St33lWh33ls

I purchased this bicycle along with a 51 Paramount and I am trying to find out what year it was manufactured. I did some online research and found that this bicycle was made in Australia by the company Carbine. It has a BSA cottered crankset, GB track bars mounted to a non-adjustable stem, I don’t know about the pedals so included a few photos here, they are labeled “made in France”. The forks are rusted but it appears they were once chromed and the paint is a green metallic which doesn't seem to fit the period but I could be wrong. I know there must be a serial number stamped somewhere but I just can’t find it so any ideas in that department would be much appreciated.

It’s a great old bike and my first inclination was to have it sprayed locally, but the more I mull it over its probably headed to Waterford with the Paramount.

rhm

Australian bikes are famous for hand painted graphics like that. Really cool. Is the paint really that bad that it has to be redone? A lot of us would go to pretty extreme measures to save what's left of that paint. @iab might give you a peek at one of his. This "Carbine" has a lot of character that you could lose.

I'd love to see better photos of both this and your Schwinn. You post much higher resolution pics by hosting them at Picasa or Photobucket or something and just embedding the links here.

St33lWh33ls

Rhm, I plan on pulling the hardware off the bike this weekend at that point I will take some good shots of the frames and post them. I have a place to host pictures, but for some reason the forum was telling me too large when I tried to link with URL. I will place some large ones on my own hosting site and give you some links to them.

The paint on the Carbine is bad, I see that the front fork had chrome on it at one time and looks like it was painted over and now both finishes are flaking off. I can see ghost lines of box striping and other stripes on the frame as well, but they are very faint, almost like they are under the metallic green paint. At the very least I would like to get the folks at Waterford to look at it and see if they can replicate it, if not I have a Calligrapher friend who could paint it on there for me. The red pin striping is pretty heavy handed and looks amateurish, like someone covered or taped off the original text and pull the tape away after a re-spray; of course that’s just my opinion, I don’t know that for certain.

I don’t know if I will get a reply but I sent a message to a museum in Sydney that has a couple Carbines in their collection. I asked if they could provide some photos so that I can attempt to replicate the graphics.

rhm

Sounds good!

When you link to photos hosted elsewhere, note there's a check box with the words "Retrieve remote file and reference locally." Make sure there's no check in the box.

Gary Fountain

Greetings and I'm pleased to see photo's of your Carbine - definitely an iconic Aussie brand. There should be info available on the web and the museum hopefully will respond.

If it was mine, an being Australian, I would do everything possible to keep it as original as possible. I think some of the charm of these old bikes are features such as the obviously hand painted pinstriping etc. I don't think you will find a perfect 90 degree corner, just a couple of lines that intersect. The line widths could widen, symmetrical flourishes aren't really symmetrical, etc, etc. I wonder if the chrome plating was really nickel plating?

One expert I know goes by the internet name of 'bicyclepassion'. He seems to have a bottomless knowledge base of all things Australian when it comes to bikes. I think he still has a bike shop (Bicycle Passion) in a small county town of Bairnsdale, Victoria and you may be able to contact him with your questions. His name is Warren so hopefully this is a good lead.

St33lWh33ls

Hello Gary,

Thanks for the information, I will see if I can find Warren online and shoot him an email.

My intention is to keep the bike as original as possible, I think the bike has already suffered a poor respray years ago. The pin-striping and logo appear as someone tried to preserve them during the respray. I can see the ghost lines of the original pin-striping and they are wonderful, unfortunately the amateurish attempt to preserve some of them are crude. I am going to go over the frame in detail and make note of all the striping I can see and pass the info to Waterford. I just need to see some other bikes of the same vintage so I can replicate the paint details. To be honest the frame is very rusty so I think this one is beyond saving the original paint which I think has been resprayed. The bike was mostly there with the exception of a seat post and saddle so all the original parts will go back on it after restoration.

Gary Fountain

Sorry to read it is in such poor condition. I can understand your intentions a little better now. Best of luck with the preservation.

The fellow I suggested contacting is Warren Meade, he is quite knowledgable on Australian bikes. I don't know his phone number but I did look him up via Bicycle Passion on the internet - an easy search. He is quite an approachable person.

Unfortunately I know little about the Carbine brand but it has always intrigued me.

Best of luck with your search,

Gary.

St33lWh33ls

Gary I did in fact find Warrens email address and sent him an email this morning along with a couple photos of the bike. Thank you so much for the lead, hopefully Warren can help me out.

I did manage to track down a little of the company's history, just love the fact that the company was named after a famous horse. This is going to be a fun restoration.

Gary Fountain

Carbine, winner of the 1890 Melbourne Cup - Australia's premier horse race.



A 1938 Carbine belonging to a friend of mine.

St33lWh33ls

Thanks Gary, that's the first Carbine bicycle I have ever seen not counting mine. I finally found the serial for my bike it was on the track end.

Serial number 4545

Big Block

As Gary suggests, Warren is knowledgeable about old bikes.
There are further sources, Kid Carbine (Chris) and Cludence (Karen). Chris and Karen have specific knowledge of Carbines.
Both were regular forum members on the BNA Retro forum.
However they have not posted for some time.
Karen has replied to my PM's so you will need to join the forum and PM her. If you have problems I can try for you.
Karen has been a poster on another forum so I can search that out if you need it.
Chris, in retirement, did the repair work for a small bicycle shop in the Southern Highlands in New South Wales. They may be able to give you contact details if PM's don't work.
one of Chris' bikes


and another useful resource is Trove. Filter your searching for New South Wales, as I have done in the link, then filter to the likely decade.
Should keep you occupied for a few hours
Philip

St33lWh33ls

Thanks all for your input and information.

Heard back from the museum, they sent me this link.

I am making some progress on the tear down of the Carbine track bike. I got a Bikesmith cotter press and it worked well except I got over zealous on a stuck pin and bent it a bit, but I managed to get it out of there, lots of corrosion on that old BSA crankset. I have everything off but the headset and bottom bracket. I had to order some tools for the job, they are supposed to arrive tomorrow. I think I am in for a battle with the headset but I could be wrong, by the looks of the pin holes this may be a job for a pipe wrench and cheater….but I hope I am wrong. Can anyone shed some light on what exactly is going on here, this is not a conventional headset and I am thinking this is older than a 1950’s vintage bicycle?

Carbine Headset

rhm

Your headset is only a little archaic. My guess is the bike is from the late 30's but I emphasize the word guess.

Take a look at this thread. The nut at the top, as shown in your photo, is basically the same as any top nut except that it has those holes for a pin wrench rather than flats. You may be right about a pipe wrench. Maybe you can cut a pair of wooden jaws to grab it without crushing it? A little heat may help loosen it. Anyway, the next thing down, after the top nut, is also threaded; it holds the top race, which you can't see. The races are merely placed in recesses in the frame and they'll drop out --with lots of tiny little balls-- once you have it loose. Work over a large towel!

St33lWh33ls

Some folks wanted to see larger photos of the bicycle, here are the EBay listing photos...

Carbine01
Carbine02
Carbine03
Carbine04
Carbine05
Carbine06
Carbine07
Carbine08
Carbine09
Carbine10
Carbine11
Carbine12

I am in the process of cleaning all the parts I removed and will post photos before I send them off to be re-plated.

St33lWh33ls

Thanks RHM

Wish I could find some info on the serial number so I can date the bicycle. The serial is either 4345 or 4545, I am hoping it is stamped on the steering tube as well as the track ends so I will know for sure.

NOW YOU TELL ME!

Just kidding, The Paramount has the same setup and I pulled that apart this past weekend. Placed an old towel under it to keep bearings from flying to all parts of the shop.

QuangVuong

I have both Karen's contact number and email. If you'd like to contact her through email, PM me and I'll pass it on.

St33lWh33ls

Hello QuangVuong,

I need 50 post before I can PM someone. If you could send her a brief email and a link to this thread I would much appreciate it.

Thank you,
Ken

Big Block

not necessarily
my fathers bike, which the frame was constructed in 1948 only 50 miles away from where the Carbines were made had, as its original colour this blue, found after removing the race for the bottom headset bearing. It did have a very small metallic flake. I took the fork to a paint supplier to match the paint.

I would be guided by what you find under the same bearing.

it also has the identical headset to your Carbine.

Before I tackle any dismantling, I repeated apply Penetrene, a penetrating oil, over a week. Then I try to dismantle.

Nice work QV with having Karen's contact.
Once you establish a date you can then determine whether it was a chrome or nickel finish on the parts.
Philip

QuangVuong

I will PM you then. You can still receive PMs but not reply yet. Good luck

Philip, it's a coincidence I found her. It was actually through Gumtree, then I find that she is only a few suburbs away. Probably the biggest collection of bike bits in her garage.

rhm

Incidentally, Ken, I want to thank you for posting this photo

I had a bike (recently sold) made by New York builder Alvin Drysdale that came with its original receipt, dated June 30 1954, which specified "Vanzone Rims." I knew he had misspelled it, but not knowing the correct spelling I couldn't figure it out. VIANZONE, now I got it. Little by little, I'm learning this stuff....

St33lWh33ls

Thanks for that info Big Block. I wonder if they were doing a type of candy like vintage guitars where they would use a base coat of silver or gold and then a top coat of a thinned tint color. Maybe what I thought was a chromed fork that was painted over was in fact a base coat silver and a tint coat green.

Carbine Fork

St33lWh33ls

Thanks QuangVuong, I sent Karen an email and referenced this thread, I hope she has time to respond.

St33lWh33ls

Well I am hooked on this stuff now, I spent some time cleaning parts and trying to identify what everything is, you can certainly go down a rabbit hole and lose track of time. I spent about 4 hours tracking down info on different hubs, and between the two bikes I had three different manufacturers, Bayliss Wiley, Harden, and Schwinn. This forum is an excellent resource for a stone cold beginner like me. Again, I would like to thank everyone for helping out.

Ken

rhm

Yes indeed! I don't know about Australia, but what you describe was common in GB and called "flambouyant" (i have a Norman from the early fifties, red tint over silver base, looks good but it's orange now), and common in Italy where it was called "chromovelato" (often done over chrome rather than silver paint; pretty but not tough). Raleigh did something similar with a black enamel base coat (looked great but didn't hold up).

Big Block

Mercian Cycles do this process
but Dad remembers ordering his with a metallic paint, and very detailed box-lining, feathers, scrolls. Not Dad's bike, but one from the same painter, and from 1952, not 1948. Gives you an idea of the detail.

There are extensive resources for parts from this period. I suggest after you have dismantled the components, you get some well focused and well lit photos and we can have some fun in identifying them for you.