noel_

I was bored at work and saw this for pretty cheap and bought it. Mostly because of the Ishiwata tubing.

frpax

Pretty dang cool!

unworthy1

not a brand we see a lot of, but I've seen a few. This looks like a nice frame and made from 022 ain't shabby at all...but seems to be TWO tubing stickers: there's another above the shop's decal/serial number. What's that one say?

auchencrow

Hi Noel -

Great buy. It was Maruishi's top-of-the-line racing style bike being offered at the time. Here is a catalog but apparently not the same year as yours.

IMO, Ishiwata 022 is the most desirable variant. I've had a couple of mid 80's Maruishi's and can attest they were good bikes - as good as any Japanese Marque at the time, though not so well known. (I still have my TA18).

Build it up with some good stuff, and enjoy.

- And keep us posted,

noel_

This one?

unworthy1

yeah, well it just "says it again in another way"...no reason to doubt that it's genuine 022, anyway enjoy the build and the ride. I'm sure T-Mar may have more details once he sees this thread. Looks like the Roadace RX-7 in auchencrow's catalog was a Tange-main-tube frame and used 27" wheels, have you tried wheels in yours, yet?

noel_

Not yet, i just bought it today. I think mine may be a bit newer than the one in the catalog.

BlankCrows

Maruishi used those generic looking tubing stickers for a number of years in the 1980's. I had the RX-7 shown in that catalog with a similar sticker to the one above. Per the catalog it was Tange DB tubing, but there wasn't a Tange sticker on the frame. The OP's frame I think is a later 1980's job. With the Ishiwata sticker on it, I think the generic looking sticker was not necessary to have on there, but was probably put on because the factory had plenty of those stickers in inventory.

Noel_, does the fork crown have Kangaroos on it?

kuso

definitely hard to find something like that around here. nice frame!

noel_

The first picture is the best one of the fork the seller has, it doesn't look like it.

BlankCrows

That first image didn't load when I was in the thread before. It doesn't look like they are on there.

randyjawa 

I picked up this BRC Road Ace 707 this summer. Though I am not interested in restoring the bicycle, it appears to be quite original and does have the proper fork set.

The bike is fitted with Shimano 600 Arabesque components. The frame set is chrome moly, sporting the same decal as that found on yours. The forged drops are Suntour, with adjusters in the rears. And the rust is genuine Canadian issue.

Hope this is a help.

RoadAce_707_Derail.jpg RoadAce_707_Full_S.jpg RoadAce_707_HeadBa&.jpg

RoadAce_707_Brake_.jpg.

Hope this is a help.

T-Mar

Unfortunately, there are very Maruishi in my database. However, based on what I know about serial number formats, in conjunction with the top mounted shifter boss, the frameset could be either 1982 or 1986.

I believe the Ishiwata 022 label is a red herring, applied by a previous owner. The generic tubest decal is indicative of the style used by Maruishi and note that it soes not say "butted", like the one in the catalog. It's almost certainly plain gauge main tubes with hi-tensile stays and forks. The OP can verify this by determining the proper seat post size.

Back to the age, a plain gauge tubeset favours 1982. While the the top mounted shifters are correct for either year, this is only a sports/touring model and these features tended to trickle down, making a 1986 more likely. Finally, while two tone paint jobs are period correct for either year, a contrasting fork is more indicative of 1986. However, I'm not entirely comfortable with the fork. Maybe it's the pic, but the color doesn't seem to quite match the head tube. Also, it's curious that it has what appears to be two sets of eyelets, while the rear dropouts only have one set. To discern which is the proper year, the OP should verfiy the crankset date code against the data on the components page of the Vintage-trek website.

auchencrow

I too suspect the Ishi label was indeed applied by the owner, but I would venture that it does not preclude the possibility that it is in fact Ishiwata.

E.g.; My TA18 is undoubtedly Ishi 022 (as spec'd in the catalog for my model), yet it carries no Ishi lable - just a generic, "dbl butted" Cr Mo label instead.
The seat post BTW is 26.6.
If your RX7 is not 26.6, then I think that would cause more doubt than the label itself. (It seems Maruishi was not so brand-conscious.)

Also - as T-mar infers, the fork may not be original. I would have expected to see a couple of gold-colored kangaroo's on the fork crowns myself, but seeing that your bike is a different vintage than mine (no "M"over-red-ball head tube logo) I can't really be certain.

unworthy1

The bikes I have owned with 022 tubing all used 27.0 seat posts, at least that's AFAI can recall. I still have one in the stable and that's the size it takes.

T-Mar

If the 26.6mm post is the correct size, then your frame may not be Ishiwata 022, despite what the catalog states. Ishiwata 022 used a single butted 0.9/0.6mm seat tube. For a 28.6mm outer diameter, the theoretical post size would be 27.4mm (i.e. 28.6 - 0.6 - 0.6 = 27.4mm) Of course, for clearance, a 27.2mm post is typically used. At, 0.6mm undersize, a 26.6mm post would result in a binder slot that would be almost pinched closed.

Of course, if the tube was installed upside down, with the 0.9 butt at the top, then a 26.6mm post would be correct (i.e. 28.6mm -0.9 - 0.9 = 26.8mm).

The other possibilities are a different grade of Ishiwata or one of the various Tange tubesets.

RobbieTunes

Quote:

Bored at work so I bought this Maruishi frameset, anybody have anymore info? T-Mar?

You can come here and be bored, have everthing shipped right to my office....nice find.

beech333

I was under the impression that some, if not all, butted Ishiwata tubing was installed in this way. Although this is a little off topic, the Fuji Design Series(019 tubing) uses a 26.8 seatpost, as seen on the catalog page here. I would think it is logical to assume that the 022 tubing would be done the same way. I cannot think of a single 70's - mid 80's steel Fuji with a seatpost bigger than 26.8, although some used 022 tubing.

T-Mar

Why would a builder want to install the the thicker end of a seat tube at the top? You want the thicker, stronger end of the tube at the bottom bracket to resist the peadlinging torque.

Compare Ishiwata 022 to Columbus SL. They both use a single butted seat tube with the same wall thicknesses. Columbus SL frames use 27.2mm posts, because the thicker, butted end is meant to be used at the bottom bracket shell.

As for Ishiwata 019E, it was an entirely different beast. The seat tube was quad butted, unlike the single butted seat tubes in 017, 019, 022 or 022. It's thicker at the seat tube end than 022.

auchencrow

T-Mar - I am sorry if I misled anyone - I thought I read somewhere that the early 70's Fuji Finest's used Ishiwata tubing - so I measured my '72 Finest, and found the seat post also measured 26.6. I guess then neither manufacturer used Ishiwata 022.

unworthy1

I can't dispute T-Mar's math concerning the size that should be used in a properly installed Ishiwata 022 seat tube (that's installed with the butt-end at the bottom). But I still have this nagging idea that 27.0 is the size that's been typically correct in my limited sampling. The only 022 bike I have at the present is a San Rensho (and I really doubt Yoshi would have brazed a tube in upside-down), that has the original paint and decals including the small "super strong" Ishiwata decal with an elephant. It takes a 27.0 and a 27.2 does NOT fit. According to the published specs that should only work with a 024 seat tube...possible that this frame is made with a mixed set of Ishiwata, but based on the specs of Cyclone Export models it should be 022 or 019, and my assumption is that it's 022 (55cm frame).
A quick scan of Sheldon brown's seat post database for anything with 27.0 shows mainly steel frame Asian-made Mtn. bikes, but a few Ishiwata and Tange road bikes, too. There sure seems to be more variation in seat post size for a given tubing than I would have expected...except for the very reliable 27.2 in nearly all 531 and Columbus SL frames.
"Measure twice...cut once...don't assume"

T-Mar

Fuji was a big consumer of Ishiwata tubing. However, they may not have used any standard tubesets, preferring to have Ishiwata draw tubing to their own specs. A 26.6mm post means the walls would be in the vicinity of 0.9-1.0 mm thick, depending on how much finishing Fuji performed. That's very thick for a seat tube, unless it was plain gauge CrMo or a double seat tube typical of Tange.

As unworthy1 pointed out, there is some variation in post sizes for a given tubeset. Some builders like to ream slightly thicker tubests to match their most commonly used tubeset, in order to have to stock only one post size (i.e. reaming Columbus SP seattubes to SL wall thickness is a fairly common practice). Conversely, some manufacturers do not like the extra expense of finishing a seat tube that may be slightly undersize due to scale or distortion, and simply install an undersize post. However, this is usually on an exception basis. If Fuji typically used 26.6mm posts, the more likely scenario is a custom drawn tubeset or, at least, seat tube.

phoebeisis

So this frame was an Ebay ripoff?
Owners/scammers will buy decals/stickers and slightly distress them to make them look "genuine".

How much did it sell for?
It wouldn't be worth too much scamming effort o for just $150 or so, would it?
What would be the price difference between a straight gauge cromo mainframe, and the fancier DB frame- maybe $50 vs $150 ?? Hardly worth all that scamming effort for just $100?

Checked Ebay- sold for $75+ $50 shipping=$125
So it was maybe $50-$75 overpriced?

BlankCrows

I don't think that the OP's frame is from 1982. Maruishi wasn't using a head tube logo with the Roo on it yet, or that font for their name. My 1985 had regular DT shifter braze-ons (per the catalog none of the 1985's had top mount shifters) so it is more likely that the top mount shifters on this model bike would appear later. I am sure that the rainbow multi-colored logo appeared sometime after the 1985 model year.

My old 1985 RX-7 is here. It had RoadAce written in script which was pretty hard to read.

The name font on this bike was used in the later 1980's and I think into the 1990's.

The serial number for my RX-7 was DP27842.

Before the RX numbers appeared the Sport models had names like 606, 505, etc.

Per the 1985 catalog I have here are the models offered --

SPR - Professional
STC - Competition
STR - Record
STE - Excellence
TA18 - Tourace
TA15 - Tourace
RX7 - Roadace
RX6 - Roadace LM6 - Ladyace (mixte)
RX5 - Roadace LM5 - Ladyace (mixte)
RX4 - Roadace LL4 - Ladyace (not a mixte)
MT18 -Mountace
CT15 - Citiace
CT6 - Citiace CTM6 - Citiace (mixte style)
T6 - Townace TL6 - Townace (not a mixte)
TL3 - Townace (not a mixte)