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Old 11-13-10, 04:37 AM   #1
JohnSqual
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Alan and a Ciocc: what to do with them?

Hey,

I found these two bikes recently, and I'm looking for a bit of advice.

The Alan is in pretty good condition, no cracks anywhere. Some cosmetic scratches on the tubes, though.

It has a full shimano 600 group.

Am wondering whether to leave the yellow Van Eyck decals on there. Sort of a nice link to the bike's past (Van Eyck is a bike shop in Belgium). Or maybe do it up with the proper decals? I think it will be a rewarding resto, not too much work.

The "ciocc" (the dirty white one) is giving me more trouble. It's got some ugly rust spots, the seat post is stuck and the paint is cracked behind the head tube lugs. The frame doesn't seem bent and the cracks don't seem deep, though.

It doesn't have any serial numbers or marks apart from the frame size.

OTOH is has some features that suggest it is (was) decent quality: gipiemme dropouts and brake bridge, those little diamonds on the bidon holder, and a wooden plug in the fork under the steerer tube (something italian builders did, I believe). Oh, and an Italian threaded bottom bracket.

I'm puzzled by this one: is it another candidate for "mystery Belg-Italian steel" (please not another one...)? Is it worth working on, given the problems mentioned?

Thanks for reading and looking, and for any comments.

John
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Last edited by JohnSqual; 11-13-10 at 04:38 AM. Reason: not clear
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Old 11-13-10, 05:37 AM   #2
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The Ciocc looks like it has some front end crash damage as indicated by the rippled paint/rust behind the head lugs. Do you have a full side on shot of this bike?
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Old 11-13-10, 06:03 AM   #3
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I'd leave the Van Eyck decals on there.
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Old 11-13-10, 06:04 AM   #4
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Thanks, here's a shot of the full frame.
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Old 11-13-10, 06:23 AM   #5
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It is difficult to tell about the possible frame damage. I would be wary of the Ciocc, unless you have frame straightening skills. As for the ALAN, I have one and I love mine. I built it up with full Shimano 600 also. It is the lightest bicycle in my collection.

ALAN_Build_1_Bridge_Full_TQF_1..jpg
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Old 11-13-10, 06:33 AM   #6
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Hey RandJawa,

Oof, that is stunning. I love the way the aluminium polishes up on the lugs and forks, very pleasing to do. Is the paint scheme original, or did you have it redone?
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Old 11-13-10, 06:48 AM   #7
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The Ciocc doesn't look particularly bent in the photo but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't. I say if it doesn't look weird with a fork and wheels, it's probably not bent enough to worry about. If the angles are obviously wrong or if the front wheel is too close to the downtube, find a framebuilder or a good bike shop. And that's if the tubes aren't cracked - that's fairly rare, but I've seen it (on an otherwise okay looking frame/fork).

I take it you didn't get the fork with that one? Perhaps because it was bent?
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Old 11-13-10, 07:12 AM   #8
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I would simply clean the Alan and enjoy it. maybe get the decal that was used at the top of the seat tube and put it on the bottom area of the DT. now the fork....

as for Coicc, I kind of agree any damage may be very slight. if you have fork install it then measure the wheel base and angles and use the straight edge on the headtube /fork to see if it looks straight. I don't know what you have into it but I am sure some other C&V might give a few schekles for it
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Old 11-13-10, 08:44 AM   #9
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you also need to check if headtube is not damaged for ciocc.
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Old 11-13-10, 09:50 AM   #10
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I to have an ALAN and really enjoy it's ride qualities. It's quite comfortable with the ability to soak-up the bumps and the geometry is still responsive. I would describe the geometry as being neutral.

Does your ALAN have a steel front fork or is it an aluminium fork with the forkcrown that matches the frame lugs?

As for the name on the frame - I'm in favour of the 'original' Belgian decals but, on the other hand, I can't see much wrong with a set of ALAN decals either.

Best of luck with these two projects,

Gary.
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Old 11-13-10, 01:34 PM   #11
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Hello everyone,

Many thanks for all the replies.

Cinco, I put the fork it came with on, doesn't look too bad to me (see photo).

Bianchigirll: Head tube angle is about 70; the fork seems about the same. Wheelbase is 100cm.

Sokito: Only visible damage to the headtube is the chip in the paint. I can't see any bulges in the headtube.

I was bothered about the cracks in the top and down tube paint because of the various horror stories about this. Seems hard to judge:
some people freak out about damage that looks much less serious, while others would contemplate fixing things that look much worse to
me.

Gary: The Alan has an aluminium fork. Does this help date the bike, do you know? I've only taken it for a very short ride, but I like it so far.

Anyway, thanks again,

John
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Old 11-13-10, 01:54 PM   #12
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I'll still not committ 100% to it, but that just doesn't look bent to me. It could very well be simply that the paint is of a more brittle variety than usual. If it were in a minor collision those are some of the spots at which the frame would flex and it's possible that's all that happened - the frame flexed, but didn't move past the elastic limit, and the paint cracked at the points which moved the most. I once straightened some serious damage in the same area in which the tubes bent far enough to ripple them on the undersides and the paint just flexed, both during the initial bend and while I was bending things back. I suppose if something like that can happen without a single bit of damage to the paint, the reverse is possible as well.
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Old 11-13-10, 02:16 PM   #13
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Cinco,

I think the paint is either old or of poor quality, since it's chipped in a few places.
I guess this'll need a respray at some point anyway - if a sprayer finds a crack or something after shot-blasting the frame back to the bare metal, would I still
have to pay the full costs of the repaint, do you think?

BTW, any ideas how old this is? I've got some campy parts from mid-70's I could eventually put on it.

Cheers,

John
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Old 11-13-10, 02:40 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSqual View Post
...if a sprayer finds a crack or something after shot-blasting the frame back to the bare metal, would I still
have to pay the full costs of the repaint, do you think?
If the shop is even halfway honest they'd stop and call you when they noticed a problem like that. Assuming they noticed it at all. A crack would probably show up as a black line amidst the even grey of the blasted finish. I really doubt there are any structural problems with that frame but you could ask them to keep an eye out. There's no such thing as being too careful or too observant.

I'm good with French, Japanese, and American bikes but I don't really know anything specific about Italian stuff. I can say, however, that if the brakes are nutted it's probably 1970s/early-'80s and if they're recessed-mount it's probably later '80s.
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Old 11-13-10, 03:23 PM   #15
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the Ciocc may be an Aelle-tubed model, based on the lack of a Columbus decal and the Gipiemme DOs and the lugs, so keep that in mind. I'd still work it up as a rider, but not lavish a lot of money on it. It's probably early to mid '80s.
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Old 11-13-10, 05:01 PM   #16
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Hi JohnSqual,

There is probably a date stamped at the top of the seat tube on the RHS. There might also me a Model description as well. I was interested in the fork because I didn't recognise it in the photo.

Gary.
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Old 11-13-10, 05:38 PM   #17
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Quote:
Hey RandJawa,

Oof, that is stunning. I love the way the aluminium polishes up on the lugs and forks, very pleasing to do. Is the paint scheme original, or did you have it redone?
The flat black paint is "as found". Only one decal, was on the bicycle and that one was the sticker the local bike shop attached when the bike was originally sold.
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Old 11-13-10, 05:44 PM   #18
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I'd ride the Cioicc without a second thought, for what it's worth. I like the ALAN a lot, those early aluminum bikes have great looks going for them.
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