WalksOn2Wheels

And make me feel better about myself.

Ok, so I have an 87/88 Specialized Sirrus. Last winter, I gave it a good overhaul including a paint job and some new parts. I probably threw a good 200 bucks at it. I bought the thing for 200 bucks around 02/03. clearly, this bike would, at best, command 300 dollars on CL or ebay which would put me 100 bucks in the hole already.

And NOW I'm thinking about keeping an eye out for a nice modern groupset to put on it. I'm commuting with it now and remembering how much I love the bike, but some brifters would be nice.

So what I want to know is what's the most amount of money you've "lost" on a bike during a build? Meaning what it would technically be worth whole vs. how much you've put into it. At what point do you consider yourself insane?

auchencrow

I don't think you can count hang-on parts as part of the insanity equation - they can always be transferred to another ride when you sell or sold separately.

If I am wrong about that, I am guilty, especially on my more humble bikes, like my Pug p4, which I've upgraded with new wheels, Nitto bars, and an Avocet saddle -which together (or even separately) are worth more than the bike.

I agree though that most re-paint jobs are economic UN-sound. - No way to get that money back.

Zaphod Beeblebrox 

Here's my money pit.


Cost me 125 or so about 4 years ago. As a frame I figure its worth $100, as a fully built bike I can't see myself selling it for more than $200

Here's the damage:
$150 Strip & Repaint by local Auto Body Shop
$200 worth of Spokes/Rims/Hubs/Gears (not including tires)
$150 in the TA Crankset
$100 Brooks Flyer Saddle
$200 worth of accessories and assorted bits: Rack, Fenders, Brake Levers, Barcons, Leather Bar Wrap

I'm deeeeep in the hole, but I'd never sell this bike as-is. When i'm done with this frameset it'll get sold with its headset and BB and nothing else and I'll move all the other stuff to another bike.
I don't feel like money spent on nice components is ever "Irrecoverable"...and I don't ever feel like something is "Too Nice" for any bike....you won't lose much if you just move it to another bike.

In my mind the only money I've really thrown down the hole on this bike is the cost of the repaint. Everything else can be used on something else in the future.
Am I sane? No. However I have received $150 worth of enjoyment out of this frame over the last couple of years.

wrk101

+1 Parts can and should come off before any resale. If I build up a personal bike, usually the value of the finished bike does not cover my "investment". But by removing my parts, I can have have recouped my investment plus a little extra.

Even if I get a score on the components (lowering my build up cost quite a bit), I treat the economics differently. I look at what the components would bring on the open market as their value, as I could use them myself, or sell them and enjoy the return of some money. So even if I get the components for $20, if they are worth $200, I am foregoing the $200 return by using them myself.

I cap my investment at no more than what a new entry level road bike sells for, and I cap my fleet at six bikes. I am getting close on a couple of bikes...

A quality repaint = money lost in my book. At some point, it may be required as maintenance on a keeper bike. But I will not get any of that money back.

Six keeper bikes = insane, so I am there regardless.

atmdad

Hummmmm

Early '80s Schwinn World Tourist bike on CL - $20

New bits and pieces - $140 ()

Taking frame in to LBS to get FFS BB cups removed because I didn't have the right tool - A dose of good natured ridicule from the wrench at said LBS

Having a smooth riding cruiser for grocery getting and spending quality time with my kids - Pricele....... Oh Damn, who am I kidding. Guilty as charged.

My odds of winning the lottery are probably better than getting $50 for it. Although it really does ride nice and serves the purpose for what I intended it for, so it's got that going for it.

There are a few pics over in this thread Show us your Frankenbikes, before I mounted a basket and rack.

CardiacKid

I have 2 kinds of bikes, those I plan on selling some day and those I plan on passing to my kids, either to use or as collectors items. The bikes in the former category, I keep records to determine profit or loss. The bikes in the latter group have no paper trail. I confess I have sunk about $450 into a Raleigh Sport, but I will deny it if ever asked by any family members.

JunkYardBike

If you've been consistently riding it for 7 years, that $200 has more than paid for itself. That's like 8 cents a day! I say if you love the frame and use the bike regularly, and plan to ride it for another 7 years, it's definitely worth the upgrade.

What?!?!?! I bet you could get at least $400 for it, maybe as much as $500 from the right buyer. Still puts you in the hole, but I guarantee there are people who would appreciate that build.

bigbossman 

I don't lose money on bikes.

tugrul

+1

Flipping is the only place to be concerned with losing money. Otherwise you are stuck trying to quantify your time with the bike, which hopefully isn't a simple matter of utility

Oldpeddaller

Auchen, I totally agree if you have to get someone else to paint it. If you can do it yourself and also make your own decals, the cost can be less than one decent tyre. With paint and thinners (hard gloss enamel) bought in bulk on clearance, ditto wire wool and paint stripper, a road frame costs me about £12 to refinish and say two sheets of water slide decal paper, printer ink and clear acrylic enamel, £15 in total. However if the original paint is even half decent and there is no rust under it then it's better not to paint IMHO.

rat fink

Neither do I, really. However, if my bikes were to be sold complete, I wouldn't get even half their part-for-part value. Observe:

KonAaron Snake 

I have two bikes where if I sold them as is, I'd probably lose cash...both are because I set them up with new and high end accessories.

My Koga Miyata -

About $330 for the frame
Campy aero post I had laying around...worth about $50
Brooks copper rail black saddle...got a steal - $20
parts and wheels - donor bike route - net investment, $250 for 105 STI
brakes - $50
fenders - $80 Honjos
Racks - stainless steel tubus - $325
Lights - $75
Misc. - $30
Removing rusted screw - $75
Tires - $70

All told - near $1300, which I probably couldn't sell it for

Raleigh Intl.

Bike and shipping - $400
tires - $70
NR levers - $50 w/hoods
GB Stem - $10
GB veloux bars - impulse buy - $70
fenders - $80
brooks saddle laying around - worth about $50
Misc. - $40
Silca - $25

Total - around $800 - I MIGHT be able to get that back, probably not

khatfull

I've not yet lost money on a flip.

My Fuji Tiara, I'm actually positive on. I paid about $150 (shipped, eBay) for the bike, but got donor parts from two bikes that I paid $50 and $50 for and flipped after for $375 and $275 respectively. I bought a crankset and pricey(er) hoods from foreign eBay sellers but monetarily I'm still way, WAY ahead on that bike.

My Fuji Touring Series III I paid about $200 shipped (shipped, eBay) for the bike, IIRC have put about $150 in tires, supplies, and needed items converting it back to drop bars from flat. Still I'm happy with how much I've spent for what I've "created"

I don't yet have so much into a bike that I have to say, "WTH did I do THAT for?"...probably because I don't have a penchant for very expensive components, shop at co-ops as much as possible, etc. I do try to do my builds as inexpensively as possible 1) because I enjoy the "chase" and 2) I'm not rich by any means. Please don't equate that paradigm with "cheap" as much as "conservation of capital"

Ask me this question again when I'm done putting together the Fuji America I'm currently reassembling...while I have been very fortunate on the parts front (which will be detailed in it's "presentation" thread) it still has been a very trying build for various reasons. While I'm sure I'll be completely ecstatic about the bike it might leave me wondering "why!?".

Sixty Fiver

When I do sell bikes I base the price on the parts used and the frame so usually make out okay and won't be losing money.

My 1999 Trek 7500's original parts are the frame and fork... have surrounded that with handbuilt wheels, first gen xtr canti brakes and levers, and a bunch of much better than stock parts.

If I was to sell it I would keep the brakes, levers, and wheel set as their value is far beyond that of the rest of the bike and more wheel and brakes than most people need.

Ex Pres 

I could never get close to selling my single speed for what I have in it.

Prices from memory & approximate
531db frame + refinishing - I'll assign $100
all carbon fork $80 (new)
expander plug $10 (new)
GC gold brake calipers $25
Modolo gold levers $20 (new)
AME hoods $10 (new)
FSA carbon crank+BB $150 (new)
Takagi gold chainring $20 (new)
Black SS chainring bolts ? (new)
SS freewheel $15 (new)
Regina ORO 50 gold/black chain $30 (new)
Thomson seatpost $70 (new)
Edge gold carbon saddle $90 (new)
AC micro58 ft hub $50 (new)
AC rear hub $30
Velocity rims $95 (new)
Black db spokes $40 (new)
Gold ano nipples $10 (new)
CC headset $25 (new)
Ritchey stem $10
Profile bullhorn bars $15 (new)
cotton tape + plugs + shellac $12
rim strips & tubes $10
nice tires $60 (on sale)
brake housing + cables $8 (new)
gold ano aluminum crank bolts $6 (new)
Gary Fisher gold ano bottle cages $6
Gold ano alum bottle cage bolts ?

anyone for a $1000 single speed, pimped out in gold and black?
Didn't think so.

But it's one of my favorite rides.
Someone would have to offer me that much before I'd even think about selling it.

auchencrow

If you can still honestly say that you are still ahead of the game.

mickey85

Well, so far on the Fuji Palisade, I'm up to about $300 not including the $125 Brooks B17N, on the Nishiki Modulus, it would be $250 (minus the $100 purchase price), on the Cannondale...the cost of tires and cables? The UO-8 is probably up there - $50 for a fixed wheelset, $24 for the cog, $100 for the B17, $40 for the tires, $20 for a donor bike with the crankset and BB. I'm sure there's money there I'm not thinking of. That and the Fuji are probably the biggest black holes. That said, since the UO-8 is a fixie, it would probably go for $200 or so on CL, minus the Brooks saddle.

Michael Angelo 

My Red and white Le tour. I easily put $400-$500 into rebuilding/restoring. I did it only cause I am going to keep it.Also, I may install a tubus rack, only so I can go shopping at the French bakery on Sunday Mornings for Breakfast items.

Mike

Dylansbob 

I try not to paint anything I'm even considering someday selling but then I like the "patina of use". That saves alot of "overhead". Other than that, parts are meant to be switched around. I just sold an '80s 531 Falcon. It originally came with 105 6spd, which I sold off for what I paid for the bike. To sell it as a rider, I slapped on a Light-Action drivetrain that was originally on my wife's bike. Unless it's doing a major downgrade, I almost always cherry-pick parts off of anything I'm going to sell. Ideally I try to cover the cost of the bike by selling off two or three parts that I can replace for less.

mickey85

Dylansbob, I'm sure that you've already thought through this, but I thought I'd let you know:

After about 1,000 miles, I've decided that the new Shimano Tourney derailers are really good pieces. They work perfectly, and match 80's frames pretty well. I have them front and back on my Fuji Palisade, and they're a steal at about $10 a pop, available with both hangers and not.

IMO, if you're flipping bikes and want to hang on to the better vintage parts, that would be the way to go. And all for $20.

WalksOn2Wheels

Ok, you've got me convinced. Now let me let you talk to my wife....

In reality, I'd love to update it as I've really enjoyed the frame, but I put a lot of effort into it's current setup about a year ago, so I think I better run that into the ground for another couple of years and then get after it with some modern parts. For now, I guess I'll keep a wishlist and keep my eyes peeled on ebay. I'm thinking go all out and piece together some dura-ace parts over the next couple of years.

mapleleafs-13 

so around july 1, canada day i picked up this beast.....:



Originally it came with the frame, wheels, brakes, and drop bars and front and rear derailleaurs, a carbon fiber seat (the whole top seat was carbon fiber no padding, looked really cool but hurt like a ***** when riding. and a really crappy seat post.

The bike had been repainted and the paint job was really nice, so maybe that's a reason for me buying the bike. It needed, downtube shifters, a new seat and seat post, cables, and a few other things when i looking it over quickly.

I went to a local bike shop to get a proper seat post, he ordered it, it came in and well it was the wrong size, i got impatient cause i really wanted a seat post to use to bike and take it for a spin, at the time it was not fully complete, anyways, ended up ordering one online off ebay. a week later got even more impatient, so i went into the LBS to look for the cheapest post before mine came in, bought an off colored blue one.


Put the seat post on and rode it for about a week.

Ordered brakes online for the bianchi, got some nice carbon fiber looking brakes, thought it would match well cause the wraps have a carbon fibre pattern plus the water bottle holder was carbon fibre, so over all it would match the scheme, brakes were pricy though, 100 bucks total with shipping.

After about a week I noticed an odd thing about the bike. it kept leaning to one side when i was riding it with no hands, took it to another LBS and found out the fork was bent, plus the fork was not for 700c wheels, hence is why it didn't have a front brake at the time. So i brought it into a LBS and had them replace the fork and put on the current brakes i bought.

So after they replaced the fork they said that the brakes i brought wouldn't work with the bike cause of the reach and angle, i i bought a pair off of them. Now i was even more frustrated cause i paid so much for brakes, when i brought it home, after about 2 hours of fiddling i got the ones i bought to work, with some bending and mcgyvering. Last time i take it to that bike shop, long story short.

after the 2nd week of having it i noticed the BB wasn't super smooth, ended up replacing that whole unit. Oh yea it also need brake levers.

got a nice campy crank for 30 bucks, but i forgot that campy cranks need campy bb's, so this is where i am today, i think i've given up on the bike.

I've probably spent around $650 and i'm not even done yet., i think i'm just gonna downgrade the bike and sell it at this point, kinda getting sick of seeing it around.

Basically i've never had a bike give me sooooo many issues.

haven't even bothered working on this bike for a month now.

I've just been enjoying my current bike, my pinarello.

I'm so glad i got such a deal on my current pinarello, picked it up about 3 weeks after with a nice shimano 105 groupset for a price that would knock your socks off. I don't want to tell you guys how much i paid for it, cause everyone on the forum would hate me

cyclotoine

I still don't understand why people sell framesets with the BB. Is it just because it's a consumable part? Chances are the new owner is going to have to change it anyway so why not keep it?

I would loose a ton of money on many of my personal bikes, but that is because I ride a lot of new equipment. I just bought a 2002 Marin Treviso frame to replace my 2000 Marin Treviso frame (a significant upgrade IMO) and I'll sell the old one with the 1" Easton EC90sl fork and loose money on it, but I road and enjoyed the frame for 2 seasons so I don't feel I've lost anything. If I were to sell my touring bike, my sport touring, my fixed gear (which is in piece right now) my cross bike, or my grocery getter I'd loose money on all of them, so I intend to get my money back from the miles of enjoyment.

Ratfink, I like your style!

funkflex

Exactly. If I were to sell off all of my bikes, I would make substantially more than I spent. I just look for the best possible deal at all times.

rccardr 

I've easily got more than $1200 sunk into each of my personal riders, but don't look at them as investments. Bikes I intend to sell, sure.

But personal bikes are like...tools. And I deserve the best tools I can afford because I don't intend to sell them to somebody else.

If a better tool comes along, the former one goes to the next owner in somewhat...different garb.