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  1. #1
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    Opinion needed on PX-10.

    Found a pretty nice PX-10 on CL today but there is some question about if the fork is bent or not. I don't think I'd pay the kind of money this guy is asking in the first place, but I figured some of you PX-10 experts could give me a little education about the proper rake and spacing on a bike like this.

    http://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst...937187812.html

  2. #2
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    Its $250 over priced.

    The fork may be OK but if the seller knows camera angles come into play why hasnt he re-shot the pics? And those pics are bad anyways. His presentation is poor. the bars should be level and the seat should be level and ~1" above the bars. The FD is whacked too.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  3. #3
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  4. #4
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    The bike looks complete and as far as one can see original. It would be good to see everything a LOT better, with much higher resolution pictures shot from better angles. The paint is pretty much intact.

    One problem that may be minor is that the front derailleur cage is not sitting correctly.

    The frame seems to be a later '70s geometry - it doesn't, even from the non-favorable "high lens" perspective, have that laid back look that the earlier 73/73/higher rake design does, from the late '60s and very early '70s.

    What's really a challenge is to be prepared for the unknown problems: stuck or otherwise trashed seatpost, worn-out headset cups, worn wheel bearing cups or cones, worn Stronglight sprocket teeth or BB, or worn out freewheel. Replacing the chain will be zero issue, but replacing the French-threaded freewheel with a known good French-threaded freewheel could be a significant hassle. Even straightening the fork, if it does prove to be bent, is not such a big deal once you find a good frames guy to do the work.

    $250? Maybe. It IS a gamble, but if everything is ok, it's a lot of bike for the price.

    The tubulars are a minor detail. If they hold air, ride them. If they don't, either learn to fix them or get some cheap Yellow Jersey replacements (not that I'm interested in starting another sew-up war!). Converting to clinchers might have a lot of implications that could really affect the original feel and look of the bike.

    You DO have the chance to experience a nearly-original if not fully-original PX-10 - not all of us get that opportunity.

  5. #5
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    LOL! Gonna have that damn song going thru my head for a couple of days now!

    Quote Originally Posted by miamijim View Post

  6. #6
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    Good input Road but I seriously doubt I'll make an offer on it. I've got a 76 Grand Record that is giving me all the French-threaded hassles I can handle right now, it's a great bike, but that old French stuff is a real pain in the ass to replace.

  7. #7
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    I sold a '67 PX-10 a few weeks ago for $500, and I thought it was fairly priced. This bike may have better paint, but is newer. Mine had all the original parts, except the rims had been swapped for clinchers. BTW, US market PX-10's came with English freewheels as far as I know, so should be easy to replace.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Road Fan View Post
    The bike looks complete and as far as one can see original. It would be good to see everything a LOT better, with much higher resolution pictures shot from better angles. The paint is pretty much intact.

    One problem that may be minor is that the front derailleur cage is not sitting correctly.

    The frame seems to be a later '70s geometry - it doesn't, even from the non-favorable "high lens" perspective, have that laid back look that the earlier 73/73/higher rake design does, from the late '60s and very early '70s.

    What's really a challenge is to be prepared for the unknown problems: stuck or otherwise trashed seatpost, worn-out headset cups, worn wheel bearing cups or cones, worn Stronglight sprocket teeth or BB, or worn out freewheel. Replacing the chain will be zero issue, but replacing the French-threaded freewheel with a known good French-threaded freewheel could be a significant hassle. Even straightening the fork, if it does prove to be bent, is not such a big deal once you find a good frames guy to do the work.

    $250? Maybe. It IS a gamble, but if everything is ok, it's a lot of bike for the price.

    The tubulars are a minor detail. If they hold air, ride them. If they don't, either learn to fix them or get some cheap Yellow Jersey replacements (not that I'm interested in starting another sew-up war!). Converting to clinchers might have a lot of implications that could really affect the original feel and look of the bike.

    You DO have the chance to experience a nearly-original if not fully-original PX-10 - not all of us get that opportunity.
    I've been into French bikes since the seventies and I've never encountered a French-threaded hub. I've never had much trouble finding parts, either.

    The bike in question is not $250. Jim said that the asking price is $250 high.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    I've been into French bikes since the seventies and I've never encountered a French-threaded hub. I've never had much trouble finding parts, either.

    The bike in question is not $250. Jim said that the asking price is $250 high.

    Sorry, misread about the price.

    Regarding freewheels, there's no doubt that the French freewheel threading standard is different from the much more common English or BSC, nor that matching hubs were used on at least some marques. Whether the difference is big enough to be concerned about or not, is a matter of opinion. You go your way. I prefer not to risk damaging the threads on my original wheels from a PX-10, and I wouldn't counsel anyone else to do so if I wouldn't.

    Great news for you on the parts. My results have not been so good. You really should not assume that your own experience is universal. Granted, I should have said "What really can be a challenge ..." rather than "What's really a challenge ..."

  10. #10
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    It's not a matter of opinion because it's not possible to use a standard freewheel on a French hub.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    It's not a matter of opinion because it's not possible to use a standard freewheel on a French hub.
    I may have mistyped, but I was not trying to say that one could use a french threaded freewheel on a BSC threaded hub, rather the opposite. The PX-10 in my recollection came with French-threaded Normandy Luxe rear hubs and a freewheel with a matching French thread. If the chain or freewheel are worn on this bike, the freewheel will probably have to be replaced. That would require the OP to search for a French-threaded freewheel, or for a suitable substitute wheel with BSC threading.

  12. #12
    Fat Guy on a Little Bike KonAaron Snake's Avatar
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    Except for playing that song, I agree with Jim. Ebay price on PX-10s like that rarely goes much over $500. If it were me, and I really wanted a PX-10, I'd consider paying more, but not over $600.

    PX-10s really aren't that rare or hard to find...it just seems like a lot of their owners have an erroneous idea of their value and it takes them awhile to understand they don't have a Paramount or Raleigh Professional.
    Last edited by KonAaron Snake; 09-06-10 at 01:17 PM.

  13. #13
    Senior Member miamijim's Avatar
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    My 1982 PH12 had a French threaded freewheel and hub.

    KonAaron: PX10's are plentifull enough where its worth it for a buyer to take his time and wait for one in 100% or close to 100% condition. They seem to be selling for $4-500 in good condition.
    WWW.CYCLESPEUGEOT.COM 2005 Pinarello Dogma; 1991 Paramount PDG 70 Mtb; 1976? AD Vent Noir; 1989 LeMond Maillot Juane F&F; 1993? Basso GAP F&F; 1989 Terry Symmetry; 2003 Trek 4700 Mtb; 1983 Vitus 979

  14. #14
    Senior Member TheManSuit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miamijim View Post

    I surely don't know what I'm watching, but this is spontaneous enough to make my day much better, haha.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Grand Bois's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Grand Bois
    It's not a matter of opinion because it's not possible to use a standard freewheel on a French hub.


    I may have mistyped, but I was not trying to say that one could use a french threaded freewheel on a BSC threaded hub, rather the opposite. The PX-10 in my recollection came with French-threaded Normandy Luxe rear hubs and a freewheel with a matching French thread. If the chain or freewheel are worn on this bike, the freewheel will probably have to be replaced. That would require the OP to search for a French-threaded freewheel, or for a suitable substitute wheel with BSC threading.

    I think you misread rather than mistyped.

    You can't use a BSC threaded freewheel on a French threaded hub either. It will be loose and it will ruin the hub threads. If you force a French freewheel on a BSC threaded hub. it will also ruin the hub threads. As I said, it's not a matter of opinion because it just won't work.

  16. #16
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    While the seller is correct about the distortional abilities of photos, his tone is a total turn off and knocks at least a hundred bucks of the price of the bike-- he comes across as a complete jerk, and unless it's a bargain, I limit my dealings with such people. He'll likely be difficult to deal with in the event of unadvertised problems, so I would take special care in looking over any bike I bought from him. This includes taking along a straight edge to get a real good look at the fork.

    I don't mind gentle CL corrections, but "moron" and "dumb" don't fit that description.

    The hundred bucks, BTW, is in addition to Jim's earlier markdown. The large size and later manufacture limits price even more; 400-500$ would be about right IMO.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

    Waste your money! Buy my comic book!

  17. #17
    )) <> (( illwafer's Avatar
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    flagged it. maybe itll help drive the price down

  18. #18
    Vello Kombi, baby Poguemahone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by name calling CL seller
    Eddy Merckx rode a PX-10 to victory in the Tour de France
    Er, no. Eddy Merckx rode a PX10, and he won the Tour de France, but not on a PX10. Eddy's Tour victories came after he left the Peugeot team. I believe Eddy's first TDF victory was in 1969, and his last year with Peugeot was 1967. I believe he was with Faema in 1969, prolly riding Masis (Peugeot team-mate Tom Simpson introduced him to Masis). Or maybe De Rosas or Colnagos, both of which Merckx rode at one time or another IIRC.

    I also hate it when sellers make stuff up to help sell their stuff, but that's the way of the world, I suppose. I'm sorry, but this seller bugs me.

    And I like PX10s.
    "It's always darkest right before it goes completely black"

    Waste your money! Buy my comic book!

  19. #19
    Senior Member Road Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Bois View Post
    Originally Posted by Grand Bois
    It's not a matter of opinion because it's not possible to use a standard freewheel on a French hub.


    I may have mistyped, but I was not trying to say that one could use a french threaded freewheel on a BSC threaded hub, rather the opposite. The PX-10 in my recollection came with French-threaded Normandy Luxe rear hubs and a freewheel with a matching French thread. If the chain or freewheel are worn on this bike, the freewheel will probably have to be replaced. That would require the OP to search for a French-threaded freewheel, or for a suitable substitute wheel with BSC threading.

    I think you misread rather than mistyped.

    You can't use a BSC threaded freewheel on a French threaded hub either. It will be loose and it will ruin the hub threads. If you force a French freewheel on a BSC threaded hub. it will also ruin the hub threads. As I said, it's not a matter of opinion because it just won't work.
    sheesh, I think I agreed already.

  20. #20
    aka Tom Reingold noglider's Avatar
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    I didn't even read the seller's text. The photos and the condition of the bike demonstrate his arrogance.
    You don't read my signature anyway, do you?

    Tom Reingold, noglider@pobox.com
    Residences: West Village, New York City and High Falls, NY
    Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog

  21. #21
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    Oh he's arrogant alright. I sent an email about the condition of the forks and he did nothing but belittle me and say that he's sold half a dozen PX-10's for no less than $600. Think I'll just leave this one alone.
    Thanks for all the info guy's!

  22. #22
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    I know the seller of the PX10. He is a total doucebag. I've spoken to him a few times and on one occasion he was a no show to buy a bike from me that I pulled from CL at his request. He exists to p*ss people off. I have this fantasy wherein he pisses off Kurt and Jim and gets his ass handed to him.

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