job, or it may not. Thanks for the input Drillium Dude, and thanks for the cross post from CR OFG, very helpful.

    Jake

  12. #12
    Senior Member Drillium Dude's Avatar
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    Jake,

    That could very well explain the different paint job for sure. I do know that over the past months on Ebay, this particular decal set mated to frames with very similar build specifics seemed to be out of Belgium and the Netherlands. Perhaps it was something done for a specific market.

    Nevertheless, this is an outstanding frame and well worth keeping - as it appears your friend intends to. Smart guy!

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